Ron Paul On The Record

[cloakmanor]

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Will they grimace after Ron Paul makes a strong second-or-first place showing in the Straw Poll on Saturday?

I look forward to it.
[/quote]

While my support for the Republican nomination is indeed Ron Paul it isn’t necessarily wise to be too overly boastful of any predictions at the coming Iowa straw poll. Keep in mind however that even a somewhat weak showing will not necessarily be indicative of the future. Dr. Paul’s campaign is apparently growing on daily basis.

If, however, on the outside chance that Dr. Paul display a strong showing emerge at the coming Iowa Straw Poll however so much the better.

[lixy]

Jesse Benton, director of communications for Dr. Paul�??s Campaign stated there are now more than 30,000 registered volunteers. In less than one week the Paul Campaign has added and additional 10,000 volunteers. This extraordinary ground swell of support has never been seen in a U.S. Presidential election. No other presidential candidate even comes close to that number of volunteers. The main stream media is showing a clear bias by ignoring this amount of support.

http://www.nationalexpositor.com/index.php?news=230

10,000 in a single week! I know very little about the way US elections are handled but this is quite mind boggling anyway.

[orion]

[quote]vroom wrote:

Freeloaders are those that are not carrying their share of the burden. If that isn’t clear enough… I give up.
[/quote]

Then if they pay for it themselves anyway, why do they need the government to to do it for them? Why do they force me to join?

So, you are saying that the laws of the land, as passed by congress, are not in fact reflective of the will of the people? You need to think a bit harder.

I am saying that this is irrelevant. Some things are out of the question even if the majority wants it.

Remember, democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting what to have for lunch. Freedom is a heavily armed sheep constesting that vote.

This however is part of the moral “baloney”. Like the economics “baloney” you have no answers too.

Most people don’t like paying the taxes they do, but they continue to bear it. Some services are appropriate at the national level, and you will surely agree to that, so the issue is not taxation but instead that you don’t agree with SOME of the taxation that occurs.

Sure, AND I do not agree with sme forms of taxation on a principal level.

[quote]
Where does a government get its “rights” from in a democracy?

Enough baloney. Either do some real and serious thinking on the issues, or end up completely marginalized into obscurity. Crying about things you do not personally like is not very constructive.[/quote]

If a government in a democracy has its rights from the people how come those people seem to be able to transfer more rights to the government than they have themselves?

In essence that leads to two moral standards, one for the government and one for the people and the government has effectively more rights.

This is an evil and corrupt form of moral relativism, if you cannot do unto your neighbour what you would not want to have done unto you, you can allways authorize the governmnet to do it.

PLus, if I try to go deeper why this is foolish on an economic level you ignore it so those “baloney” charges really hurt.

Not.

[orion]

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Mick,

I was watching the Republican debate the other day and thought of you everytime ron paul came on.

You could almost see the other candidates cringe (no nominal not out of fear) in physical revulsion.

It made me laugh to think of all the Rage Against the Machiners hanging on his every word.

I think the guy is literally swinging verbal haymakers. He’s trying to hit a “home run” whenever he opens his mouth.

He seems to be the only true laughingstock on that platform.

However, he did serve one useful purpose: He amused me.

JeffR[/quote]

What you two do not see is the grass roots movement that is forming.

He has the internet, kids who know how to use it, he can get the money, he gets support from the military.

If he even does respectable, it is only a matter of time before another politician takes his chances to tap into that resources and this young, computer-literate people will not become less important in the next 10 years.

This might not be Reagan, but it could be Reagans Goldwater and I do not see anything in the US landscape with the moral conviction or the intellectual foundations to challenge this movement.

They can laugh, they can sneer, they can cringe, but as long as they cannot beat him in a debate they will eventually lose.

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]JeffR wrote:
You could almost see the other candidates cringe (no nominal not out of fear) in physical revulsion.
[/quote]
Romney and Juliani cringed because they like the fact that Americans are wasting their lives and money in a backwards-ass sandbox.

In other words, they were cringing because they don’t get it.

[JeffR]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
You could almost see the other candidates cringe (no nominal not out of fear) in physical revulsion.

Romney and Juliani cringed because they like the fact that Americans are wasting their lives and money in a backwards-ass sandbox.

In other words, they were cringing because they don’t get it.[/quote]

Not even close. They were cringing because the guy is an embarrassment to Republicans.

If you can’t understand that the whole ron paul idea of withdrawing into Fortress America approach is wrong from every angle, I can’t help you.

ron paul’s solution: Pull out. Leave.

That sounds nice to Rage Against the Machiners who yell at their dad for not giving them any attention.

However, the real world doesn’t operate like that. There are consequences to that action that would reach our borders.

As much as ron paul amuses me, I’ll be glad when the fat is trimmed from that stage.

JeffR

[JeffR]

[quote]orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Mick,

I was watching the Republican debate the other day and thought of you everytime ron paul came on.

You could almost see the other candidates cringe (no nominal not out of fear) in physical revulsion.

It made me laugh to think of all the Rage Against the Machiners hanging on his every word.

I think the guy is literally swinging verbal haymakers. He’s trying to hit a “home run” whenever he opens his mouth.

He seems to be the only true laughingstock on that platform.

However, he did serve one useful purpose: He amused me.

JeffR

What you two do not see is the grass roots movement that is forming.

He has the internet, kids who know how to use it, he can get the money, he gets support from the military.

If he even does respectable, it is only a matter of time before another politician takes his chances to tap into that resources and this young, computer-literate people will not become less important in the next 10 years.

This might not be Reagan, but it could be Reagans Goldwater and I do not see anything in the US landscape with the moral conviction or the intellectual foundations to challenge this movement.

They can laugh, they can sneer, they can cringe, but as long as they cannot beat him in a debate they will eventually lose.

[/quote]

BOTA,

I know very well why you support ron paul. If an American President acted like ron paul suggests, you wouldn’t have to be reminded what a inconsequential backwater austria has become.

ron paul would pull us within a shell.

Then you and the other europeans could get back to internecine warfare without any checks. You could propagate your bad behavior without us stopping you.

Further, you could delude yourselves into believing that you have relevance.

There wouldn’t be Americans around to shock you out of your deluded fantasies.

JeffR

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

Giuliani Lover wrote:[quote]

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[ChuckyT]

[quote]orion wrote:

What you two do not see is the grass roots movement that is forming.

He has the internet, kids who know how to use it, he can get the money, he gets support from the military.

If he even does respectable, it is only a matter of time before another politician takes his chances to tap into that resources and this young, computer-literate people will not become less important in the next 10 years.

This might not be Reagan, but it could be Reagans Goldwater and I do not see anything in the US landscape with the moral conviction or the intellectual foundations to challenge this movement.

They can laugh, they can sneer, they can cringe, but as long as they cannot beat him in a debate they will eventually lose.

[/quote]

HOWARD DEAN?

[ChuckyT]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Giuliani Lover wrote:

Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11, Islamic Jihad, TERRORISM, 9/11!!! [/quote]

Hey how’s the whole communist thing working out for you? Making lots of progress?

At least JeffR lives on the same planet as most people.

[vroom]

See, when you put a bit more work into it there’s the possibility of interesting discussion…

[quote]orion wrote:
Then if they pay for it themselves anyway, why do they need the government to to do it for them? Why do they force me to join?[/quote]

Some things are difficult to do unless you have a large collective effort. In their supposed wisdom the populace has deemed some items are important enough to be funded in this way.

Now, honestly, you and I both would agree that far too much has been put on the plate of government, but, in theory, this process is not inappropriate.

[quote]I am saying that this is irrelevant. Some things are out of the question even if the majority wants it.

Remember, democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting what to have for lunch. Freedom is a heavily armed sheep constesting that vote.[/quote]

You have a lot of nice little anecdotes, but they are truly pointless. Freedom is having a constitution that offers guarantees and having a government that respects the constitution.

It doesn’t matter how heavily armed you are, the government has many ways to get you to play ball – including more firepower. Freedom is maintained by those that are strong enough and wise enough to make sure their freedoms are not eroded over time as we are seeing happen now.

Throughout history, freedom has been a fleeting thing. Those in power always want more control. Perhaps the US constitution was the best thing on the planet for a hundred years or more, but it has been ignored and converted into a much less powerful document than it once was by the passage of time and a disinterested populace.

The freedom you speak of is the freedom to overthrow the government when things become so bad that people once again rise up to throw off their shackles. It is nowhere near that state right now.

Sure, AND I do not agree with sme forms of taxation on a principal level.

Once again, you and I will agree here to some degree. I consider income taxes percentage slavery. Unfortunately, I live in and respect the rules of my democratic country, so I am willfully bearing this insult.

I believe in democracy and have a country that works hard to respect rights and freedoms so it is a trade off I make. I might fight against these taxes, but it will be from within and according to the rules outlined in my country. That is my role as a citizen, isn’t it?

[quote]
In essence that leads to two moral standards, one for the government and one for the people and the government has effectively more rights.

This is an evil and corrupt form of moral relativism, if you cannot do unto your neighbour what you would not want to have done unto you, you can allways authorize the governmnet to do it.[/quote]

Please, try to stick to reality a little bit. Power is incredibly subversive and what you are describing is the fact that there are not enough controls on government. What is required is a strengthening of the rights of the populace, the individual, to be protected against the tyranny of the majority.

Get to work on that!

[quote]
PLus, if I try to go deeper why this is foolish on an economic level you ignore it so those “baloney” charges really hurt.

Not.[/quote]

Apparently they do. Getting into wild terminology and ridiculous analogies to attempt to push for some wild overthrow is simply not appropriate to someone that believes in democracy, government and peaceful society. I think you have more anarchy in you than you realize.

You don’t need such ridiculous hyperbole to make your point. You will notice that in many important areas I actually agree with the problems you rail against, but that I can calmly point to rational ways to deal with those issues within the rules of our organized society.

I find a lot of people, perhaps yourself, seem to consider yourself outside of the laws of the land because you weren’t asked if you wish to be part of the country. You had until you were approximately 18 years old to decide if you would respect your country. As an adult, you made your decision by continuing to live within land governed by another.

The fact that there is no ungoverned territory left on the planet has pissed me off from time to time, I do have to admit. I have some anarchy in me as well. Not enough, however, to have me rage against the machine to the point of trying to rip everything apart.

Try looking for some constructive solutions for a change. Your destructive solutions are never going to fly and simply marginalize you from reasonable discussion. I expect you will simply dismiss this, but I am serious.

As a final note, what originally quickly turned me from thoughts of anarchy is the number of assholes on the planet. It is great to carry a gun and think you are a big man when you have no children and family to worry about. However, when you are at work all day and some gang is threatening your wife and children, and you can’t be around to protect them, then society sucks.

Tell me, when there is no government, nobody trying to enforce the rules of a civilized society, how you can keep the packs of dogs from banding together and forcing you to be a part of them? Society will be organized in some fashion, it always has been, and unless human instincts change, it always will be. Current civilized society is out best attempt to date.

Weaknesses include slow government aggregation and abuse of power as well as inappropriate spending and taxation levels. These weaknesses should be overcome… and I am hopeful that they will even if not during my lifetime.

[orion]

[quote]ChuckyT wrote:
orion wrote:

What you two do not see is the grass roots movement that is forming.

He has the internet, kids who know how to use it, he can get the money, he gets support from the military.

If he even does respectable, it is only a matter of time before another politician takes his chances to tap into that resources and this young, computer-literate people will not become less important in the next 10 years.

This might not be Reagan, but it could be Reagans Goldwater and I do not see anything in the US landscape with the moral conviction or the intellectual foundations to challenge this movement.

They can laugh, they can sneer, they can cringe, but as long as they cannot beat him in a debate they will eventually lose.

HOWARD DEAN?
[/quote]

… was a run of the mill Democrat.

I think we have established that Ron Paul is no ordinary Republican.

[billy_martin]

[quote]Rocky101 wrote:
Ron Paul is the only man on both sides who is not owned by Special Interests this why he can speak the truth. I saw something very disturbing on CSPAN yesterday, A senator was discussing how huge tech companies like Microsoft are pouring billions of dollars in Eduaction, not education for American kids f*&k no, they are educating Chinese kids.

Meanwhile our kids have 20 year old books and buildings that are falling down. If a man like Ron Paul is not even thought of as President , then we deserve to live in the 3rd world nation we are becoming. Let’s wake up[/quote]

The only way jobs will start coming back here is when we become the third world nation. Big business is out for themselves, but they don’t realize if we don’t have anything we could revolt and take theirs. THE BOLSHEVEK REVOLUTION WAS ABOUT THE SAME THING…I’M NO COMMUNIST(just an example) BUT EVENTUALLY WE THE PEOPLE NEED TO MAKE A STAND AND SAY NO TO FORIEGN PRODUCTS…NO TO ANYTHING EXCEPT PRODUCT MADE HERE IN THE GOOD OLE USA. QUIT SELLING OUT OUR OWN PEOPLE, ONCE WE HAD PRIDE…WHERE IS IT?

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]ChuckyT wrote:
At least JeffR lives on the same planet as most people.
[/quote]
so what planet does everyone else live on?

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]ChuckyT wrote:
HOWARD DEAN?
[/quote]
Not even the same stage my friend.

[Zap_Branigan]

Ron Paul is a baby elephant

“To maintain our current account deficit we borrow almost $3 billion a day,” he tells me. “It’s unsustainable. It will end. And it’s going to end in a worse fashion than it did in 1979 and 1980, when interest rates went to 21 percent.”

I must not have reacted as he expected, because he presses on. “Nobody seems to care,” he says. “It will slip back into a government run by tyrants, where you can’t go from one state to another – you have to show your papers. It already exists on the airlines.”

I can agree that defict spending will eventually catch up and cause some problems. His second statement about not being allowed to go from state to state makes him sound like a lunatic.

[Zap_Branigan]

More from the Salon article:

In the Speaker’s Lobby, Paul describes the federal airline security system as an extra-constitutional affront to civil liberties, and thinks security should be handled by the private sector. Then he takes a rather un-presidential jab at the appearance of many TSA screeners, a workforce heavily populated by minorities and immigrants.

“We quadrupled the TSA, you know, and hired more people who look more suspicious to me than most Americans who are getting checked,” he says. “Most of them are, well, you know, they just don’t look very American to me. If I’d have been looking, they look suspicious … I mean, a lot of them can’t even speak English, hardly. Not that I’m accusing them of anything, but it’s sort of ironic.”

This is not the first time Paul has veered into potentially insensitive territory. In 1992, a copy of his newsletter, the Ron Paul Survival Report, criticized the judicial system in Washington, D.C., before adding, “I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.”

Under a section headlined “Terrorist Update,” the following sentence ran, “If you have ever been robbed by a black teenaged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be.”

[Zap_Branigan]

And then he backpedaled with this:

These quotations became an issue during Paul’s 1996 campaign for Congress. During the campaign, he declined to distance himself from the statements. But in a 2001 interview with Texas Monthly, he said he had never written or approved those words for his own newsletter.

He said he failed to disavow the words during the campaign on the advice of his political advisors. “They just weren’t my words,” he tells me. “They got in because I wasn’t always there. I didn’t have total control. And I would be on vacations and things got in there that shouldn’t have been.”

[cloakmanor]

It’s unfortunate that whenever all else criticism fails against a given individual, regardless of whoever he or she is, the race card is invariably supplied for the purposes which are probably unnecessary to explicate.

[JustTheFacts]

Ron Paul’s popularity is such that I feel for his safety. I took a little road trip over the weekend and I couldn’t believe the number of Ron Paul signs I saw – the coolest part was that so many were homemade. One guy had a hand painted 10’ or so banner on the roof of his house.

The only problem some people may have in supporting and following Ron Paul is that they may have to go through a mourning period for our “democratic system”, especially with regard to the media. There is no hiding the fact that the media is actively suppressing the Ron Paul phenomenon and EVERY Ron Paul supporter is under no illusion that this is a mere “tin foil hat” theory.

The Iowa Straw Poll should be very interesting

We The People Foundation

To be conducted on Diebold machines – in case you haven’t heard the latest news of the source code review 3 years after the “sour grapes” election…

Diebold Voting Machines Vulnerable to Virus Attack
August 02, 2007
Diebold Election Systems Inc. voting machines are not secure enough to guarantee a trustworthy election, and an attacker with access to a single machine could disrupt or change the outcome of an election using viruses, according to a review of Diebold’s source code.

“The software contains serious design flaws that have led directly to specific vulnerabilities that attackers could exploit to affect election outcomes,” read the University of California at Berkeley report, commissioned by the California Secretary of State as part of a two-month “top-to-bottom” review of electronic voting systems certified for use in California.

The assessment of Diebold’s source code revealed an attacker needs only limited access to compromise an election.

“An attack could plausibly be accomplished by a single skilled individual with temporary access to a single voting machine. The damage could be extensive – malicious code could spread to every voting machine in polling places and to county election servers,” it said…

“A virus could allow an attacker who only had access to a few machines or memory cards, or possibly to only one, to spread malicious software to most, if not all, of a county’s voting machines,” the report said. “Thus, large-scale election fraud in the Diebold system does not necessarily require physical access to a large number of voting machines.”

The report warned that a paper trail of votes cast is not sufficient to guarantee the integrity of an election using the machines. “Malicious code might be able to subtly influence close elections, and it could disrupt elections by causing widespread equipment failure on election day,” it said.

The source-code review went on to warn that commercial antivirus scanners do not offer adequate protection for the voting machines. “They are not designed to detect virally propagating malicious code that targets voting equipment and voting software,” it said.

In conclusion, the report said Diebold’s voting machines had not been designed with security as a priority. “For this reason, the safest way to repair the Diebold system is to reengineer it so that it is secure by design,” it said.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135461-c,onlinesecurity/article.html

Iowa GOP refuses to allow any Validation of Computer results

Iowa Poll made of Straw - Iowa GOP refuses to allow any Validation of...

On a related note:
In Violation of Federal Law, Ohio’s 2004 Presidential Election Records Are Destroyed or Missing
In 56 of Ohio’s 88 counties, ballots and election records from 2004 have been “accidentally” destroyed, despite a federal order to preserve them…
http://www.alternet.org/story/58328/