Ron Paul On The Record

In merely 11 days’ time, we will know what’s what. Not only for RP, but all the rest of them, as well.

This campaign is about to enter the majors.

Pat Buchanan on the “First Preseason Game” of the 2008 Election (it’s Iowa):

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21664

I predict that Rudy will sink low, McCain even lower, Romney will capitalize, and so will the Good Doctor, as the entire “second tier” will categorically drop out of the race and he’ll be bumped up to second or third place (depending on whether you count Fred, who is holding off until Labor Day).

The next debate is this Sunday, August 5, in Des Moines. ABC News will have it.

Better watch.

The idea that government regulation only serves to hinder corporations’ ability to do business, and if the government would stop overseeing and regulating, that these multi-national corporations (who care so very deeply about protecting American consumers’ well-being) would do a better job of policing themselves, is completely laughable. It’s also as utterly batshit crazy and utopian as anything that a stoned hippie could dream up.

Google “debunking Libertarianism” sometime, when you want to do some reading.

There’s a reason Ron Paul is trailing in the polls: most Americans don’t want to get rid of the public school system, the Environmental Protection Agency, Social Security, Medicare, the FDA, the Department of Transportation, the Center for Disease Control, low interest government loans to students and small businesses, and other federal and state programs. People generally don’t want our natural resources sold off to private companies, our national parks to be privately owned, and so on. That’s a fringe viewpoint that gets promoted (and popularized) mainly by right wing think tanks that are funded by millionaires like Richard Mellon Scaife, and multi-national corporations like Exxon.

These folks have a vested interest in privitizing everything: if that happens, they will make an incredible shitload of money.

[quote]Brad61 wrote:
The idea that government regulation only serves to hinder corporations’ ability to do business, and if the government would stop overseeing and regulating, that these multi-national corporations (who care so very deeply about protecting American consumers’ well-being) would do a better job of policing themselves, is completely laughable. It’s also as utterly batshit crazy and utopian as anything that a stoned hippie could dream up.
.[/quote]

Nice strawmen?

Got milk?

[quote]
Google “debunking Libertarianism” sometime, when you want to do some reading.
.[/quote]

Some really bad reading.

Adolescents who figured out what is wrong with libertarianism, finally, after 200 years…

Personal highlight:

Property is theft.

Extra special points for presenting governments as the champions of freedom using documents that were designed to limit governmnents powers!

[quote]

There’s a reason Ron Paul is trailing in the polls: most Americans don’t want to get rid of the public school system, the Environmental Protection Agency, Social Security, Medicare, the FDA, the Department of Transportation, the Center for Disease Control, low interest government loans to students and small businesses, and other federal and state programs.
.[/quote]

Yes, there are a lot of freeloaders out there. So what?

[quote]
People generally don’t want our natural resources sold off to private companies, our national parks to be privately owned, and so on. That’s a fringe viewpoint that gets promoted (and popularized) mainly by right wing think tanks that are funded by millionaires like Richard Mellon Scaife, and multi-national corporations like Exxon.

These folks have a vested interest in privitizing everything: if that happens, they will make an incredible shitload of money
.[/quote]

Thank God people with no vested interest whatsoever guard the status quo fron these evil people!

[quote]Brad61 wrote:
The idea that government regulation only serves to hinder corporations’ ability to do business, and if the government would stop overseeing and regulating, that these multi-national corporations (who care so very deeply about protecting American consumers’ well-being) would do a better job of policing themselves, is completely laughable. It’s also as utterly batshit crazy and utopian as anything that a stoned hippie could dream up.

Google “debunking Libertarianism” sometime, when you want to do some reading.
[/quote]
Yes, you need to do some of your own reading…if you actually understood natural rights you’d have a better understanding of what is “batshit crazy”.

Your government cannot take care of you, fix problems efficiently, or be an enforcer of ethical behavior. Your government can only protect your natural rights–these do not include the right to health care, education, or making sure your feelings aren’t hurt.

When you are defrauded or hurt by another individual (corporations included) you have the right to legal reparations. In other words, we don’t need laws for every little possible contingency that might hurt or defraud someone. Lawyers actually do have a purpose in an absolutely free market economy.

You are either willfully ignorant or lying. Most of those federal departments don’t do anything for the majority of the country and are wastefully inefficient. Could not the individual states enact their own regulations as per the 10th Amendment and leave the federal gov’t out of the process? What business is education on the federal level, for example?

[quote]
These folks have a vested interest in privitizing everything: if that happens, they will make an incredible shitload of money.[/quote]

Yeah, they will make a shitload and maybe employ some people in the process…Imagine them making that shitload fairly without the government patting them on the back in the process. Revolutionary don’t you think?

Profits are not inherently bad because they help the market “understand” what people want–they become bad when governments, as they sometimes unintentionally do, allow monopolies to flourish because of the restrictions and regulations they enact. (FCC ring any bells?)

It is not fair to mom-and-pop in the long run. You need to read Hayek’s, “The Road to Serfdom” and get a better understanding why free markets are better than government regulation.

Video of Ron Paul from Sunday’s REPUBLICAN DEBATE in Iowa can be found here:

http://dailypaul.com/node/1114

Here are some “Ron Paul Facts” that you may not have heard:

  1. Ron Paul is a reincarnation of Thomas Jefferson.

  2. Ron Paul doesn’t go the gym. He stays fit by exercising his Bill of Rights.

  3. Ron Paul delivers babies without his hands. He simply reads them the
    Constitution and they crawl out in anticipation of freedom.

  4. Ron Paul has no alarm clock, but instead wakes every morning to the
    call of freedom.

  5. Ron Paul was raised in the wild by a pair of American bald eagles.

  6. Ron Paul doesn’t cut taxes. He kills them with his bare hands.

  7. Ron Paul lives in a house made of integrity.

  8. Ron Paul doesn’t sleep. He deliberates.

  9. I just saved a bunch of money by switching to Ron Paul.

  10. If you pull Ron Paul’s finger, a band will march by playing Yankee Doodle Dandy.

More Ron Paul facts

. Ron Paul’s idea of Gun Control is both hands on the weapon.
. Ron Paul is like kryptonite to Rudy Giuliani.
. Ron Paul wears running shoes so he can chase down “tax and spend” Republicans & beat them with his staff of fiscal responsibility.
. When applied directly to the brain, Ron Paul instantly cures socialism.
. While not a proctologist, Ron Paul will save this country’s ass.
. Ron Paul named his fists “Freedom” and “Justice”.
. Ron Paul is able to leap tall stacks of congressional legislation in a single bound.
. Ron Paul played the role of V in the movie, “V for Vendetta”.
. Before Rudy Giuliani goes to bed he checks his closet for Ron Paul!
. In Braveheart, Mel Gibson was originally supposed to scream “RON PAUL!” however, it was changed to just “Freedom!”
. Ron Paul has a natural non-stick, Teflon coating.

5 days remain until the Straw Poll!

The GOP, Ron Paul & Non-Interventionism (good, objective piece)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20070803/cm_rcp/goldwater_is_to_reagan_as_ron

Paul’s active service member donations get noticed

http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/pauls-active-service-member-donations-get-noticed-2007-08-03.html

Ronald Reagan, writing in his memoirs, on pulling US Marines out of harm’s way in the Middle East:

http://www.ronaldreagan.com/leb.html

LEBANON, BEIRUT AND GRENADA

In the weeks immediately after the (Beirut) bombing, I believed the last thing we should do was turn tail and leave. If we did that, it would say to the terrorists of the world that all it took to change Americans foreign policy was to murder some Americans. If we walked away, we�??d also be giving up on the moral commitment to Israel that had originally sent our marines to Lebanon. We�??d be abandoning all the progress made during almost two years of trying to mediate a settlement in the Middle East. We�??d be saying that the sacrifice of those marines had been for nothing. We�??d be inviting the Russians to supplant the United States as the most influential superpower in the Middle East. After more than a year of fighting and mounting chaos in Beirut, the biggest winner would be Syria, a Soviet client. Yet, the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there.

How do you deal with a people driven by such a religious zeal that they are willing to sacrifice their lives in order to kill an enemy simply because he doesn�??t worship the same God they do? People who believe that if they do that, they�??ll go instantly to heaven? In the Iran-Iraq war, radical Islamic fundamentalists sent more than a thousand young boys - teenagers and younger - to their deaths by telling them to charge and detonate land mines - and the boys did so joyously because they believed, �??Tonight, we will be in Paradise.�??

In early November, a new problem cropped up in the Middle East: Iran began threatening to close the Gulf of Hormuz, a vital corridor for the shipment of oil from the Persian Gulf. I said that if they followed through with this threat, is would constitute an illegal interference with navigation of the sea, and we would use force to keep the corridor open. Meanwhile, another development promised to bring change to the Middle East: Menachem Begin, deeply depressed after the death of his beloved wife and apparently devoid of the spirit he once had to continue fighting against Israel�??s Arab enemies and its serious economic problems, resigned as prime minister.

King Fahd of Saudi Arabia, perhaps thinking American resolve on behalf of Israel might have been diminished by the horrendous human loss in Beirut, approached us with a new peace proposal that he said could end the warfare in Lebanon, and also take Syria out of the Soviet camp and put it in ours. But the proposal would have required us to reduce our commitment to Israel, and I said no thanks. I still believed that it was essential to continue working with moderate Arabs to find a solution to the Middle East�??s problem, and that we should make selective sales of American weapons to the moderate Arabs as proof of our friendship. Syria with its new Soviet weapons and advisors, was growing more arrogant than ever, and rejected several proposals by the Saudis aimed at getting them out of Lebanon.

Our intelligence experts found it difficult to establish conclusively who was responsible for the attack on the barracks. When Druse militiamen began a new round of shelling of the marines several weeks after the bombing at the airport, we had to decide whether to ignore it or respond with firepower and escalate our role in the Lebanese war. �??We�??re a divided group,�?? I wrote in my journal after a National Security Council meeting held to discuss the renew shelling in early December. �??I happen to believe taking out a few batteries might give them pause to think. Joint Chiefs believe it might drastically alter our mission and lead to major increases in troops for Lebanon �?? Then, the Syrians took an action that more or less made our decision for us. Syria had launched a ground-to-air missile at one of our unarmed reconnaissance planes during a routine sweep over Beirut.

Although there was some resistance from Cap and the Joint Chiefs over whether we should retaliate, I told him to give the order for an air strike against the offending antiaircraft batteries. We had previously let the Syrians know that our reconnaissance operations in support of the marines were only defensive in nature. Our marines were not adversaries in the conflict, and any offensive act directed against them would be replied to. The following morning, more than two dozen navy aircraft carried out the mission. One crewman was killed and another captured by the Syrians. Our planes subsequently took out almost a dozen Syrian antiaircraft and missile-launching sites, a radar installation, and an ammo dump. When the Syrians fired again at one of our reconnaissance aircraft, I gave the order to fire the sixteen-inch guns of the battleship New Jersey on them. Two days later, we had a new cease-fire in Lebanon, a result, I�??m sure, of the pressure of the long guns of the New Jersey - but, like almost all the other cease-fires in Beirut, it didn�??t last long.

As 1984 began, it was becoming clearer that the Lebanese army was either unwilling or unable to end the civil war into which we had been dragged reluctantly. It was clear that the war was likely to go on for an extended period of time. As the sniping and shelling of their camp continued, I gave an order to evacuate all the marines to anchored off Lebanon. At the end of March, the ships of the Sixth Fleet and the marines who had fought to keep peace in Lebanon moved on to other assignments. We had to pull out. By then, there was no question about it: Our policy wasn�??t working. We couldn�??t stay there and run the risk of another suicide attack on the marines. No one wanted to commit our troops to a full-scale war in the middle East. But we couldn�??t remain in Lebanon and be in the war on a halfway basis, leaving our men vulnerable to terrorists with one hand tied behind their backs. We hadn�??t committed the marines to Beirut in a snap decision, and we weren�??t alone. France, Italy, and Britain were also part of the multinational force, and we all thought it was a good plan. And for a while, as I�??ve said, it had been working.

I�??m not sure how we could have anticipated the catastrophe at the marine barracks. Perhaps we didn�??t appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and the complexity of the problems that make the Middle East such a jungle. Perhaps the idea of a suicide car bomber committing mass murder to gain instant entry to Paradise was so foreign to our own values and consciousness that it did not create in us the concern for the marines�?? safety that it should have. Perhaps we should have anticipated that members of the Lebanese military whom we were trying to assist would simply lay down their arms and refuse to fight their own countrymen. In any case, the sending of the marines to Beirut was the source of my greatest regret and my greatest sorrow as president. Every day since the death of those boys, I have prayed for them and their loved ones.

In the months and the years that followed, our experience in Lebanon led to the adoption by the administration of a set of principles to guide America in the application of military force abroad, and I would recommend it to future presidents. The policy we adopted included these principles:

  1. The United States should not commit its forces to military action overseas unless the cause is vital to our national interest.

  2. If the decision is made to commit our forces to combat abroad, it must be done with the clear intent and support needed to win. It should not be a halfway or tentative commitment, and there must be clearly defined and realistic objectives.

  3. Before we commit our troops to combat, there must be reasonable assurance that the cause we are fighting for and the actions we take will have the support of the American people and Congress. (We all felt that the Vietnam War had turned into such a tragedy because military action had been undertaken without sufficient assurances that the American people were behind it.)

  4. Even after all these other tests are met, our troops should be committed to combat abroad only as a last resort, when no other choice is available.

After the marines left Beirut, we continued a search for peace and a diplomatic solution to the problems in the Middle East. But the war in Lebanon grew even more violent, the Arab-Israeli conflict became more bitter, and the Middle East continued to be a source of problems for me and our country.

Dr. Paul interviewed by a Foxy lady.

http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2007/08/05/just-come-home-ron-paul-gives-best-interview-yet-on-fox-news/

Latest Poll numbers from ABC GOB debate:

I wonder if ABC will comment on the results?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Decision2008/popup?id=3436820

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Latest Poll numbers from ABC GOB debate:

I wonder if ABC will comment on the results?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Decision2008/popup?id=3436820[/quote]

Ron Paul certainly has an active group of supporters that seek out these internet polls.

How well does he do on the more traditional polls?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Ron Paul certainly has an active group of supporters that seek out these internet polls.
[/quote]
Yet no other candidate does…

“Traditional”, read, outdated.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Ron Paul certainly has an active group of supporters that seek out these internet polls.

Yet no other candidate does…

How well does he do on the more traditional polls?

“Traditional”, read, outdated.
[/quote]

Traditional polls are unreliable but they are not subject to the whims of a small but motivated group like an internet poll.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Traditional polls are unreliable but they are not subject to the whims of a small but motivated group like an internet poll.
[/quote]
Don’t get me wrong–I don’t trust polls either but:

Why aren’t the other candidates getting as much attention on the internet?

Do you really think it only is a small faction of people that are supporting him and “spamming” up certain blogs and forums?

Why aren’t people motivated enough to go on the internet and do the same to support “their” candidate?

So yes, I will admit the statistical implications aren’t there yet because these polls are “self-selecting” but I still want an explanation why one candidate is being selected and others are not.

I’m not sure it matters who the Internet selects. At some point enough voting public will be hooked in, but I don’t think that point has happened just yet.

[quote]orion wrote:
Yes, there are a lot of freeloaders out there. So what?
[/quote]

You know, I wonder if it is appropriate to characterize the majority of the hard-working taxpaying public as “freeloaders”.

They are the ones actually paying for the services that they desire… it’s just that some others do not like to be forced to also support those services.

This is a very different thing than freeloading, and it has something to do with whether or not you actually believe in the concept of democracy and the will of the public (hopefully appropriately constrained by a constitution).

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Traditional polls are unreliable but they are not subject to the whims of a small but motivated group like an internet poll.

Don’t get me wrong–I don’t trust polls either but:

Why aren’t the other candidates getting as much attention on the internet?

Do you really think it only is a small faction of people that are supporting him and “spamming” up certain blogs and forums?

Why aren’t people motivated enough to go on the internet and do the same to support “their” candidate?

So yes, I will admit the statistical implications aren’t there yet because these polls are “self-selecting” but I still want an explanation why one candidate is being selected and others are not.[/quote]

I think it is a relatively small number of active supporters working the internet to drum up support.

Why? Because he is different than the usual candidate and that often attracts a motivated minority.

I think if it was a binary choice between Mitt and Ron Mitt would be getting a hell of a lot more support than he is on the internet. Since most of the Republicans are very similar people are not going to get behind only one at this point.

[quote]vroom wrote:
orion wrote:
Yes, there are a lot of freeloaders out there. So what?

You know, I wonder if it is appropriate to characterize the majority of the hard-working taxpaying public as “freeloaders”.

They are the ones actually paying for the services that they desire… it’s just that some others do not like to be forced to also support those services.

This is a very different thing than freeloading, and it has something to do with whether or not you actually believe in the concept of democracy and the will of the public (hopefully appropriately constrained by a constitution).[/quote]

How is that different from freeloading? Plus, the problem arises in part because the average voter makes less than the average worker.

And no, I do not care about the will of the public in some cases.

Neither do you.

The pubic does not get to vote if rape, murder, slavery or torture is ok, and there is no reason it should get to decide about my property.

You would not accept the government to enslave me to build a public school, but you have no problem when they tax my work to build it.

I can not be made to pick cotton, yet I can be made to subsidize cotton farming.

Where is the real moral difference?

Another question:

Where does a government get its “rights” from in a democracy?

Mick,

I was watching the Republican debate the other day and thought of you everytime ron paul came on.

You could almost see the other candidates cringe (no nominal not out of fear) in physical revulsion.

It made me laugh to think of all the Rage Against the Machiners hanging on his every word.

I think the guy is literally swinging verbal haymakers. He’s trying to hit a “home run” whenever he opens his mouth.

He seems to be the only true laughingstock on that platform.

However, he did serve one useful purpose: He amused me.

JeffR

[quote]orion wrote:
How is that different from freeloading? Plus, the problem arises in part because the average voter makes less than the average worker.[/quote]

Freeloaders are those that are not carrying their share of the burden. If that isn’t clear enough… I give up.

Most people don’t like paying the taxes they do, but they continue to bear it. Some services are appropriate at the national level, and you will surely agree to that, so the issue is not taxation but instead that you don’t agree with SOME of the taxation that occurs.

Of course, if you don’t believe in government at all, then you should say so.

[quote]Another question:

Where does a government get its “rights” from in a democracy?[/quote]

Enough baloney. Either do some real and serious thinking on the issues, or end up completely marginalized into obscurity. Crying about things you do not personally like is not very constructive.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Mick,

I was watching the Republican debate the other day and thought of you everytime ron paul came on.

You could almost see the other candidates cringe (no nominal not out of fear) in physical revulsion.

It made me laugh to think of all the Rage Against the Machiners hanging on his every word.

I think the guy is literally swinging verbal haymakers. He’s trying to hit a “home run” whenever he opens his mouth.

He seems to be the only true laughingstock on that platform.

However, he did serve one useful purpose: He amused me.

JeffR[/quote]

Idiotic.

You think he’s showing off?

Then answer this: Was he showing off for 10 years straight when he delivered the same speeches before often-empty chambers of Congress?

This man has been consistent for decades.

That’s a very long time to put up an act.

Maybe he’s the real deal, and your other candidates are acting.

Do you even realize that 7/10 of the people who were on that stage will be effectively dropping out of the race after next weekend? Have you taken that into consideration?

Will they grimace after Ron Paul makes a strong second-or-first place showing in the Straw Poll on Saturday?

I look forward to it.

P.S. Your man Rudy will follow McStain out the back door soon enough. Do you know why neither of them chose to participate in the Straw Poll? Because they both know they couldn’t win, and a loss to someone like Ron Paul would destroy their “front runner” image. So they will run from Iowa and maintain the illusion a little while longer. But Romney and Paul are catching up fast. Just as I predicted earlier on this thread. When Fred announces, that will be the knockout blow for your Julyannie.

3 days, 13 hours left as of this writing.

Ron Paul Odds Slashed From 15 to 1 to 8 to 1

http://www.gambling911.com/Ron-Paul-Odds-080707.html