[quote]ZEB wrote:
When it comes to foreign policy Ron Paul doesn’t know his ass from first base…
[/quote]
Thanks for the laugh Mr. Neocon.
[quote]John S. wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]John S. wrote:
Ron Paul would have first told the Pakistan government…[/quote]
So, basically, he would’ve screwed it up. Ok, thanks.[/quote]
And why would that screw it up? Who do you think helped us catch the mastermind behind 9/11? Couldn’t be Pakistan now could it. Or was it when Bush asked them for help it was a good thing, but Ron Paul doing it is bad.
So any more wise ass comments?[/quote]
The capture of KSM was the result of an internal power struggle within AQ. KSM was trying to position himself as the heir apparent in the AQ organization and usurp OBL’s authority. KSM was turned in by his own people because it was a win win situation. His capture ended the power struggle and it gave the Pakistanis the opportunity to say “see we are doing our part to capture these guys, here is the 9/11 mastermind”.
KSM was nothing more than a sacrificial lamb, who took the pressure off of the Pakistanis to give up OBL. For you to try and play it off on us as some great success that resulted from playing by the rules is an insult to our intelligence.
Ron Paul lives in a fantasy world that is far removed from reality. He thinks that we can be some kind of super Boy Scout nation in a world full of sharks and survive. Our enemies don’t fight fair.
OBL was stashed just outside the gates of Pakistan’s West Point for a reason.
[quote]
Ron Paul lives in a fantasy world that is far removed from reality. He thinks that we can be some kind of super Boy Scout nation in a world full of sharks and survive. Our enemies don’t fight fair.
OBL was stashed just outside the gates of Pakistan’s West Point for a reason. [/quote]
So you beat the murderers by becoming a murderer? You beat the drug dealers by becoming a drug dealer? You beat the gangbangers by becoming a gangbanger?
You realize that makes no sense whatsover right?
Somehow countries like Brazil, Switzerland and Canada are doing all right without fukking with other countries and impressing military might upon them…hmm.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Otep wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Otep wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]John S. wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]John S. wrote:
Ron Paul would have first told the Pakistan government…[/quote]
So, basically, he would’ve screwed it up. Ok, thanks.[/quote]
And why would that screw it up? Who do you think helped us catch the mastermind behind 9/11? Couldn’t be Pakistan now could it. Or was it when Bush asked them for help it was a good thing, but Ron Paul doing it is bad.
So any more wise ass comments?[/quote]
Wasn’t the Pakistan government hiding Bib Laden? How in the world could he have lived in a mansion in the middle of such a high class neighborhood in the open and not have the government be aware?
Obama did the right thing - And you won’t hear me saying that too many times. [/quote]
In all fairness (and the ISI pointed it out at the time, IIRC), Whitey Bulger was living in the lap of luxury (Santa Monica), and I don’t consider The American Government to have been hiding him.
Doubtless Bin Laden had friends in Pakistan’s government. Doubtless, Pakistan’s government is not monolithic.
But its nice to know you’re a fan of Obama.[/quote]
Bin Laden was the most famous man in the Muslim world.
I’ll bet Whitey’s neighbors never heard of him.[/quote]
Also, today I ate over twenty five super-hot buffalo wings on a dare. What does this have to do with the American government somehow being complicit in hiding Whitey Bulger?[/quote]
You do realize that a “rouge” FBI agent assisted Whitey and tipped him off so he could escape. Also from the few books I read on the subject it is quite possible that Agent Connoly’s fellow agents and immediate superior knew there was something wrong and ignored it for years. So yes, the US government was complicit.
And Pakistan arrested those that tipped us off to bin Laden. It is hard to think that highest levels in Pakistan were not complicit.
Of course this was the same government that charged a CIA agent with murder when he killed an assassin that was shooting at him with a machine pistol.[/quote]
How did Pakistan arrest those that tipped us off to bin Laden? They were in US custody.
Also, if the US government is complicit in the cover up of Whitey Bulger, maybe Zeb should level congruent corruption charges against the US and Pakistan. And then work to fix his own country. Charity starts at home.
Man I hope the journalists hit him hard over the “I would’ve watched OBL get tipped off and disappear.” As little chance as he has now at the white house, even that much is gone.
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
You realize that makes no sense whatsover right?
Somehow countries like Brazil, Switzerland and Canada are doing all right without fukking with other countries and impressing military might upon them…hmm.
[/quote]
Look, as incredible as it is to believe, there are still idiots that believe “they hate us for our freedoms”, the most laughable accusation I’ve ever heard. How willingly blind does someone have to be to still believe this? And yeah, if it was all about hating freedoms (which the government is taking away at an alarming rate, largely because of these damn wars you idiots) then how come, like you said, Brazil, Switzerland and Canada never experienced a 9/11? Gee, I wonder why?
THINK people. Who has installed brutal puppet dictators in foreign countries that torture and kill people? Who has been bombing and invading their lands for decades? Who has had their troops on other countries soil? Duh! I wonder. If China had done the same thing to us you can bet the hypocritical chicken hawks would be the first people to bitch like crazy.
[quote]byukid wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Any other country?
You mean if Russia was attacked the way the US was on 9-11 they wouldn’t have entered Pakistan without permission? No you’re probably right because Russia probably would have wiped Pakistan off the face of the earth as soon as they found out that Bin Laden was there. As for China, and a long list of other countries same thing.
The US had every right to do what it did. And furthermore, we should hold Pakistan responsible for harboring a terrorist such as Bin Laden. We should make them pay a price for this travesty of justice.
When it comes to foreign policy Ron Paul doesn’t know his ass from first base, and you are not far behind him judging by your post.
[/quote]
We had every right to wage two wars in which more american military died than were civilians killed on 9/11 (not to mention the billions spent there) to find and kill one old, diabetic, evil man? We should have let him rot in his compound.
[/quote]
I’ll say this about your posts, you sure can put a lot of disinformation in a very short paragraph.
Let me try to straighten it out for you junior:
-
The number of deaths which were inflicted in the unprovoked attack on our shores has nothing to do with whether or not we should have responded. Get it? The idea of the USA being attacked and NOT responding in kind (as we did) would have encouraged more attacks, and no doubt even greater loss of life. Bill Clinton dealt with terrorism in the fashion that you are suggesting after we suffered a couple of terrorist attacks, the UN building and the USS Cole. And this led us up to the attack on 9-11. So we learned something from recent history didn’t we? Now how many attacks on our shores have we suffered since we responded? ZERO!
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This diabetic old man was indeed head of a very evil organization. Furthermore, he directly planned attacks against our great country. He needed to die and the US accomplished that. As head of state you would suggest allowing Bin Laden to live? Perhaps maybe pay for his insulin injections? After all he was a sick old man right? If we could have taken out the top 20 leaders of Al Quida so much the better. And it doesn’t matter where they are or what they’re doing at the time. Fear was struck in the hearts of Al Quida leaders all over the globe when Bin Laden bit the dust. It was a great day for America, a great day to be American and an even better day for freedom! Got that?
Finally, please don’t post back. You have nothing of substance or significance to add to this discussion. Your infantile assumptions are laughable. And here I go once again, a recurrent theme, but alas still true…You’re only 22 years old. Only a couple of years ago you were concerned about what style condom you were going to use to boink your girl friend with. Now you’re suddenly T Nation has made you an expert on foreign affairs?
Sorry kid, I’m not trying to be nasty, but I just don’t have any more patience for those who should be reading about, rather than commenting on world affairs.
Bye.
[quote]cloakmanor wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
When it comes to foreign policy Ron Paul doesn’t know his ass from first base…
[/quote]
Thanks for the laugh Mr. Neocon.[/quote]
I’m glad that a little truth telling was all you needed to be entertained. But I’m not surprised given the fact that you’re a starry eyed Paulite. Now run along I’m sure there’s a poll that they need to bus you to so that Paul’s numbers can look better than they really are. And he can try to continue to look relevant when he’s really not.
But don’t worry while we both know Paul has no chance of winning in 2012 I heard there is a movement afoot for next time around: Paul in 2016! GO GO GO GO …He’ll only be 83 why not?
LOL…no really you guys are just nuts, but in a fun way, yes in a fun way for certain. And thank you for that, it keeps me coming back to this place time and again.
I’m glad we took Osama Bin Laden out.
That said, I have a question for people defending it.
If the situation were reversed, and an anti-Pakistani terrorist were discovered to be living within U.S. borders, possibly with government complicity, would you similarly support Pakistan sending a covert force to kill the terrorist, without first consulting with U.S. authorities?
Yes or no?
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
Why do you think that countries like Brazil, Switzerland and Canada can go on as they do? BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA EXISTS in a world where there are some very serious dangers to our freedom. And we act when needed to assure those freedoms. What sort of world do you think you would be living in right now if suddenly, by magic the US disappeared?
Please, I know your a young man but don’t walk around saying these naive things. Someone might hear you and actually be influenced.
Oh and by the way, it seems Ron Paul has gotten more donations from military personnel than the other candidates (at least so far).
http://caivn.org/article/2011/07/19/ron-paul-receives-most-military-donations-again
[quote]forlife wrote:
I’m glad we took Osama Bin Laden out.
That said, I have a question for people defending it.
If the situation were reversed, and an anti-Pakistani terrorist were discovered to be living within U.S. borders, possibly with government complicity, would you similarly support Pakistan sending a covert force to kill the terrorist, without first consulting with U.S. authorities?
Yes or no?[/quote]
HELL no.
We’re the good guys. If Pakistan wants him and we know where he is, chances are he’s a whistleblower or a Human Rights activist, and protecting him is a good idea.
If he’s a terrorist, we’ll get him when we’re good and ready. Ain’t like he’s going anywhere (supposedly).
[quote]Otep wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
I’m glad we took Osama Bin Laden out.
That said, I have a question for people defending it.
If the situation were reversed, and an anti-Pakistani terrorist were discovered to be living within U.S. borders, possibly with government complicity, would you similarly support Pakistan sending a covert force to kill the terrorist, without first consulting with U.S. authorities?
Yes or no?[/quote]
HELL no.
We’re the good guys. If Pakistan wants him and we know where he is, chances are he’s a whistleblower or a Human Rights activist, and protecting him is a good idea.
If he’s a terrorist, we’ll get him when we’re good and ready. Ain’t like he’s going anywhere (supposedly).[/quote]
Double standard, anyone?
[quote]cloakmanor wrote:
Oh and by the way, it seems Ron Paul has gotten more donations from military personnel than the other candidates (at least so far).
http://caivn.org/article/2011/07/19/ron-paul-receives-most-military-donations-again[/quote]
Oh…isn’t that special? You see cloakmanor most of Ron Paul’s support comes from 20 something’s. And most of the rank and file military are 20 something’s. And while the group of Paul supporters is tiny, just like in civilian life, those small band of brave men are willing to cough up an inordinate amount of money (just like you guys who are not in the military). Now as we move along in the election cycle Paul’s financial support will pale by comparison to what the front running republican will be raising from the military (just like back in 08’). Furthermore the republican will most likely lead in military donations against the democrat, as they usually do.
Now as to your own political education, I’m greatly disappointed in you. You’re going to have to pay better attention because I’ve already schooled your fellow student John S. on this very topic. You were right there, in the very same room. I assume you were not taking notes? Thinking about the previous nights date?
Wake up Cloakmanor or you’re going to have to repeat “Why Ron Paul Will Never Be Elected To The Presidency 101”
DISMISSED!
ZEB, I don’t get it- in our man hunt for Osama there have been more american soldiers killed (not to mention iraqi and afghani citizens) than were killed on 9/11. His attack succeeded in killing far more than just the people who died that day, not to mention the continued loss of freedom resulting from that attack. We played into his hand, in effect.
[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
They are killing our people. I think we have a right to retaliate. I also think that if we have trust issues with a country like Pakistan then we are wise to do what we did. If they are really our friend they will understand and let it blow over.
We’ve had people who had a bad history get assassinated by another country in America and we let it go. At the end of the day some people just aren’t worth creating a fuss over if their past catches up to them. Bin Laden was one such person.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
They are killing our people. I think we have a right to retaliate.
[/quote]
The US government has also been killing their people, and for far longer too. I guess they have a right to retaliate. Oops, sorry, forgot. Only the HOLY US government has that right. Besides, it is king of kings and lord of lords right? Those who do not bow to its every whim deserve destruction. Geez, you people have made a god out of the government and you don’t even realize it.
Well, now that it’s been demonstrated Ron Paul is mentally unfit for office, can we move on?
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Otep wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
I’m glad we took Osama Bin Laden out.
That said, I have a question for people defending it.
If the situation were reversed, and an anti-Pakistani terrorist were discovered to be living within U.S. borders, possibly with government complicity, would you similarly support Pakistan sending a covert force to kill the terrorist, without first consulting with U.S. authorities?
Yes or no?[/quote]
HELL no.
We’re the good guys. If Pakistan wants him and we know where he is, chances are he’s a whistleblower or a Human Rights activist, and protecting him is a good idea.
If he’s a terrorist, we’ll get him when we’re good and ready. Ain’t like he’s going anywhere (supposedly).[/quote]
Double standard, anyone?[/quote]
Anything else would require drawing a moral equivalency between a state that uses common law and a state that uses Sharia Law. If a people want to be governed under the latter, I see no reason to dissuade them from it, but that doesn’t mean the two are equal.