Romo vs Eli

Off Topic
41

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
So FI what you are saying is that if JJ would have done a deal and taken Eli then Dallas would have won 2 SBs with him?

And you being a Giants fan would give him props for it?

[/quote]

You don’t like dealing in facts huh? You’d rather play the speculative horseshit game. Fine. Fair enough.

When he got to the Giants, they were a mess, they’d been a mess for years. Jerry Reese has done a good job of building the team with role players, but they’re far from the best team every year in terms of pure talent or skill. Their defense this year was awful for the better part of the season, their running game at times non-existent, and at times they were absolutely awful.

It was a lot like 2004 in that regard. Eli Manning, however, has been the one constant, the one rock, that the team has come to rely on. It’s totally evident that as he goes, the team goes - and if he was to get injured, they would have been 4-12, no doubt.

So yea, I think that Eli Manning could have taken the Cowboys to two Super Bowls. They certainly wouldn’t have choked in the remarkable fashion that they have made their habit in the past few years once they get to the playoffs because Tony Homo is nearly incapable of winning a playoff game.

I think Eli could have taken the Cowboys there, but I have no doubt that Homo could never, ever have taken the Giants to the Super Bowl once, forget twice.

Me being a Giants fan has nothing to do with anything. I know football inside and out, been following it since I was a child and played in one of the best high school programs in NJ. I know who is good and who isn’t, who’s worthwhile in the clutch and who shits themselves.

I fucking hated Troy Aikman, but the guy could play. Emmit Smith just as well. I’ve always been impressed with Jason Witten and I always like the way Marion Barber ran. They were hardnosed guys that really had no place playing in Dallas, but I couldn’t hate on them.

42

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Look up the running game numbers in playoffs last year for Giants almost doubled the regular season.
[/quote]

I don’t know what this means. They had more yards in the playoffs? More yards per carry? You looked it up, put up the link to a source.

The offenses were very different. The Giants offense this year had tons of problems running the ball, and I’m not talking playoffs, I’m talking those 16 games before the playoffs. Last time I’m going to write that - he clearly was playing in a very different offense that relied much more heavily on his arm and FORCED him to carry the team.

Ah, yea, you pretty clearly are.

[quote]
But as a football guy I am talking about body of work and the position [/quote]

Me too. He’s got the body of work, no doubt.

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I am stuck at one of my job sites all my staff are on vacation, so being the boss I’m just manning the fort for emergency situations and sitting here with no one to talk too.

So I started this thread to kill time and because people love to hate the Cowboys it makes a good discussion.

I love how everyone myself included judge QBs different than every position and how visceral the responses can be about “their” guy.

44

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Look up the running game numbers in playoffs last year for Giants almost doubled the regular season.
[/quote]

I don’t know what this means. They had more yards in the playoffs? More yards per carry? You looked it up, put up the link to a source.

The offenses were very different. The Giants offense this year had tons of problems running the ball, and I’m not talking playoffs, I’m talking those 16 games before the playoffs. Last time I’m going to write that - he clearly was playing in a very different offense that relied much more heavily on his arm and FORCED him to carry the team.

Ah, yea, you pretty clearly are.

[quote]
But as a football guy I am talking about body of work and the position [/quote]

Me too. He’s got the body of work, no doubt.[/quote]
I’m on my iPad with a server that blocks a ton of things so can’t look up much.
YPG went up to the Giants normal average in the playoffs last year.

No matter what you think not attacking Eli have never posted that he is a bad QB, I am not a homer he does not have the greatest QB rating, completion percentage or TD/INT ratio. Not an opinion just the fact, he is a winner obviously so that cannot be disputed however his body of work can be.

45

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
I am stuck at one of my job sites all my staff are on vacation, so being the boss I’m just manning the fort for emergency situations and sitting here with no one to talk too.

So I started this thread to kill time and because people love to hate the Cowboys it makes a good discussion.

I love how everyone myself included judge QBs different than every position and how visceral the responses can be about “their” guy.

[/quote]

I get defensive because I believe that because of fantasy football, a “good quarterback” now means “guy who has great statistics.”

That, as a football fan, offends the shit out of me. Growing up, there were quarterbacks with better stats than Phil Simms, or Joe Montana, or whomever, but nobody fucking remembers them. Why? Because they got their asses kicked and their teams sucked.

The quarterbacks we remember are the guys who played great when everything was on the line, who won Super Bowls, who took their teams deep into the playoffs every year.

Now though, you have people trying to “debate” whether a fucking guy like Tony Homo, who’s won one fucking playoff game, is better than two-time Super Bowl winner Ben Rothliesberger, two-time Super Bowl MVP Eli Manning, etc.

Back in the day, before people lived and died by statistics, people would have laughed their asses off at this. Who would have said that Warren Moon was a better quarterback than Joe Montana? Steve Young? It’s ludicrous.

I fear that one day, people will be talking about quarterbacks from the early part of the century and guys will say…“Yea, Manning was good, but he fucked my fantasy team every week with his interceptions.”

So it’s probably more of a problem with people that have brought fantasy football to the point where it’s more important than REAL football.

/rant

46

I agree and that is a lot of reason I started it to kind of bring that out. Also this was started by A Toomer who I listened to the whole thing and was not pulling a Tiki. He didn’t attack Eli he was just stating that people don’t give Romo credit and he is a good QB that has been hamstrung by a bad GM and lack of support.

Now who is better Eli or Peyton?

47

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
I agree and that is a lot of reason I started it to kind of bring that out. Also this was started by A Toomer who I listened to the whole thing and was not pulling a Tiki. He didn’t attack Eli he was just stating that people don’t give Romo credit and he is a good QB that has been hamstrung by a bad GM and lack of support.

Now who is better Eli or Peyton?[/quote]

That’s a much more difficult question. Peyton clearly has way better statistics, but their respective teams are (or were) totally reliant on them - without Peyton the Colts were awful, and without Eli, the Giants would be also.

But Peyton as all sorts of Dan Marino-eque accolades - quick visit to wikipedia and you get "From 1998 to 2010, he led the Colts to seven AFC South division championships, two AFC championships, and to a Super Bowl championship (Super Bowl XLI).

He has won a record four league most valuable player awards,[1] was the most valuable player of Super Bowl XLI, has been named to eleven Pro Bowls, has eleven 4,000-yard passing seasons (including a record six straight),[2][3] and is the Indianapolis Colts’ all-time leader in passing yards (54,828) and touchdown passes (399). In 2009, he was named the best player in the NFL[2][3] and Fox Sports along with Sports Illustrated named him the NFL player of the decade of the 2000s."

That’s a tough act to follow even without the Super Bowl MVP award and his two AFC Championship appearances.

I’ve got to say that skillwise, Peyton is better. But in a head-to-head game, Eli beats him maybe 45 out of 100 times just because of that grit and maybe, one might say, that luck, that just seems to be on his side.

They’re both great, but in different ways.

48

I agree and I would have to say Peyton is way more cerebral and “coach” on the field technician. Where Eli is just that athletic “jock” that just gets it done some how either luck or grind it out whatever.

My fear is that Romo is another Danny White I suffered a lot of years with Danny.

49

See - I had no idea who Danny White was, because he was a good statistical quarterback who couldn’t win for shit when everything was on the line.

I didn’t even know that he was the quarterback in the 1980 NFC Championship game (give me a break, I was four years in the making at that point and not born.)

But yea, his career reads exactly like Romo’s - followed the legendary Roger Staubach and could do nothing worth remembering… just like Romo and Aikman (minus those who were in the interim, of course.)

50


they both suck.

here is the real deal.

51

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
they both suck.

here is the real deal.[/quote]
Unless his knee hurts

Or he needs insulin shot

Or his coach is trying to coach him

Hahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahah

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[quote]Derek542 wrote:

Or his coach is trying to coach him

Hahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahah[/quote]

I HATE WHEN COACHES TRY TO COACH! WTFFFF

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
See - I had no idea who Danny White was, because he was a good statistical quarterback who couldn’t win for shit when everything was on the line.

I didn’t even know that he was the quarterback in the 1980 NFC Championship game (give me a break, I was four years in the making at that point and not born.)

But yea, his career reads exactly like Romo’s - followed the legendary Roger Staubach and could do nothing worth remembering… just like Romo and Aikman (minus those who were in the interim, of course.)[/quote]

I am still hopeful I mean I am a fan of the Cowboys and I hope he gets to at least a NFC champ game to really see if if this is Danny 2.0

54

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
See - I had no idea who Danny White was, because he was a good statistical quarterback who couldn’t win for shit when everything was on the line.

I didn’t even know that he was the quarterback in the 1980 NFC Championship game (give me a break, I was four years in the making at that point and not born.)

But yea, his career reads exactly like Romo’s - followed the legendary Roger Staubach and could do nothing worth remembering… just like Romo and Aikman (minus those who were in the interim, of course.)[/quote]

I am still hopeful I mean I am a fan of the Cowboys and I hope he gets to at least a NFC champ game to really see if if this is Danny 2.0[/quote]

I don’t think you really want to see that haha… that guy is just not someone who pulls it off when he has to. He showed some toughness last year but he’s got lots of problems otherwise… and Jerry Jones won’t make it any easier on him.

55

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Here is the thing almost EVERY X player, coach etc will say that, at the position of QB there is Brady and Peyton. I’m not talking Team or wins or SB’s. I’m talking about these two guys ability to perform at the position of QB, there is no body close. Bree’s and Rogers are 3 and 4 for sure.[/quote]

I’d agree with every player and coach if we were talking about where Peyton left off before he missed a whole year due to the injury. Not now. Like I said, he’s got to prove himself before we put him back up there. Having said that, If I were the Broncos (or Niners) I wouldn’t have hesitated to take a gamble on Peyton.

Re other discussion, Eli HOF for sure. Probably 1st ballot by the time it’s all said and done.

56

Keep in mind that if Peyton retires tomorrow, he played for 14 seasons and is 36 years old.

That’s a full body of work - it’s not like his career has really been “cut short” by the injury. Let’s be fair here - his best days are way behind him, neck injury or not.

57

So you guys really think he is done?

I think Peyton challenges this year deep in playoffs and that is from a guy who has 20 years of medicine

58

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
So you guys really think he is done?

I think Peyton challenges this year deep in playoffs and that is from a guy who has 20 years of medicine[/quote]

Dude, I love Peyton Manning. Like, seriously love the guy. That United Way spoof he did a few years back with the kids, and his commercials, totally changed my outlook on him - he plays the asshole so well and really enjoys it. He’s got a sense of humor.

And I love the way he plays - fiery, very passionate, perfectionist, intelligent… I really hope for nothing but the best for him. He’s everything that is still Good about the NFL.

I just don’t want to see him hurt himself.

59

[quote]paulwhite959 wrote:
Romo just doesn’t produce. I can’t really measure how much of that is him sucking and how much is the whole Cowboy franchise under performing (it’s hard for a QB to do well with lousy protection and bad receivers).[/quote]

Romo: 31 TD’s and 9 INT
Eli: 29 TD’s and 16 INT

Way to not produce.

60

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
I don’t care how many SB’s Eli HELPS to win, he will never be greater than Dan Marino.

Then again I am biased towards QB’s from Pennsylvania. Joe Willie, Joe Montana, Dan Marino…[/quote]
Bias can be blinding. Joe Willie didn’t have but one game on his pro resume and in no way, shape or form should he be in the HOF.
Eli has had success when it counted the most and it is hard to not call him a top tier QB.
He’s a HOF’er, as is the others mentioned. Eli, Peyton, Rodgers, Drew, Brady. Heck another HOF’er is K Warner. Favre’s bust is ready too. And Big Ben is just a matter of retiring as to when he gets in.
Now if another argument is to be had, who is a first ballot? Big Ben and Favre may have a first ballot snub, as a matter of bias and ass hattery, deserved or not. The others, it may just be a matter of when they retire and the size of the crowd with them.[/quote]

I believe Namath threw for 40k yds., which seems to be the benchmark for HOF among QB’s. No one who hits than number is left out. A few years back, there was a lot of talk that Testaverde was hanging on with the Jets in hopes of getting the 2500 or so yards he needed to break the barrier.