Ron Paul and Bin Laden

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
62

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
I’m glad we took Osama Bin Laden out.

That said, I have a question for people defending it.

If the situation were reversed, and an anti-Pakistani terrorist were discovered to be living within U.S. borders, possibly with government complicity, would you similarly support Pakistan sending a covert force to kill the terrorist, without first consulting with U.S. authorities?

Yes or no?[/quote]

HELL no.

We’re the good guys. If Pakistan wants him and we know where he is, chances are he’s a whistleblower or a Human Rights activist, and protecting him is a good idea.

If he’s a terrorist, we’ll get him when we’re good and ready. Ain’t like he’s going anywhere (supposedly).[/quote]

Double standard, anyone?[/quote]

Anything else would require drawing a moral equivalency between a state that uses common law and a state that uses Sharia Law. If a people want to be governed under the latter, I see no reason to dissuade them from it, but that doesn’t mean the two are equal.[/quote]

So common law empowers a country to prosecute justice on foreign soil, while Sharia law is inferior and hence is disempowered?

Like I said, I support what we did. At the same time, I think there’s a valid reason the U.S. is viewed as hypocritical, arrogant, and bullying by other countries.

63

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, now that it’s been demonstrated Ron Paul is mentally unfit for office, can we move on?[/quote]

Not really.

No reasonable person can assume that the rest of the bunch is within calling distance of sanity.

64

[quote]forlife wrote:

Like I said, I support what we did. At the same time, I think there’s a valid reason the U.S. is viewed as hypocritical, arrogant, and bullying by other countries.[/quote]

No there isnt.

Obama and CLinton are ordained by God and any infidel to stoopid to realize it needs to be taught to bow to divine authoritay.

The mere act of questioning them practically makes you a heretic.

65

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

Like I said, I support what we did. At the same time, I think there’s a valid reason the U.S. is viewed as hypocritical, arrogant, and bullying by other countries.[/quote]

No there isnt.

Obama and CLinton are ordained by God and any infidel to stoopid to realize it needs to be taught to bow to divine authoritay.

The mere act of questioning them practically makes you a heretic.[/quote]

We are a Christian nation, after all.

66

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

Like I said, I support what we did. At the same time, I think there’s a valid reason the U.S. is viewed as hypocritical, arrogant, and bullying by other countries.[/quote]

No there isnt.

Obama and CLinton are ordained by God and any infidel to stoopid to realize it needs to be taught to bow to divine authoritay.

The mere act of questioning them practically makes you a heretic.[/quote]

We are a Christian nation, after all.[/quote]

Absofuckinglutely.

Those heathens need some smiting. Smitting? Smithing?

Anyhow, some good, old obliteration, they talk, smell and look funny.

67

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, now that it’s been demonstrated Ron Paul is mentally unfit for office, can we move on?[/quote]

Not really.

No reasonable person can assume that the rest of the bunch is within calling distance of sanity.

[/quote]

Quip away. I’m content with knowing Paul is done, done, done. After the first debate, when the other candidates have him sputtering and stammering over his position, he’ll just become that “weirdo who would’ve let OBL get away.” Excuse us heretics if we snicker a bit over your messianic figure’s upcoming melt-down.

68

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, now that it’s been demonstrated Ron Paul is mentally unfit for office, can we move on?[/quote]

Not really.

No reasonable person can assume that the rest of the bunch is within calling distance of sanity.

[/quote]

Quip away. I’m content with knowing Paul is done, done, done. After the first debate, when the other candidates have sputtering and stammering about position, he’ll just become that “weirdo who would’ve let OBL get away.” Excuse us heretics if we snicker a bit over your messianic figure’s incoming melt-down.[/quote]

No problem, you can still choose between staying the course and hitting the wall or putting the petal to the metal and hit it even harder.

The pinnacle of sanity, no doubt.

You sane leaders will make you wish for a time when you could pretend that illiterate goat herders meant a fucking thing in the grand scheme of things.

69

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, now that it’s been demonstrated Ron Paul is mentally unfit for office, can we move on?[/quote]

Not really.

No reasonable person can assume that the rest of the bunch is within calling distance of sanity.

[/quote]

Quip away. I’m content with knowing Paul is done, done, done. After the first debate, when the other candidates have sputtering and stammering about position, he’ll just become that “weirdo who would’ve let OBL get away.” Excuse us heretics if we snicker a bit over your messianic figure’s incoming melt-down.[/quote]

No problem, you can still choose between staying the course and hitting the wall or putting the petal to the metal and hit it even harder.

The pinnacle of sanity, no doubt.

You sane leaders will make you wish for a time when you could pretend that illiterate goat herders meant a fucking thing in the grand scheme of things. [/quote]

Got him. We celebrated. Paul wouldn’t have. He’s now unelectable to an even greater magnitude. Stew and steam over it. He’ll just have to retire. Don’t worry, he can still earn an income from lending his to name to racist newsletters. I speak blasphemy!

70

[quote]forlife wrote:

Double standard, anyone?[/quote]

Nope, there can’t be a double standard because there is no standard that applies (or should apply) equally across foreign powers.

Relativism doesn’t work in most contexts - but it certainly doesn’t work among nations.

In any event, your hypothetical presupposes an equivalence between the countries that doesn’t (and won’t) exist - the US has a stable, predictable justice system that can be relied upon by foreign powers to manage extradition, etc. Pakistan is a land of tribal barbarians with a justice system that no one has confidence in.

For a standard to apply, there would have to be enough confidence in reciprocity between systems of justice to deliver up wanted bad guys. No such confidence in reciprocity exists between the US and Pakistan. By contrast, if OBL were in the UK, the circumstances would be different.

You can’t treat unlike things alike. What is it with this creeping, naive relativism these days?

71

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, now that it’s been demonstrated Ron Paul is mentally unfit for office, can we move on?[/quote]

Not really.

No reasonable person can assume that the rest of the bunch is within calling distance of sanity.

[/quote]

Quip away. I’m content with knowing Paul is done, done, done. After the first debate, when the other candidates have sputtering and stammering about position, he’ll just become that “weirdo who would’ve let OBL get away.” Excuse us heretics if we snicker a bit over your messianic figure’s incoming melt-down.[/quote]

No problem, you can still choose between staying the course and hitting the wall or putting the petal to the metal and hit it even harder.

The pinnacle of sanity, no doubt.

You sane leaders will make you wish for a time when you could pretend that illiterate goat herders meant a fucking thing in the grand scheme of things. [/quote]

Got him. We celebrated. Paul wouldn’t have. He’s now unelectable to an even greater magnitude. Stew and steam over it. He’ll just have to retire. Don’t worry, he can still earn an income from lending his to name to racist newsletters. I speak blasphemy![/quote]

No, you speak jibberjabber, the fitting death knells to a dying American empire.

Not a bang, not even a whimper, only buffoonery.

72

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, now that it’s been demonstrated Ron Paul is mentally unfit for office, can we move on?[/quote]

Not really.

No reasonable person can assume that the rest of the bunch is within calling distance of sanity.

[/quote]

Quip away. I’m content with knowing Paul is done, done, done. After the first debate, when the other candidates have sputtering and stammering about position, he’ll just become that “weirdo who would’ve let OBL get away.” Excuse us heretics if we snicker a bit over your messianic figure’s incoming melt-down.[/quote]

No problem, you can still choose between staying the course and hitting the wall or putting the petal to the metal and hit it even harder.

The pinnacle of sanity, no doubt.

You sane leaders will make you wish for a time when you could pretend that illiterate goat herders meant a fucking thing in the grand scheme of things. [/quote]

Got him. We celebrated. Paul wouldn’t have. He’s now unelectable to an even greater magnitude. Stew and steam over it. He’ll just have to retire. Don’t worry, he can still earn an income from lending his to name to racist newsletters. I speak blasphemy![/quote]

No, you speak jibberjabber, the fitting death knells to a dying American empire.

Not a bang, not even a whimper, only buffoonery.[/quote]

Yawn. What are you, Lew Rockwell’s prophet of doom?

73

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, now that it’s been demonstrated Ron Paul is mentally unfit for office, can we move on?[/quote]

Not really.

No reasonable person can assume that the rest of the bunch is within calling distance of sanity.

[/quote]

Quip away. I’m content with knowing Paul is done, done, done. After the first debate, when the other candidates have sputtering and stammering about position, he’ll just become that “weirdo who would’ve let OBL get away.” Excuse us heretics if we snicker a bit over your messianic figure’s incoming melt-down.[/quote]

No problem, you can still choose between staying the course and hitting the wall or putting the petal to the metal and hit it even harder.

The pinnacle of sanity, no doubt.

You sane leaders will make you wish for a time when you could pretend that illiterate goat herders meant a fucking thing in the grand scheme of things. [/quote]

Got him. We celebrated. Paul wouldn’t have. He’s now unelectable to an even greater magnitude. Stew and steam over it. He’ll just have to retire. Don’t worry, he can still earn an income from lending his to name to racist newsletters. I speak blasphemy![/quote]

No, you speak jibberjabber, the fitting death knells to a dying American empire.

Not a bang, not even a whimper, only buffoonery.[/quote]

Yawn. What are you, Lew Rockwell’s prophet of doom?[/quote]

No, I am the master in the “Meistersinger”.

You can hear my chalk on the board.

74

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

Like I said, I support what we did. At the same time, I think there’s a valid reason the U.S. is viewed as hypocritical, arrogant, and bullying by other countries.[/quote]

No there isnt.

Obama and CLinton are ordained by God and any infidel to stoopid to realize it needs to be taught to bow to divine authoritay.

The mere act of questioning them practically makes you a heretic.[/quote]

LOL. Yup. In fact, I hear Clinton, Bush, and Obama are planning on adding to the cannon of scripture. Their feet should be kissed and every piece of propaganda they put out should be seen as holy writ. USA! USA!

Hell, they’re always right. Our state religion should officially recognize their sanctity and realize that its okay when they kill. Their victims are just dumb rag heads fit only for the incinerator. They have absolutely no right whatsoever to retaliate when some foreign government occupies their lands, imposes sanctions that kill 500,000 children, tortures and kills its people and installs brutal dictators that torture and kill them. It’s only been going on for over a half century. What are they, wimps?

Yes, REAL Christian of you guys. What hypocrites.

If the US foreign policy hand never been interventionist, 9/11 would never have happened. But like I said, their just dumb rag heads who deserve whatever brutal torture or death the US gives them. Don’t they know who God is? It’s the US. The King of King’s and Lord of Lords. Hallelujah!

75

[quote]byukid wrote:
ZEB, I don’t get it- in our man hunt for Osama there have been more american soldiers killed (not to mention iraqi and afghani citizens) than were killed on 9/11. His attack succeeded in killing far more than just the people who died that day, not to mention the continued loss of freedom resulting from that attack. We played into his hand, in effect.[/quote]

We did not play into his had my friend. When a country is attacked, on its own shores it has no alternative than to return that volley. If not then in the end we lose far more than a few thousand lives. We could end up losing hundreds of thousands of lives as the villains who attacked walk away thinking that we are weak. Naturally I don’t want to see even one service man die, but that is the ugliness of war. If you walk away with nothing else remember that all you have to do to increase the chances of losing more military service personnel is to not respond quickly with full force.

76

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]byukid wrote:
ZEB, I don’t get it- in our man hunt for Osama there have been more american soldiers killed (not to mention iraqi and afghani citizens) than were killed on 9/11. His attack succeeded in killing far more than just the people who died that day, not to mention the continued loss of freedom resulting from that attack. We played into his hand, in effect.

[/quote]

Is this the kind of intellect that Brigham Young University is producing?

Holy shit, the US educational system truly sucks and that apparently includes our large private universities.

I’m flabbergasted at the amount of stupidity I see on this thread.
[/quote]

I think it’s largely brain washing by the liberal University Professors.

77

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

If the US foreign policy hand never been interventionist, 9/11 would never have happened. [/quote]

You naively assume.

78

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:
Ron Paul would have first told the Pakistan government…[/quote]

So, basically, he would’ve screwed it up. Ok, thanks.[/quote]

And why would that screw it up? Who do you think helped us catch the mastermind behind 9/11? Couldn’t be Pakistan now could it. Or was it when Bush asked them for help it was a good thing, but Ron Paul doing it is bad.

So any more wise ass comments?[/quote]

Wasn’t the Pakistan government hiding Bib Laden? How in the world could he have lived in a mansion in the middle of such a high class neighborhood in the open and not have the government be aware?

Obama did the right thing - And you won’t hear me saying that too many times. [/quote]

In all fairness (and the ISI pointed it out at the time, IIRC), Whitey Bulger was living in the lap of luxury (Santa Monica), and I don’t consider The American Government to have been hiding him.

Doubtless Bin Laden had friends in Pakistan’s government. Doubtless, Pakistan’s government is not monolithic.

But its nice to know you’re a fan of Obama.[/quote]

Bin Laden was the most famous man in the Muslim world.

I’ll bet Whitey’s neighbors never heard of him.[/quote]

Also, today I ate over twenty five super-hot buffalo wings on a dare. What does this have to do with the American government somehow being complicit in hiding Whitey Bulger?[/quote]

You do realize that a “rouge” FBI agent assisted Whitey and tipped him off so he could escape. Also from the few books I read on the subject it is quite possible that Agent Connoly’s fellow agents and immediate superior knew there was something wrong and ignored it for years. So yes, the US government was complicit.

And Pakistan arrested those that tipped us off to bin Laden. It is hard to think that highest levels in Pakistan were not complicit.

Of course this was the same government that charged a CIA agent with murder when he killed an assassin that was shooting at him with a machine pistol.[/quote]

How did Pakistan arrest those that tipped us off to bin Laden? They were in US custody.

Also, if the US government is complicit in the cover up of Whitey Bulger, maybe Zeb should level congruent corruption charges against the US and Pakistan. And then work to fix his own country. Charity starts at home.[/quote]

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/12/3765208/us-wants-release-of-doctor-who.html

Here is one story of Pakistan arresting someone for helping us. They also arrested military officers and government officials for aiding us.

79

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
You realize that makes no sense whatsover right?
Somehow countries like Brazil, Switzerland and Canada are doing all right without fukking with other countries and impressing military might upon them…hmm.
[/quote]

Look, as incredible as it is to believe, there are still idiots that believe “they hate us for our freedoms”, the most laughable accusation I’ve ever heard. How willingly blind does someone have to be to still believe this? And yeah, if it was all about hating freedoms (which the government is taking away at an alarming rate, largely because of these damn wars you idiots) then how come, like you said, Brazil, Switzerland and Canada never experienced a 9/11? Gee, I wonder why?

THINK people. Who has installed brutal puppet dictators in foreign countries that torture and kill people? Who has been bombing and invading their lands for decades? Who has had their troops on other countries soil? Duh! I wonder. If China had done the same thing to us you can bet the hypocritical chicken hawks would be the first people to bitch like crazy.[/quote]

China has done the same thing. Of all the major powers the US has had the most moderating influence on dictators in its sphere of influence.

Other western countries have let the US do the dirty work. While I am sick of it and think it should stop this blame the US attitude just displays incredible ignorance as to how the world really works.

Government and power in the hands of a few leads to abuse. We are fortunate the the US is more benevolent than any other powerful empire in history.

Grow up and push for realistic improvements in foreign policy, not Ron Paul foolishness.

80

[quote]forlife wrote:
I’m glad we took Osama Bin Laden out.

That said, I have a question for people defending it.

If the situation were reversed, and an anti-Pakistani terrorist were discovered to be living within U.S. borders, possibly with government complicity, would you similarly support Pakistan sending a covert force to kill the terrorist, without first consulting with U.S. authorities?

Yes or no?[/quote]

False question. Without putting things in perspective it is just silly.

Do you advocate shooting a stranger on the street?

Of course not!

What if he is murdering a group of children? Changes things a bit.