Romney 2012?

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Oh God, not Palin…I neither hate her on a personal level like others, or think she’s the answer to what ills. I’m sure she does fine in Alaska, but I really hope she won’t looked to as a champion in some future Republican comeback.

Please god no. She’s not what the Republican party or the country needs. Furthermore, she alienated enough people in this election as the VP choice. If she were the Republican nominee, it would be sheer political suicide.[/quote]

How much longer do we need to hear the anti-Palin bitch fest?

You are not a conservative, so your opinion on what needs to happen wrt a conservative movement in this country means about as much as one of vroom’s thinking tree speeches.

Palin will have a long, long career on the national political scene. I think she will be president one day. I have thought that since I first read about her.

In addition to lower spending, lower taxes and less government, I would add less preachiness, less bible-thumping, less divisiveness and less bigotry. In other words, smaller government in ALL respects. That includes keeping their noses the fuck out of people’s private lives and religions (or lack thereof, as the case may be).

We’ve seen what happens when you elect a know-nothing incompetent simply because he tows the “pro-Jesus” line and he “seems like a guy you’d wanna’ have a beer with,” ignoring all other areas of relevance to the job of being president: Said incompetent goes on to ruin the world.

Never again.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
The right needs to move back to the principles that created the revolt in 1994: unabashed conservatism. Lower spending, lower taxes, less government. They sold out the ones who put them in office, and the country will be paying for the defection for a long time.
[/quote]

[quote]vroom wrote:
As said, the republicans are going to have to redefine themselves before figuring out who should be on top of the next ticket.

A little bit less ideology and more reality might help.

However, the republican party is welcome to become the party of angry old white men, that will ensure it a string of losses…[/quote]

More musings from the canadian thinking tree.

You don’t know enough about US politics to offer any opinion, and you damn sure don’t know anything about being a conservative.

It was a bunch of “angry old white men” who started the last revolution. Seems they might be the only people on this continent with any balls.

[quote]Damici wrote:
In addition to lower spending, lower taxes and less government, I would add less preachiness, less bible-thumping, less divisiveness and less bigotry. In other words, smaller government in ALL respects. That includes keeping their noses the fuck out of people’s private lives and religions (or lack thereof, as the case may be).[/quote]

Preachiness? Like what?

Bigotry? Like What?

Bible Thumping? When?

So you want to legislate how much religion someone should express?

Fuck the 1st amendment much?

[quote]We’ve seen what happens when you elect a know-nothing incompetent simply because he tows the “pro-Jesus” line and he “seems like a guy you’d wanna’ have a beer with,” ignoring all other areas of relevance to the job of being president: Said incompetent goes on to ruin the world.

Never again.[/quote]

So a Yale grad with a Harvard MBA is now a know nothing?

Being “Pro-Jesus” has dick to do with why the republicans lost. It has everything to do with selling the electorate up the river.

The last thing a conservative movement needs is people with your fear and bigotry trying to unite anyone.

What the fuck?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
More musings from the canadian thinking tree.

You don’t know enough about US politics to offer any opinion, and you damn sure don’t know anything about being a conservative.

It was a bunch of “angry old white men” who started the last revolution. Seems they might be the only people on this continent with any balls. [/quote]

All you have is hate… that’s pretty weak.

Hmm, actually, you fit right in with the republican party these days, maybe you should run for office?

Anyway, you go ahead and assume you know everything about me… based on your own ideological characterizations of “the enemy”, that style of divisiveness might be a winning strategy!

Palin WILL try to stay on the national political scene, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she runs for (and becomes) a U.S. senator some day. But she will never, ever, ever, EVER be President. I’m not just saying that because I think she’s an incompetent clown (which I do), I’m saying that because it’s the political reality of her situation.

There’s really no “bitching” that needs to be done regarding Sarah Palin. She is not remotely qualified for the job of President (which is what the VP needs to be ready to do), and she never was. She’s not even close to being qualified.

If you agree with her general political positions on things that’s fine, but agreeing with someone’s political stances and judging their competency and qualifications for the job are two VERY different things.

Did you not SEE her interviews with Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson? Did you not HEAR what she said about what she thought the job description of VP was? Have you not heard what the insiders of the McCain/Palin campaign itself have said about her needing more coaching on every subject than any candidate of any kind they’ve ever dealt with??

Jeezus, this is not about personal vendettas OR political positions. She is not remotely qualified for the job! The President should be the best and brightest we can find. Palin could be out-debated by the better half of most halfway decent high school classes. Vladimir Putin may be evil, but he’s an evil genius. He would run CIRCLES around her. So would the (extremely smart, even if religiously nutty) guys running the show in Iran. (Ahmadinejad is not the guy running the show there). We would continue to be the laughingstock of the world.

Time to raise expectations. For God’s sake, man. It’s time.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Oh God, not Palin…I neither hate her on a personal level like others, or think she’s the answer to what ills. I’m sure she does fine in Alaska, but I really hope she won’t looked to as a champion in some future Republican comeback.

Please god no. She’s not what the Republican party or the country needs. Furthermore, she alienated enough people in this election as the VP choice. If she were the Republican nominee, it would be sheer political suicide.

How much longer do we need to hear the anti-Palin bitch fest?

You are not a conservative, so your opinion on what needs to happen wrt a conservative movement in this country means about as much as one of vroom’s thinking tree speeches.

Palin will have a long, long career on the national political scene. I think she will be president one day. I have thought that since I first read about her.

[/quote]

[quote]vroom wrote:
Anyway, you go ahead and assume you know everything about me… based on your own ideological characterizations of “the enemy”, that style of divisiveness might be a winning strategy![/quote]

I know a shit ton more about you than you think. But that is neither here nor there.

I am only commenting on your musings. I happen to think you a far cry from the genius you want everyone to think you are. You haven’t changed a bit. Still a nutless wonder.

So is “ideology” your word of the week?

Obama used divisiveness quite effectively. Does he get the canadian finger wag as well? Somehow I doubt you will do a fucking thing to the new baby jesus - you have too much hatred for the angry white men.

I’m not sure why divisiveness is such a sin. To agree with everyone, and never actually take a stand on anything is a gutless, thinking tree way of living.

[quote]Damici wrote:
There’s really no “bitching” that needs to be done regarding Sarah Palin. She is not remotely qualified for the job of President (which is what the VP needs to be ready to do), and she never was. She’s not even close to being qualified.

If you agree with her general political positions on things that’s fine, but agreeing with someone’s political stances and judging their competency and qualifications for the job are two VERY different things.

Did you not SEE her interviews with Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson? Did you not HEAR what she said about what she thought the job description of VP was? Have you not heard what the insiders of the McCain/Palin campaign itself have said about her needing more coaching on every subject than any candidate of any kind they’ve ever dealt with??[/quote]

This is key.

How in the hell can a party imagine that it can convince a populace of a lie when the plain truth is clearly visible to anyone that isn’t drunk on kool-aid?

Even many members of the republican party have been having difficulty swallowing the amount of spin needed to keep her candidacy afloat.

To rebuild the party it will be necessary for people to see beyond what I’m calling ideology or party lines and be able to see and speak the truth.

Distract, deflect and discredit has been done.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
So is “ideology” your word of the week?
[/quote]

That, and kool-aid.

Basically, you rarely see why anything I’m concerned about is worthy of discussion. That’s fine. I’m more than happy we don’t see eye to eye.

As for taking a stand, you are off your rocker. I take and defend my views on things all the time. The fact you don’t agree with them or perhaps want things expressed in simple black and white is your problem, not mine.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Damici wrote:
There’s really no “bitching” that needs to be done regarding Sarah Palin. She is not remotely qualified for the job of President (which is what the VP needs to be ready to do), and she never was. She’s not even close to being qualified.

If you agree with her general political positions on things that’s fine, but agreeing with someone’s political stances and judging their competency and qualifications for the job are two VERY different things.

Did you not SEE her interviews with Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson? Did you not HEAR what she said about what she thought the job description of VP was? Have you not heard what the insiders of the McCain/Palin campaign itself have said about her needing more coaching on every subject than any candidate of any kind they’ve ever dealt with??

This is key.

How in the hell can a party imagine that it can convince a populace of a lie when the plain truth is clearly visible to anyone that isn’t drunk on kool-aid?

Even many members of the republican party have been having difficulty swallowing the amount of spin needed to keep her candidacy afloat.

To rebuild the party it will be necessary for people to see beyond what I’m calling ideology or party lines and be able to see and speak the truth.

Distract, deflect and discredit has been done.[/quote]

Why are you fixaed on “rebuilding” a party you know nothing about?

Trust me - no one really cares what a fucking liberal canadian has to say about rebuilding something he knows nothing about.

Why do you think you have any insights to this? Your cure is to hold hands and sing kumbaya. That is not rebuildign the party. That is doing exactly what they tried to doe from 2004-2006, and it cost them the balance of power.

It amazes me how many people can tell you you are an idiot and you still think you are smarter than everyone.

We need someone to bring Republicans back to the right. The majority of America sees Bush as a radical conservative, when in fact, he is not.

I like Newt, but the media will have a field day with him, especially when their child’s head is on the chopping block.

[quote]vroom wrote:
rainjack wrote:
So is “ideology” your word of the week?

That, and kool-aid.

I’m not sure why divisiveness is such a sin. To agree with everyone, and never actually take a stand on anything is a gutless, thinking tree way of living.

Basically, you rarely see why anything I’m concerned about is worthy of discussion. That’s fine. I’m more than happy we don’t see eye to eye.

As for taking a stand, you are off your rocker. I take and defend my views on things all the time. The fact you don’t agree with them or perhaps want things expressed in simple black and white is your problem, not mine.[/quote]

You have a long, embarrassing history of being proud of never taking a stand, and abhoring the black and white.

I have been watching you post in this forum for several years, and you have never taken a stand other than to defend your position on the fence.

I guess the topic for the week is going to be “Ideologies: who needs them?” And you are on a weight training site that is about as ideological as one can possibly be. Maybe you should think about irony for a few days.

What preachiness? The preachiness that the Republican party has been trying to shove down other’s throats because THEY (the Repubs) don’t approve of those people’s lifestyles and viewpoints. Preachiness like wanting to overturn Roe vs. Wade even though the majority of the country doesn’t want that to happen. And worse still, some (not all) Republicans want to outlaw abortion even in cases of rape, incest or where the health of the mother is at stake.

That’s injecting YOUR beliefs/mores (which happen to be in the MINORITY) into other people’s lives, and they resent it. Oh, and worse still, being willing to elect a complete incompetent to the office of the presidency because they agree with you on a silly social issue like this.

Preachiness like wasting time on stupid social shit like trying to get the 10 Commandments posted in schools. WTF??! Separation of church and state, anybody?? They may not be the most harmful lines ever written, but why the fuck should one group’s religious proclamations be shoved down the throats of others??

Where – on – EARTH did I ever say I wanted to "legislate how much religion someone should express?? Nowhere. You, I, politicians and everyone else are free to express their religion as much as they want. BUT, if you’re a politician running for office, you might just find that people who don’t have the same beliefs that you’re so certain of start to resent you preaching your mores to them and trying to impose your mores on them through LEGISLATION.

See? That’s the problem.
As I think Bill Maher pointed out when he was talking to a Senator from some southern state, it bothers me that someone who believes in a talking snake is in a major position of power to affect legislation in this country.

It bothers a lot of people.

You and everyone else have every right to have your beliefs, to express them and to celebrate them. Just don’t expect to get ELECTED (at least to the presidency anytime soon) if you keep shoving them in people’s faces and trying to LEGISLATE in close accordance with them.

W. may have gone to Yale and Harvard but everyone who went there along with him will tell you that he was basically just skimming by. Regardless of Ivy League pedigree, my point about “best and brightest” was about more than schooling pedigree – it was about overall intellect, intellectual curiosity and ability to express things, including their own (hopefully well thought-out) ideas in great detail and clarity.

It is and always has been painfully clear that both W. and Palin fail MISERABLY on all of those fronts. Bush once stated that he wasn’t much of a “reader,” and it always showed. He has no intellectual curiosity, and he illustrated that when he went about ruining the world piece-by-piece because he can’t comprehend the concept of nuance (among other things).

Bill Clinton, for example (whose politics I disagree with 99.8% of the time) – putting his politics aside – is the polar opposite of that. So is Barack Obama. Each one of them could have a three-hour, one-on-one conversation with you, with no notes, about foreign policy, healthcare, the economic crisis, the global AIDS problem, etc. and ASTOUND you with the breadth and depth of their knowledge on those subjects.

Bill Clinton especially, despite my personal distaste for him on many fronts, is ASTOUNDINGLY intelligent, and this comes across in in-depth interviews with him.

The Republicans need to drop the redneck “let’s appeal to the lowest common denominator (who don’t like smart people)” bullshit and find someone of that intellectual and executive capability. (Only one who of course believes in true fiscal conservatism and strong national defense – oh, and LEAVE IT AT THAT).

Of course things other than bible-thumping contributed to the Republicans’ loss tonight – Bush let spending get out of control, he’s been botching 2 wars, they never had a consistent message, etc.

But the very idea that someone wants to nominate the likes of Sarah Palin (?) to fix everything for the party?? THAT’S the problem that the bible-thumpers cause in this party, which you’re not seeing – they’re willing to nominate someone JUST because she’s evangelical like them, and agrees with their social mores, even though she’s completely and utterly unqualified for the job. THAT’S the problem we got when W. was nominated in 2000, and you want to go through THAT again?

Do some people never learn?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Damici wrote:
In addition to lower spending, lower taxes and less government, I would add less preachiness, less bible-thumping, less divisiveness and less bigotry. In other words, smaller government in ALL respects. That includes keeping their noses the fuck out of people’s private lives and religions (or lack thereof, as the case may be).

Preachiness? Like what?

Bigotry? Like What?

Bible Thumping? When?

So you want to legislate how much religion someone should express?

Fuck the 1st amendment much?

We’ve seen what happens when you elect a know-nothing incompetent simply because he tows the “pro-Jesus” line and he “seems like a guy you’d wanna’ have a beer with,” ignoring all other areas of relevance to the job of being president: Said incompetent goes on to ruin the world.

Never again.

So a Yale grad with a Harvard MBA is now a know nothing?

Being “Pro-Jesus” has dick to do with why the republicans lost. It has everything to do with selling the electorate up the river.

The last thing a conservative movement needs is people with your fear and bigotry trying to unite anyone.

What the fuck? [/quote]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Damici wrote:
In addition to lower spending, lower taxes and less government, I would add less preachiness, less bible-thumping, less divisiveness and less bigotry. In other words, smaller government in ALL respects. That includes keeping their noses the fuck out of people’s private lives and religions (or lack thereof, as the case may be).

Preachiness? Like what? [/quote]

Come on now Rainjack the Republicans have been preachy for years. If you can’t see that you are in denial.

[quote]
Bigotry? Like What? [/quote]

The longest running thread in the PWI forum has been the gay marriage thread and you have to ask about bigotry?

[quote]
Bible Thumping? When? [/quote]

Oh no you didn’t! The Republicans have been fanatically thumping bibles ever since the days of Ronald Reagan and the moral majority. Since the eighties the Republicans have been acting like modern day Pharises and it has alienated a lot of people including church going people.

With the older generations of voters who grew up going to church dying off that whole wearing your religion on your sleeve as a badge of honor to show off to everyone has lost it’s appeal.

Noone likes Pharises except other Pharises. Even Jesus couldn’t stand Pharises. Read Luke sometime.

[quote]
So you want to legislate how much religion someone should express? [/quote]

No but when there was a time when going to church was ubiquitous our politics were more civil and not as polarized. Because people did not inject their different religious beliefs into politics. [quote]

Fuck the 1st amendment much?

We’ve seen what happens when you elect a know-nothing incompetent simply because he tows the “pro-Jesus” line and he “seems like a guy you’d wanna’ have a beer with,” ignoring all other areas of relevance to the job of being president: Said incompetent goes on to ruin the world.

Never again.

So a Yale grad with a Harvard MBA is now a know nothing?

Being “Pro-Jesus” has dick to do with why the republicans lost. It has everything to do with selling the electorate up the river.

The last thing a conservative movement needs is people with your fear and bigotry trying to unite anyone.

What the fuck? [/quote]

Obama went to a church regularly for years, but he didn’t constantly put it in everyones face that he believes in Jesus more than anyone else, like George Bush does.

Even Mike Huckaby who is an ordained minister didn’t put his religion up in everyones face and act like a pharise like Bush does.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Why are you fixaed on “rebuilding” a party you know nothing about?[/quote]

A credible republican party would have a much better chance of exerting an effect on spending. Some segment of democrats do go a bit crazy with the idea of growing government…

I’ve said many times, and I mean it, that no one ideology has all the answers. Both parties bring something to the table… and both parties need to be credible (which the republicans aren’t doing a good job of right now) to make sure clear thinking or pressure is exerted from both sides.

[quote]Trust me - no one really cares what a fucking liberal canadian has to say about rebuilding something he knows nothing about.

Why do you think you have any insights to this? Your cure is to hold hands and sing kumbaya. That is not rebuildign the party. That is doing exactly what they tried to doe from 2004-2006, and it cost them the balance of power.

It amazes me how many people can tell you you are an idiot and you still think you are smarter than everyone.[/quote]

I heard you the first 3000 times. Anyway, while I do at times think you are dumber than a stump, I don’t claim to be smart, though I will admit to being opinionated.

Go figure.

Quit worrying about 2012. The world will end that year so it doesn’t matter who wins that year.

At least now I know why it ends that year.

[quote]analog_kid wrote:
Still no love for Ron Paul, Zap? Granted in 2012 he will be creeping up on 80.
[/quote]

I don’t like the gold standard, Paul’s stance on the war or some of the nuts he associated himself with.

He was the wrong man.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Oh God, not Palin…I neither hate her on a personal level like others, or think she’s the answer to what ills. I’m sure she does fine in Alaska, but I really hope she won’t looked to as a champion in some future Republican comeback.

Please god no. She’s not what the Republican party or the country needs. Furthermore, she alienated enough people in this election as the VP choice. If she were the Republican nominee, it would be sheer political suicide.

How much longer do we need to hear the anti-Palin bitch fest?

You are not a conservative, so your opinion on what needs to happen wrt a conservative movement in this country means about as much as one of vroom’s thinking tree speeches.

Palin will have a long, long career on the national political scene. I think she will be president one day. I have thought that since I first read about her.

[/quote]

No I’m not conservative. But I do support fiscal responsibility, curbing wasteful spending, and good governance and management. And that’s what the Republican party needs to redefine itself as.

Sorry, but you anti-government people are a decided minority. Most of us are pro good-governance and competent management. And would like to see a streamlined, effective government.

Republicans will never succeeed just by catering to ‘true conservatives.’ If they have a hope, they need to court moderate voters who are disillusioned by the overall Democrat approach and Democrat willingness to waste money on poorly thought-out programs.

Palin will not be president. John McCain might have been if he struck a middle-of-the road approach that still deviated from the clusterfuck of Democrat policy and the even BIGGER cluster-fuck of the last 8 years. Instead he chose Palin to shore up the conservative base, and while he may have done that, he pissed off many thousands.

[quote]vroom wrote:

A little bit less ideology and more reality might help.

…[/quote]

Seriously?

If this election was about ideology the moderate McCain would have won 50 states.

The American people do not understand Obama’s radical ideology or they would not have elected him.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
tedro wrote:
Jindal will be 41 in 2012. The electorate has shown that being charismatic, youthful, and a minority is more important than any issue. Jindal is a prime example of these, and also a wonderful example of an immigrant family living the American Dream through hard work.

I don’t agree with all of his policies, but there shouldn’t be any problem getting both social-conservatives and small government conservatives behind him. I really think that right now he is our best shot in 2012, if he chooses to run.

I think you are reading WAY too much into Obama’s election. The fact that he is black has voting to do with his election.

Hillary would have had a Reaganesque landslide had she won the nomination.

The right needs to move back to the principles that created the revolt in 1994: unabashed conservatism. Lower spending, lower taxes, less government. They sold out the ones who put them in office, and the country will be paying for the defection for a long time.
[/quote]

Totally agree with this–
“unabashed conservatism. Lower spending, lower taxes, less government.”
That politician would get my vote.
The GOP has become an identity politics party–its main appeal is to Christianists who who demand a singularity in a candidate’s superstitious beliefs. It has become a Religious big Government party. Fuck the moronic base–the young, the educated arent interested in fear and religious pandering. The GOP needs to move beyond that.