Romney vs. Santorum; It's ON!

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
581

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Well then, tell me at what point in one’s political career could “regular guy” status start and/or end.

For instance, Jimmy Carter was once a peanut farmer. Does that make him a regular guy? When he became governor of Georgia did he cease to be a “regular guy?”

(BTW, I have a friend who grew up in Americus, GA and used to attend pool parties as a kid at the Carter’s house. He told me way back in 1980 what a jerk the folks of that area thought Jimmy was)[/quote]

Agree…because Truman was a pretty “regular” guy…

BUT…this is pretty cool! So don’t give us an answer yet, Zeb!

Mufasa[/quote]

Okay Mufasa keep guessing. Someone just might get it.

582

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Well then, tell me at what point in one’s political career could “regular guy” status start and/or end.

For instance, Jimmy Carter was once a peanut farmer. Does that make him a regular guy? When he became governor of Georgia did he cease to be a “regular guy?”

(BTW, I have a friend who grew up in Americus, GA and used to attend pool parties as a kid at the Carter’s house. He told me way back in 1980 what a jerk the folks of that area thought Jimmy was)[/quote]

Agree…because Truman was a pretty “regular” guy…

BUT…this is pretty cool! So don’t give us an answer yet, Zeb!

Mufasa[/quote]

Okay Mufasa keep guessing. Someone just might get it.[/quote]

This really depends on how you define “regular guy” Thinking about all the presidents I can remember, they all have some pretty impressive achievements in various fields that set them apart from “ordinary” people, so I would have to go with there has not really been a regular guy elected to be president of the US.

583

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Well then, tell me at what point in one’s political career could “regular guy” status start and/or end.

For instance, Jimmy Carter was once a peanut farmer. Does that make him a regular guy? When he became governor of Georgia did he cease to be a “regular guy?”

(BTW, I have a friend who grew up in Americus, GA and used to attend pool parties as a kid at the Carter’s house. He told me way back in 1980 what a jerk the folks of that area thought Jimmy was)[/quote]

Agree…because Truman was a pretty “regular” guy…

BUT…this is pretty cool! So don’t give us an answer yet, Zeb!

Mufasa[/quote]

Okay Mufasa keep guessing. Someone just might get it.[/quote]

This really depends on how you define “regular guy” Thinking about all the presidents I can remember, they all have some pretty impressive achievements in various fields that set them apart from “ordinary” people, so I would have to go with there has not really been a regular guy elected to be president of the US.
[/quote]

DING DING DING We have a winner!

So those commenting on Romney need not. The fact is the father of our country was worth (in today’s bucks) a half a billion dollars! And many others topped the 20 million dollar mark. We’ve had highly educated men, captains of industry and leaders in the military but never EVER have we had an average Joe. And we NEVER EVER will!

The fact that so many are concerned about Romney’s wealth says more about the times that we live in rather than the men who have become President. So tell the liberals to back off with the Romney comments. He actually fits right in quite well!

Good Job Dr. Matt!

585

[quote]ZEB wrote:

…So tell the liberals to back off with the Romney comments…[/quote]

C’mon, Zeb!

You know that there are a LOT of conservatives raking Romney over the coals about his wealth, his religion and his “flip-flops”…

Mufasa

586

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Well then, tell me at what point in one’s political career could “regular guy” status start and/or end.

For instance, Jimmy Carter was once a peanut farmer. Does that make him a regular guy? When he became governor of Georgia did he cease to be a “regular guy?”

(BTW, I have a friend who grew up in Americus, GA and used to attend pool parties as a kid at the Carter’s house. He told me way back in 1980 what a jerk the folks of that area thought Jimmy was)[/quote]

Agree…because Truman was a pretty “regular” guy…

BUT…this is pretty cool! So don’t give us an answer yet, Zeb!

Mufasa[/quote]

Okay Mufasa keep guessing. Someone just might get it.[/quote]

This really depends on how you define “regular guy” Thinking about all the presidents I can remember, they all have some pretty impressive achievements in various fields that set them apart from “ordinary” people, so I would have to go with there has not really been a regular guy elected to be president of the US.
[/quote]

DING DING DING We have a winner!

So those commenting on Romney need not. The fact is the father of our country was worth (in today’s bucks) a half a billion dollars! And many others topped the 20 million dollar mark. We’ve had highly educated men, captains of industry and leaders in the military but never EVER have we had an average Joe. And we NEVER EVER will!

The fact that so many are concerned about Romney’s wealth says more about the times that we live in rather than the men who have become President. So tell the liberals to back off with the Romney comments. He actually fits right in quite well!

Good Job Dr. Matt![/quote]

Sorry Zeb my friend, that was lame. A lieutenant on a nuclear sub is not all that extraordinary and yet that’s what you claimed set Carter apart. True, anyone who makes it into the sub service has achieved something special but c’mon…sheesh.
[/quote]

I’m not sure how we’d go about checking this but not many men achieve such status. As you say he did “achieve something special.” That alone separates him from the average Joe. But, as if that were not enough, he turned around a near bankrupt peanut business. How many average Joe’s turn around million dollar businesses? And then of course became Governor. How many average Joe’s become Governor?

Sorry pal Jimmy Carter was no more “average” than any of the other gentlemen who became President of this great nation.

(You’re mad because you lost the game :slight_smile:

587

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
ZEB wrote:

…So tell the liberals to back off with the Romney comments…

C’mon, Zeb!

You know that there are a LOT of conservatives raking Romney over the coals about his wealth, his religion and his “flip-flops”…
[/quote]

That’s strange Mufasa, I never said otherwise did I? Yet, when I attack the liberals for attacking Romney for being wealthy, who jumps to the liberals defense? You do. Now I’m not saying that you’re a liberal, but if you’re going to keep claiming that you’re not a liberal you better not jump to the ready when I, or another conservative attacks liberals.

:wink:

588

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
ZEB wrote:

…So tell the liberals to back off with the Romney comments…

C’mon, Zeb!

You know that there are a LOT of conservatives raking Romney over the coals about his wealth, his religion and his “flip-flops”…
[/quote]
That’s strange Mufasa, I never said otherwise did I? Yet, when I attack the liberals for attacking Romney for being wealthy, who jumps to the liberals defense? You do. Now I’m not saying that you’re a liberal, but if you’re going to keep claiming that you’re not a liberal you better not jump to the ready when I, or another conservative attacks liberals.

;)[/quote]

Nice try, Zeb.

I’ve commented more than once on how inappropriate Bill Maher can be (and was) especially with Sarah Palin…and I can’t even listen to Lawrence O’Donnell. Besides his “I’m Right/You’re Wrong” smugness…he has on more than one occasion mounted a DIRECT assault on Romney’a beliefs. I’ve also commented on him; the Fluke incidence and how she was a liberal pawn…the list goes on and on.

So…with the exception of not perceiving the President the same way you do; and questioning (but not totally disbelieving) the “MSLM” conspiracy stuff…your perception is wrong.

Mufasa

590

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Well then, tell me at what point in one’s political career could “regular guy” status start and/or end.

For instance, Jimmy Carter was once a peanut farmer. Does that make him a regular guy? When he became governor of Georgia did he cease to be a “regular guy?”

(BTW, I have a friend who grew up in Americus, GA and used to attend pool parties as a kid at the Carter’s house. He told me way back in 1980 what a jerk the folks of that area thought Jimmy was)[/quote]

Agree…because Truman was a pretty “regular” guy…

BUT…this is pretty cool! So don’t give us an answer yet, Zeb!

Mufasa[/quote]

Okay Mufasa keep guessing. Someone just might get it.[/quote]

This really depends on how you define “regular guy” Thinking about all the presidents I can remember, they all have some pretty impressive achievements in various fields that set them apart from “ordinary” people, so I would have to go with there has not really been a regular guy elected to be president of the US.
[/quote]

DING DING DING We have a winner!

So those commenting on Romney need not. The fact is the father of our country was worth (in today’s bucks) a half a billion dollars! And many others topped the 20 million dollar mark. We’ve had highly educated men, captains of industry and leaders in the military but never EVER have we had an average Joe. And we NEVER EVER will!

The fact that so many are concerned about Romney’s wealth says more about the times that we live in rather than the men who have become President. So tell the liberals to back off with the Romney comments. He actually fits right in quite well!

Good Job Dr. Matt![/quote]

Sorry Zeb my friend, that was lame. A lieutenant on a nuclear sub is not all that extraordinary and yet that’s what you claimed set Carter apart. True, anyone who makes it into the sub service has achieved something special but c’mon…sheesh.
[/quote]

I’m not sure how we’d go about checking this but not many men achieve such status. As you say he did “achieve something special.” That alone separates him from the average Joe. But, as if that were not enough, he turned around a near bankrupt peanut business. How many average Joe’s turn around million dollar businesses? And then of course became Governor. How many average Joe’s become Governor?

Sorry pal Jimmy Carter was no more “average” than any of the other gentlemen who became President of this great nation.

(You’re mad because you lost the game :)[/quote]

FWIW, I couldn’t care less about Romney’s wealth, in other words it doesn’t bother me at all.

I’m more concerned about his character, political positions, and his “Kerry/Edwards-esque-ness” (that make sense?). Successful businessman or not, he strikes me as a bit of a pansy.

Neither of the Bush’s struck me that way, nor McCain or Clinton or Dole or Reagan. Dukakis, Kerry and Edwards did. Even Carter, whom I nicknamed “Jellyfish Jimmy” a long time ago, didn’t come off TO ME as the soft hands, delicate type like your bud, Mitt.[/quote]

I don’t disagree with any of the above. Does that surprise you? But I do know that he is our best chance at beating the democrats messiah. And I also know that he has promised to end Obamacare and lower my taxes. I trust him to do these things not because he is a “stand-up guy” there are not many politicians who are. I trust him to do that because it is his only means of getting reelected (if he’s fortunate enough to win the first time around). And if there is one thing Romney is not it’s a dumb guy. Therefore, I like Romney.

I’m a bottom line sort of guy Push. I want Obama defeated at the polls and I ABSOLUTELY KNOW that santorum would get crushed vs Obama. I will support Romney all the way and I couldn’t care less if he’s a flip-flopper or even a woman in drag.

We must defeat Obama. And the more republicans start thinking that way and get off this perfect conservative craze that they’re on the faster we can put together a campaign that has at least a chance of beating the chosen one. I don’t want anymore liberal judges and left wing Presidential decrees. And with no electorate to check the man Obama will sprint to the left faster than Lindsay Lohan going for her first drink of the day.

But then again you already knew how I felt - I’m an open book when it comes to this Presidential race.

591

Romney won Illinois by a good margin last night. And other than perhaps two maybe three upcoming states he may very well sweep the remaining primaries. Both Santorum and Gingrich should coalesce around their future nominee. There are key positions that need to be filled should Romney pull off an upset and beat Obama.

592

Santorum recently said that maybe American would be better off with Obama than a possible Romney presidency. There are aspects of Santorum that are likable - this is not one of them, and is very disappointing. In an age of pettiness, we need candidates to be more statesmanlike, and Santorum went for petty.

593

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Santorum recently said that maybe American would be better off with Obama than a possible Romney presidency. There are aspects of Santorum that are likable - this is not one of them, and is very disappointing. In an age of pettiness, we need candidates to be more statesmanlike, and Santorum went for petty.[/quote]

My wife commented on that the other night. While Santorum does have some great qualities he’s carrying this rivalry a bit too far. And of course the problem with that is the MSLM will replay these clips during the Obama/Romney general election. But perhaps that’s exactly what Santorum wants. If Romney loses Santorum feels that he would be in line to capture the nomination in four years. Republicans didn’t use to do this. Anyway, I do like Santorum but if he keeps this up he will be burning important republican bridges that could have otherwise helped him to that nomination down the road. Politics is a full contact sport, but it’s also a team sport something Santorum would be wise to remember.

594

Guess Romney (aka Mr. Etch-a-Sketch) conservative, and his enablers should’ve thought of that before giving the nod, out of the starting gate, to Romney’s big-spending negative campaign. Romney already burned his bridges. If somehow Romney won the WH (and he has no chance), he would ruin the electoral chances for future Republicans.

Edit: Or, are we pretending the arrogance of Romney’s camp wasn’t on display when his man assured the media that Romney was simply saying the stuff he needed to say to win the primary. And that like an etch-a-sketch, they’d shake it up and start over for the general.

595

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Guess Romney (aka Mr. Etch-a-Sketch) conservative, and his enablers should’ve thought of that before giving the nod, out of the starting gate, to Romney’s big-spending negative campaign. Romney already burned his bridges. If somehow Romney won the WH (and he has no chance), he would ruin the electoral chances for future Republicans.

Edit: Or, are we pretending the arrogance of Romney’s camp wasn’t on display when his man assured the media that Romney was simply saying the stuff he needed to say to win the primary. And that like an etch-a-sketch, they’d shake it up and start over for the general.[/quote]

First things first, while Romney’s Super P’s did (in the beginning especially) run a negative campaign I don’t ever recall him saying that Obama would be better than Santorum. And that IS my issue with Santorum currently. I don’t really blame the guy for hanging in there because, even though the odds are huge against him this is politics and you never know. But saying that Obama would be better than Romney borders on (political) treason. That was upsetting to hear from another republican and something you won’t hear any of the other three. Santorum needs to back off from that type of rhetoric.

As for the “shake it up” comment, I told you a long time ago that I don’t care that Romney is not as conservative as Santorum, or anyone else. I know we disagree on who is the better candidate vs Obama. However, I understand who wins elections and how they’re won and I know that Romney has the best chance of beating Obama. I’ve made no secret why I back Romney. The media and Santorum’s own mouth will not allow him to win the nomination much less the Presidency…this time around. But, I do like him and what he represents. But I also know at the end of the day if Obama is still President after January 2013 that it matters not how conservative his opponent was.

But I do think should Romney win the Presidency that he’ll govern far more from the center right than you think. You’ve read my many posts as to why so I won’t bore you with the details.

596

Here’s why I don’t think Santorum is the best man to win the race (in dialogue form):

Santorum: “The biggest challenge facing our country is the continuance of irresponsible, generation-crushing deficits, most recently made worse by a federal health care entitlement that mortages the future of our children and our children’s chidlren.”

Obama: “Didn’t you vote for Medicare Part D, which was both (1) a brand new federal health care entitlement, and (2) a massive unfunded liabiilty which piles deficits on top of deficits for future generations”?

Santorum: “Um, yeah, but I was just kidding.”

597

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Here’s why I don’t think Santorum is the best man to win the race (in dialogue form):

Santorum: “The biggest challenge facing our country is the continuance of irresponsible, generation-crushing deficits, most recently made worse by a federal health care entitlement that mortages the future of our children and our children’s chidlren.”

Obama: “Didn’t you vote for Medicare Part D, which was both (1) a brand new federal health care entitlement, and (2) a massive unfunded liabiilty which piles deficits on top of deficits for future generations”?

Santorum: “Um, yeah, but I was just kidding.”[/quote]

Yeah, but I doubt Obama would use number 2.

Very hard to do that without opening a whole can of worms regarding his “achievements” and he is not the best when it comes to thinking on his feet.

If he did that with Gingrich he would go down in flames.

598

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Here’s why I don’t think Santorum is the best man to win the race (in dialogue form):

Santorum: “The biggest challenge facing our country is the continuance of irresponsible, generation-crushing deficits, most recently made worse by a federal health care entitlement that mortages the future of our children and our children’s chidlren.”

Obama: “Didn’t you vote for Medicare Part D, which was both (1) a brand new federal health care entitlement, and (2) a massive unfunded liabiilty which piles deficits on top of deficits for future generations”?

Santorum: “Um, yeah, but I was just kidding.”[/quote]

If you think this will be difficult, imagine the TARP, Cap and trade, and Obamacare ‘debate’ that’ll happen between Romney and Obama.

599

[quote]Sloth wrote:

If you think this will be difficult, imagine the TARP, Cap and trade, and Obamacare ‘debate’ that’ll happen between Romney and Obama.[/quote]

How does Santorum differentiate, though? I think there is a substantive difference between a TARP and a Medicare Part D (it doesn’t really help Santorum, though, it cuts the other way), but in the larger message, how does Santorum explain his votes?

Santorum isn’t calling for a repeal of Part D, so Obama (or one of his surrogates) can have a field day with this.

600

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

Santorum isn’t calling for a repeal of Part D, so Obama (or one of his surrogates) can have a field day with this.[/quote]

How is Obama going to have a field day with Medicare Part D? Is he going to argue against it? Or, demonstrate that Santorum’s non position of repealing part D is simply primary talk?

Romney is weak because he actually can’t challenge Obama on Obamacare, though he will attempt to (at least through the primaries). The first day of the general election campaign, it will be wall to wall coverage of the 2009 version of Romney offering up Robamacare as a model to Obama. Then the video footage of him defending the success, principle, and mechanics of a mandated health-care system in the republican debates (of all places).

That’s the problem, we’re supposed to be running against Obamacare this election. Romney is going to be disarmed on the issue the first day. Instead, he’ll look a guy who only adopted the position in order to have something to oppose Obama on. And with his history on the issue, he’ll be ridiculed as an empty-suited opportunist of the highest caliber, from the right and the left.

edit: His republican challengers don’t have to money and organization to saturate the nation with the story of Mr. Etch-a-Sketch. But Obama will.