IMO,if the bible specifically says something,unless somewhere else it says something different,a christian must live by what it says. The scriptures are not for private interpretation,they have specific meaning. Its not hard,if the bible says for example not to fornicate…if you wanna fornicate go for it,but be real with yourself and others and don’t say I am a christian,I am just not going to do that part of christianity. Confusion
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Bushcraft? [/quote]
Any woman that makes me use a sword, isn’t my kind of woman.
[quote]pabergin wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
Thanks for the response. I’m not necessarily pro abortion. No matter my situation I would want the child to be born and would do my best as a father to raise it. But i think others should have a choice. If you believe in god i don’t think it’s your job to judge. I think my biggest reason for allowing abortion is that if you make it illegal people will find other means of getting it done.
In the case of war i don’t think collateral damage is really taken much into consideration. it really isn’t a matter of “if” there will be collateral damage. There will always be collateral damage and those life are chosen to be aborted regardless of age. So the decision to murder innocent people is accepted, whether it’s justified all depends on which side your on.
And i agree abortion is targeting of only innocent lives.
[/quote]
Yeah, I get it and a lot of people feel the way you do. “It’s not for me personally, but I don’t want to stop others…”.
I don’t understand this line of reasoning for the following reason. If you understand what the process is and what it does, in other words people deliberately, willfully terminating a human life and you believe in general that such type of killing is wrong, how can you consciously allow it, in the society you live in and are force to interact with? In other words, if you against humans killing each other, and abortion is killing another human, how can you support somebody else doing that?
This isn’t a “My business” and “your business” issue. It’s a life and death issue. There is no difference between go next door and shooting your neighbor and killing a child en utero save for the method and location. The result is the same, a human life is taken.
It’s not an issue of personal rights or what a person wants to do with their own body. If they want to cut their finger off and ram it up their own ass, I don’t care. But I do care if people kill their own children. I do care that Casey Anthony killed her own baby. It’s not my baby, their family is none of my business until your start killing off members of your family. That becomes everybody’s business. In the same way, killing your own child whether in the uterus or in the crib is the same thing. And that’s why I don’t understand the “I wouldn’t do it myself, but it’s none of my business if somebody else does.”
If abortion kills a human life, and we are against killing human lives then it should not be allowed, regardless of whether people will do it anyway. For every law on a book there is a person breaking that law. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have the laws.
We cannot totally stop people from having abortions anymore than we can stop any other type of murder. People murder anyway, people will have abortions anyway, hopefully not as many. Because then as a society as a country we will have recognized clearly, that the truth is, abortion is murder, murder is morally wrong and we live in a society that recognizes and abides by basic objective moral constructs, in order to have a free functioning society where one’s freedom stops only on the encroachment of another’s.
It’s not judgement that I seek. I seek the recognition of the truth, seeing this action for what it really is. I recognize that many of those who have had abortions, are not fully understanding what they are doing because the law is murky and they don’t know the truth. [/quote]
Pat
thank you for this post and others like it
[/quote]
Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate you taking the time to read it.
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
Thanks for the response. I’m not necessarily pro abortion. No matter my situation I would want the child to be born and would do my best as a father to raise it. But i think others should have a choice. If you believe in god i don’t think it’s your job to judge. I think my biggest reason for allowing abortion is that if you make it illegal people will find other means of getting it done.
In the case of war i don’t think collateral damage is really taken much into consideration. it really isn’t a matter of “if” there will be collateral damage. There will always be collateral damage and those life are chosen to be aborted regardless of age. So the decision to murder innocent people is accepted, whether it’s justified all depends on which side your on.
And i agree abortion is targeting of only innocent lives.
[/quote]
Yeah, I get it and a lot of people feel the way you do. “It’s not for me personally, but I don’t want to stop others…”.
I don’t understand this line of reasoning for the following reason. If you understand what the process is and what it does, in other words people deliberately, willfully terminating a human life and you believe in general that such type of killing is wrong, how can you consciously allow it, in the society you live in and are force to interact with? In other words, if you against humans killing each other, and abortion is killing another human, how can you support somebody else doing that?
This isn’t a “My business” and “your business” issue. It’s a life and death issue. There is no difference between go next door and shooting your neighbor and killing a child en utero save for the method and location. The result is the same, a human life is taken.
It’s not an issue of personal rights or what a person wants to do with their own body. If they want to cut their finger off and ram it up their own ass, I don’t care. But I do care if people kill their own children. I do care that Casey Anthony killed her own baby. It’s not my baby, their family is none of my business until your start killing off members of your family. That becomes everybody’s business. In the same way, killing your own child whether in the uterus or in the crib is the same thing. And that’s why I don’t understand the “I wouldn’t do it myself, but it’s none of my business if somebody else does.”
If abortion kills a human life, and we are against killing human lives then it should not be allowed, regardless of whether people will do it anyway. For every law on a book there is a person breaking that law. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have the laws.
We cannot totally stop people from having abortions anymore than we can stop any other type of murder. People murder anyway, people will have abortions anyway, hopefully not as many. Because then as a society as a country we will have recognized clearly, that the truth is, abortion is murder, murder is morally wrong and we live in a society that recognizes and abides by basic objective moral constructs, in order to have a free functioning society where one’s freedom stops only on the encroachment of another’s.
It’s not judgement that I seek. I seek the recognition of the truth, seeing this action for what it really is. I recognize that many of those who have had abortions, are not fully understanding what they are doing because the law is murky and they don’t know the truth. [/quote]
i think it is judgement. your judging their actions. let god deal with them.
[/quote]
Your English sucks.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
Thanks for the response. I’m not necessarily pro abortion. No matter my situation I would want the child to be born and would do my best as a father to raise it. But i think others should have a choice. If you believe in god i don’t think it’s your job to judge. I think my biggest reason for allowing abortion is that if you make it illegal people will find other means of getting it done.
In the case of war i don’t think collateral damage is really taken much into consideration. it really isn’t a matter of “if” there will be collateral damage. There will always be collateral damage and those life are chosen to be aborted regardless of age. So the decision to murder innocent people is accepted, whether it’s justified all depends on which side your on.
And i agree abortion is targeting of only innocent lives.
[/quote]
Yeah, I get it and a lot of people feel the way you do. “It’s not for me personally, but I don’t want to stop others…”.
I don’t understand this line of reasoning for the following reason. If you understand what the process is and what it does, in other words people deliberately, willfully terminating a human life and you believe in general that such type of killing is wrong, how can you consciously allow it, in the society you live in and are force to interact with? In other words, if you against humans killing each other, and abortion is killing another human, how can you support somebody else doing that?
This isn’t a “My business” and “your business” issue. It’s a life and death issue. There is no difference between go next door and shooting your neighbor and killing a child en utero save for the method and location. The result is the same, a human life is taken.
It’s not an issue of personal rights or what a person wants to do with their own body. If they want to cut their finger off and ram it up their own ass, I don’t care. But I do care if people kill their own children. I do care that Casey Anthony killed her own baby. It’s not my baby, their family is none of my business until your start killing off members of your family. That becomes everybody’s business. In the same way, killing your own child whether in the uterus or in the crib is the same thing. And that’s why I don’t understand the “I wouldn’t do it myself, but it’s none of my business if somebody else does.”
If abortion kills a human life, and we are against killing human lives then it should not be allowed, regardless of whether people will do it anyway. For every law on a book there is a person breaking that law. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have the laws.
We cannot totally stop people from having abortions anymore than we can stop any other type of murder. People murder anyway, people will have abortions anyway, hopefully not as many. Because then as a society as a country we will have recognized clearly, that the truth is, abortion is murder, murder is morally wrong and we live in a society that recognizes and abides by basic objective moral constructs, in order to have a free functioning society where one’s freedom stops only on the encroachment of another’s.
It’s not judgement that I seek. I seek the recognition of the truth, seeing this action for what it really is. I recognize that many of those who have had abortions, are not fully understanding what they are doing because the law is murky and they don’t know the truth. [/quote]
i think it is judgement. your judging their actions. let god deal with them.
[/quote]
Your English sucks.[/quote]
At the office typing on my phone. Not proof reading.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
It’s not judgement that I seek. I seek the recognition of the truth, seeing this action for what it really is. I recognize that many of those who have had abortions, are not fully understanding what they are doing because the law is murky and they don’t know the truth. [/quote]
Wait, what?
You’d like to see Roe v Wade overturned, so it is judgement that you seek, isn’t it?[/quote]
I either want abortion to be illegal or murder to be legal.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
But it doesn’t track well with your narrative when one is honest. Jesus also turned the water into wine; should all believers do that (don’t answer that, LOL)?[/quote]
I can turn wine into water.[/quote]
I can turn beer into piss.
There’s a difference between judging a person’s worth and determining (judging) if a behavior is acceptable/unacceptable.
Separate the sin from the sinner.
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I have had no scripture quoted to me that in any way indicates violence is ok. [/quote]
Any that specifically say “you have to allow violence be done upon you”?
None of the ones you’ve put up say that. [/quote]
Apparently Jesus endorsed the international socialist program because he and his disciples lived a communal lifestyle. Communal lifestyle = advocates a stateless, international “dictatorship of the proletariat” and the abolition of all private property. You can make Jesus endorse just about anything with a few verses out if context and an elaborate imagination.
[/quote]
how about just logically refuting what I have quoted,with your own scripture. Not explanations of how christians live now etc…I quoted several scriptures,but rather than consider carefully what they say, you just dismiss them because its not what you would like christianity to be. This is unfortunate
[/quote]
He already broke down why your offered up passages were bunk.
Next.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote] countingbeans wrote:
The first clause uses “revenge” which implies you were TAKEN advantage of, past tense. Therefor, don’t seek out to harm those that have harmed you, and instead (second clause) offer forgiveness, remain open to him and move about your life.
[/quote]
Yep. It’s pretty simple. You’d have to have an ideological agenda to interpret that as a proscription of self defence. And I’ve yet to hear from radical pacifists what Jesus wanted swords for of all things. Shaving? Bushcraft? Industrial strength letter opener?[/quote]
I will disagree with that one. You need to merely read the words of the several scriptures I quoted and believe what that say with an open mind. A few last thoughts on this. Several of my posts have turned up a page or ,2 back with some replies. I do not believe in pacifism. I like guns,although I am not an expert on them,I just enjoy shooting them. I don’t believe the responses given to the scriptures I quoted refute them. I don’t know how a christian nation,which the supreme court has declared the USA in the past(tell me the last athiest that admitted that!) Is to behave regarding war etc…the bible doesn’t tell us. As I said I try to keep it real and just gave one defense against my arguments. Shall we go on to where I prove,using the scriptures,that most christians break at least one of the 10 commandments? Confusion
[quote]confusion wrote:
so if I used assault rifle incorrectly,well…[/quote]
Yeah, you did. No worries. It’s a minor inconsequencial thing.
The only reason you got it wrong is because the media is largely populated by anti-gun leftists who are just Useful Idiots for the Global Elite looking to enslave the unarmed masses.
Okay, may have tossed in some tin foil in that last part there. But yeah, the media calls any gun painted black “assault rifle” or “glock”. Because those sound scary, and they are racist, so it gets clicks on websites.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I have had no scripture quoted to me that in any way indicates violence is ok. [/quote]
Any that specifically say “you have to allow violence be done upon you”?
None of the ones you’ve put up say that. [/quote]
Apparently Jesus endorsed the international socialist program because he and his disciples lived a communal lifestyle. Communal lifestyle = advocates a stateless, international “dictatorship of the proletariat” and the abolition of all private property. You can make Jesus endorse just about anything with a few verses out if context and an elaborate imagination.
[/quote]
how about just logically refuting what I have quoted,with your own scripture. Not explanations of how christians live now etc…I quoted several scriptures,but rather than consider carefully what they say, you just dismiss them because its not what you would like christianity to be. This is unfortunate
[/quote]
He already broke down why your offered up passages were bunk.
Next.
[/quote]
come on now. That’s a bit lame. One scripture about buying a sword and then going on about revenge and self defense? Use the Book. That’s where the answers are.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
so if I used assault rifle incorrectly,well…[/quote]
Yeah, you did. No worries. It’s a minor inconsequencial thing.
The only reason you got it wrong is because the media is largely populated by anti-gun leftists who are just Useful Idiots for the Global Elite looking to enslave the unarmed masses.
Okay, may have tossed in some tin foil in that last part there. But yeah, the media calls any gun painted black “assault rifle” or “glock”. Because those sound scary, and they are racist, so it gets clicks on websites. [/quote]
All good. I just thought cuz it shoots the same round as an ak47,that it was an assault rifle
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
and in his case he was right. [/quote]
Great philosopher.
[quote] Miyamoto Musashi wrote:
“There are five ways in which men pass through life: as gentlemen, warriors, farmers, artisans and merchants.”
[/quote]
Only nowadays many of us have moved onto 6: Cultural Awareness Diversity Consultant. Then the warriors take over and the whole cycle begins anew…but not for us. We go down with the wreck.[/quote]
Are you serious? I have the book of five rings with the cool illustrations, I got no real philosophy out of it,personally. Its interesting and all,but…
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I have had no scripture quoted to me that in any way indicates violence is ok. [/quote]
Any that specifically say “you have to allow violence be done upon you”?
None of the ones you’ve put up say that. [/quote]
Apparently Jesus endorsed the international socialist program because he and his disciples lived a communal lifestyle. Communal lifestyle = advocates a stateless, international “dictatorship of the proletariat” and the abolition of all private property. You can make Jesus endorse just about anything with a few verses out if context and an elaborate imagination.
[/quote]
how about just logically refuting what I have quoted,with your own scripture. Not explanations of how christians live now etc…I quoted several scriptures,but rather than consider carefully what they say, you just dismiss them because its not what you would like christianity to be. This is unfortunate
[/quote]
He already broke down why your offered up passages were bunk.
Next.
[/quote]
Yep. And it was simple because they simply do not say what he claims they do. I’m baffled as to why he’s taken this strategy. I guess it’s just another version of the “Jesus was a big time liberal so why aren’t you?” strategy.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
so if I used assault rifle incorrectly,well…[/quote]
Yeah, you did. No worries. It’s a minor inconsequencial thing.
The only reason you got it wrong is because the media is largely populated by anti-gun leftists who are just Useful Idiots for the Global Elite looking to enslave the unarmed masses.
Okay, may have tossed in some tin foil in that last part there. But yeah, the media calls any gun painted black “assault rifle” or “glock”. Because those sound scary, and they are racist, so it gets clicks on websites. [/quote]
The “cop killer” rounds is a classic. Pretend Teflon-coated rounds are specifically designed to kill cops and it makes it easier to ban them. I think it was NBC that first came up with that one.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
An unknowable God is the nihilist’s dream.[/quote]
A god knowable by mammalian primates is a very small god indeed.
[quote]pat wrote:
I can turn beer into piss.[/quote]
That’s how I turn wine into water.