I recommend not doing as it is ridiculous. Claims that the earth is thousands of years old and that dinosaurs and humans lived together.
So juvenile.
[/quote]
Oh Perlenbacher, don’t be like Timon …
Pumbaa: Hey, Timon, ever wonder what those sparkly dots are up there?
Timon: Pumbaa, I don’t wonder; I know.
Pumbaa: Oh. What are they?
Timon: They’re fireflies. Fireflies that, uh… got stuck up on that big bluish-black thing.
Pumbaa: Oh, gee. I always thought they were balls of gas burning billions of miles away.
Timon: Pumbaa, with you, everything’s gas.
Scientists need to have a little imagination. They have to look up at the sky and wonder.[/quote]
Occam’s Razor says Timon may be right.
[/quote]
Heretic! Everyone knows they are pinholes in the firmament to allow the light of heaven to shine through![/quote]
Is that from the bible?[/quote]
No. Ancient Greco-Roman belief.[/quote]
Is it part of a story or were those your words?
It is a beautiful line.
When I read it I got an awesome picture in my head and now need to read more on it.
[/quote]
As someone else said though, not all atheists are like that. But a hell of a lot are. At least 75% of atheists I’ve debated with are militant/extremists and have an inferiority complex; have to show how clever they are and how stupid everyone else is.[/quote]
I’ll say this, there are few, if any, that won’t bustle up and defend their faith with just as much passion and zest as any catholic, muslim or any other religious figure. (Note that IE gives you the misspelling for not capitalizing muslim, but doesn’t for catholic…)
They quote disciples, worship their words…
They claim the sole knowers of the real truth…
Their faith is unwavering…
They feel special, chosen, enlightened…
They refuse to consider outside their dogma…
Their mission, on the internet at least, is conversion…
Very rare is the atheist that will entertain any conversation beyond the box they are comfortable in. Rarer still, one that won’t have a derogatory remark if the right question is asked.
EDIT:
Case in point
[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:
Those extremist militants always invading countries, blowing up schools, launching crusades, preaching belief in unbelievable stories without evidence!
Damn nasty athiests.
Every time I turn on the news, I see agnostic rebels shelling the atheist strongholds.
[/quote]
this was posted as I was drafting my post, lol. Timing couldn’t be better.
You have a right to be an immoral person, just own it.
[/quote]
This guy claims that morality and even human life are “constructs” and don’t actually exist. He’s a nihilist and moral reprobate.[/quote]
Just like most of the atheists on this forum, with exceptions of course most notably Kamui.
What is striking to me, based on observation, is how he and all the others who have passed through say almost exactly the same kind of stuff, the same way and yet claim to be bound by nothing and adhere to atheism because they are freethinkers. Yet, they say and do all the same stuff as if they all scripted from the same play.
I beginning to wonder if there isn’t a secret atheist bible somewhere that they are all required to memorize like the Koran.
The irony of atheists all saying and acting the same way as each other, almost always punctuated with a great deal of anger, while claiming this ‘freethinking’ motif is not lost on me.
It may not be a religion, but it’s certainly cultish. Do you agree?[/quote]
Militant atheism is certainly cultish. It’s also really childish. It’s like an inferiority complex or something.
But yes, I agree with your post. What strikes me is they don’t seem to comprehend the enormous implications of what they’re saying - ie, that morality doesn’t exist; that it’s a “construct”. That is of course moral nihilism. Of course they always deny that they’re nihilists and they try to take the moral high ground on things after saying they don’t believe in morality. All very odd but predictable as you say.[/quote]
Having lived it, with it, and seen it from the inside out… They are the very thing they hold in so much contempt. Just so happens they wear a pair of brown slacks while those they openly mock as inferior wear a black pair of slacks.
Both sets of people are wearing pants.
Edit: typos, grammer and more typos[/quote]
As someone else said though, not all atheists are like that. But a hell of a lot are. At least 75% of atheists I’ve debated with are militant/extremists and have an inferiority complex; have to show how clever they are and how stupid everyone else is.[/quote]
I agree that a lot of athiest are on a mission to prove religion stupid. I’m not sure its an inferiority complex,may actually be a superiority complex. Regardless, as a fairly new observor on the scene,there does seem to be a bit of that on both sides of this debate. I am actually not sure if the perla person actually believes his position on morality,or is just enjoying the argument. I think his idea is the universe has no meaning or something,I get that,but to apply that to day to.day living is a very different thing. Taken to the extreme it certainly isn’t a way.someone lives their life. Its just not practicle. As a point of debate or thought maybe…
You have a right to be an immoral person, just own it.
[/quote]
This guy claims that morality and even human life are “constructs” and don’t actually exist. He’s a nihilist and moral reprobate.[/quote]
Just like most of the atheists on this forum, with exceptions of course most notably Kamui.
What is striking to me, based on observation, is how he and all the others who have passed through say almost exactly the same kind of stuff, the same way and yet claim to be bound by nothing and adhere to atheism because they are freethinkers. Yet, they say and do all the same stuff as if they all scripted from the same play.
I beginning to wonder if there isn’t a secret atheist bible somewhere that they are all required to memorize like the Koran.
The irony of atheists all saying and acting the same way as each other, almost always punctuated with a great deal of anger, while claiming this ‘freethinking’ motif is not lost on me.
It may not be a religion, but it’s certainly cultish. Do you agree?[/quote]
Militant atheism is certainly cultish. It’s also really childish. It’s like an inferiority complex or something.
But yes, I agree with your post. What strikes me is they don’t seem to comprehend the enormous implications of what they’re saying - ie, that morality doesn’t exist; that it’s a “construct”. That is of course moral nihilism. Of course they always deny that they’re nihilists and they try to take the moral high ground on things after saying they don’t believe in morality. All very odd but predictable as you say.[/quote]
Having lived it, with it, and seen it from the inside out… They are the very thing they hold in so much contempt. Just so happens they wear a pair of brown slacks while those they openly mock as inferior wear a black pair of slacks.
Both sets of people are wearing pants.
Edit: typos, grammer and more typos[/quote]
As someone else said though, not all atheists are like that. But a hell of a lot are. At least 75% of atheists I’ve debated with are militant/extremists and have an inferiority complex; have to show how clever they are and how stupid everyone else is.[/quote]
Those extremist militants always invading countries, blowing up schools, launching crusades, preaching belief in unbelievable stories without evidence!
Damn nasty athiests.
Every time I turn on the news, I see agnostic rebels shelling the atheist strongholds.
(not just giving a pass to religious peoples claims is now sen as picking on their faith which is deemed beyond criticism)
[/quote]
I didn’t say you were “picking on” anyone or that religion is “beyond criticism”. Strawman. I said atheists are often trying to show how clever they are; how superior to people of faith. And how can you complain about wars? Morality doesn’t exist remember? It’s entirely subjective. And in many cultures war is glorified and virtuous in and of itself. That invented ethical construct is no more or less legitimate than any other right? Yes right. That’s essentially the argument you’ve made here.
You don’t believe in 99.9 percent of all religions and moral absolutist guidelines, I merely believe in one less than you.
[/quote]
Annnnnd your slip, it finally shows.
I know what your other screen name is. Pretty disappointed too. [/quote]
What another poster used the very famous athiest statement by one of the most famous athiests alive? Must be the same poster!!!
Now if I took everyone who claimed Noah’s ark was real 5 of the posters in this thread would be one very devout christian.[/quote]
It’s okay man. If I had as fucked up a world view as you, and couldn’t back up anything I said without nut hugging a bunch of atheist motivational speakers, I wouldn’t post it under my original screen name either.
It’ll stay between us, no worries. [/quote]
Righttttttt.
Cool brah. [/quote]
Nice picture. You don’t Know any of that. [/quote]
We don’t know a brain is required for consciousness? we certainly do, we can prove that, we can show how we can’t prove the soul, for example.
Ce can clearly show the mechanisms within the brain required for consciousness.
[/quote]
Depends on exactly what you mean by consciousness. It’s pretty complicated:
Anyway, we don’t know a lot of things. Like if a coma patient is conscious for example. Or if a fetus is conscious prior to their brain fully developing.
Is a dog conscious? How about a 1 year old? How about a bacteria cell?
You have a right to be an immoral person, just own it.
[/quote]
This guy claims that morality and even human life are “constructs” and don’t actually exist. He’s a nihilist and moral reprobate.[/quote]
Just like most of the atheists on this forum, with exceptions of course most notably Kamui.
What is striking to me, based on observation, is how he and all the others who have passed through say almost exactly the same kind of stuff, the same way and yet claim to be bound by nothing and adhere to atheism because they are freethinkers. Yet, they say and do all the same stuff as if they all scripted from the same play.
I beginning to wonder if there isn’t a secret atheist bible somewhere that they are all required to memorize like the Koran.
The irony of atheists all saying and acting the same way as each other, almost always punctuated with a great deal of anger, while claiming this ‘freethinking’ motif is not lost on me.
It may not be a religion, but it’s certainly cultish. Do you agree?[/quote]
Militant atheism is certainly cultish. It’s also really childish. It’s like an inferiority complex or something.
But yes, I agree with your post. What strikes me is they don’t seem to comprehend the enormous implications of what they’re saying - ie, that morality doesn’t exist; that it’s a “construct”. That is of course moral nihilism. Of course they always deny that they’re nihilists and they try to take the moral high ground on things after saying they don’t believe in morality. All very odd but predictable as you say.[/quote]
Having lived it, with it, and seen it from the inside out… They are the very thing they hold in so much contempt. Just so happens they wear a pair of brown slacks while those they openly mock as inferior wear a black pair of slacks.
Both sets of people are wearing pants.
Edit: typos, grammer and more typos[/quote]
As someone else said though, not all atheists are like that. But a hell of a lot are. At least 75% of atheists I’ve debated with are militant/extremists and have an inferiority complex; have to show how clever they are and how stupid everyone else is.[/quote]
I agree that a lot of athiest are on a mission to prove religion stupid. I’m not sure its an inferiority complex,may actually be a superiority complex. Regardless, as a fairly new observor on the scene,there does seem to be a bit of that on both sides of this debate. I am actually not sure if the perla person actually believes his position on morality,or is just enjoying the argument. I think his idea is the universe has no meaning or something,I get that,but to apply that to day to.day living is a very different thing. Taken to the extreme it certainly isn’t a way.someone lives their life. Its just not practicle. As a point of debate or thought maybe…[/quote]
What I’ve come to realise is that it does inform their everyday decisions. In fact, the fundamental beliefs; the metaphysical system, that people adopt influences all the important decisions people make. That’s why you so often see these guys talking about abortion in glowing terms and so on.
You have a right to be an immoral person, just own it.
[/quote]
This guy claims that morality and even human life are “constructs” and don’t actually exist. He’s a nihilist and moral reprobate.[/quote]
Just like most of the atheists on this forum, with exceptions of course most notably Kamui.
What is striking to me, based on observation, is how he and all the others who have passed through say almost exactly the same kind of stuff, the same way and yet claim to be bound by nothing and adhere to atheism because they are freethinkers. Yet, they say and do all the same stuff as if they all scripted from the same play.
I beginning to wonder if there isn’t a secret atheist bible somewhere that they are all required to memorize like the Koran.
The irony of atheists all saying and acting the same way as each other, almost always punctuated with a great deal of anger, while claiming this ‘freethinking’ motif is not lost on me.
It may not be a religion, but it’s certainly cultish. Do you agree?[/quote]
Militant atheism is certainly cultish. It’s also really childish. It’s like an inferiority complex or something.
But yes, I agree with your post. What strikes me is they don’t seem to comprehend the enormous implications of what they’re saying - ie, that morality doesn’t exist; that it’s a “construct”. That is of course moral nihilism. Of course they always deny that they’re nihilists and they try to take the moral high ground on things after saying they don’t believe in morality. All very odd but predictable as you say.[/quote]
Having lived it, with it, and seen it from the inside out… They are the very thing they hold in so much contempt. Just so happens they wear a pair of brown slacks while those they openly mock as inferior wear a black pair of slacks.
Both sets of people are wearing pants.
Edit: typos, grammer and more typos[/quote]
As someone else said though, not all atheists are like that. But a hell of a lot are. At least 75% of atheists I’ve debated with are militant/extremists and have an inferiority complex; have to show how clever they are and how stupid everyone else is.[/quote]
Those extremist militants always invading countries, blowing up schools, launching crusades, preaching belief in unbelievable stories without evidence!
Damn nasty athiests.
Every time I turn on the news, I see agnostic rebels shelling the atheist strongholds.
(not just giving a pass to religious peoples claims is now sen as picking on their faith which is deemed beyond criticism)
[/quote]
I didn’t say you were “picking on” anyone or that religion is “beyond criticism”. Strawman. I said atheists are often trying to show how clever they are; how superior to people of faith. And how can you complain about wars? Morality doesn’t exist remember? It’s entirely subjective. And in many cultures war is glorified and virtuous in and of itself. That invented ethical construct is no more or less legitimate than any other right? Yes right. That’s essentially the argument you’ve made here.[/quote]
You mean when athiests argue their position they are trying to prove they are smarter but when religious people do the exact same thing it is somehoe different? How? Why?
The way religious people have treated athiests over time is a lot worse than some snarky comment.
And why can’t you grasp that even though I acknoledge morality is a social construct, I still have my own morals, I just know they are created by man, rather than divine morals from a creator.
I can acknowledge social constructs are just that, social constructs and also find them to be useful.
Rape for example is a social construct, almost every species forces sex onto their mating partner a good example being dolphins. knowing this does it make you unable to condemn rape?
Social constructs are created to benefit us, for example we create the term stealing because it harms our self interest, we create rape because we don’t want out kin to be raped, all morals started out from self interest, evolutionary philanthropic behaviour benefits us.
I recommend the selfish gene or some of Sam Harris’s work on this. Or do you now understand it?
I recommend not doing as it is ridiculous. Claims that the earth is thousands of years old and that dinosaurs and humans lived together.
So juvenile.
[/quote]
Oh Perlenbacher, don’t be like Timon …
Pumbaa: Hey, Timon, ever wonder what those sparkly dots are up there?
Timon: Pumbaa, I don’t wonder; I know.
Pumbaa: Oh. What are they?
Timon: They’re fireflies. Fireflies that, uh… got stuck up on that big bluish-black thing.
Pumbaa: Oh, gee. I always thought they were balls of gas burning billions of miles away.
Timon: Pumbaa, with you, everything’s gas.
Scientists need to have a little imagination. They have to look up at the sky and wonder.[/quote]
Occam’s Razor says Timon may be right.
[/quote]
Heretic! Everyone knows they are pinholes in the firmament to allow the light of heaven to shine through![/quote]
Is that from the bible?[/quote]
No. Ancient Greco-Roman belief.[/quote]
Is it part of a story or were those your words?
It is a beautiful line.
When I read it I got an awesome picture in my head and now need to read more on it.
[/quote]
Very rare is the atheist that will entertain any conversation beyond the box they are comfortable in. Rarer still, one that won’t have a derogatory remark if the right question is asked.
[/quote]
I do actually enjoy debating with some secular folk though. smh, kamui and a few others. Serious posters as opposed to childish know it alls who consistently show they know little or nothing about religion and nothing about philosophy. Many aren’t even familiar with philosophical atheism, Nietzsche etc. It’s usually a case of Dunning-Kruger effect.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You knock it off Smh ;)[/quote]
Lol, I was hoping nobody had read it, because I was about to go in and add an edit explaining that smh has a catholic taste in women and a Catholic taste in religious architecture.
Very rare is the atheist that will entertain any conversation beyond the box they are comfortable in. Rarer still, one that won’t have a derogatory remark if the right question is asked.
[/quote]
I do actually enjoy debating with some secular folk though. smh, kamui and a few others. Serious posters as opposed to childish know it alls who consistently show they know little or nothing about religion and nothing about philosophy. Many aren’t even familiar with philosophical atheism, Nietzsche etc. It’s usually a case of Dunning-Kruger effect.[/quote]
Many thanks for the shout out.
I should add here that I began doing the research to respond to you in the slavery discussion, but I read your comment about it not mattering much to us, and I found myself agreeing vigorously.
I always enjoy debating all of you – and you specifically – vis-a-vis religion. And everything else, really.
I recommend not doing as it is ridiculous. Claims that the earth is thousands of years old and that dinosaurs and humans lived together.
So juvenile.
[/quote]
Oh Perlenbacher, don’t be like Timon …
Pumbaa: Hey, Timon, ever wonder what those sparkly dots are up there?
Timon: Pumbaa, I don’t wonder; I know.
Pumbaa: Oh. What are they?
Timon: They’re fireflies. Fireflies that, uh… got stuck up on that big bluish-black thing.
Pumbaa: Oh, gee. I always thought they were balls of gas burning billions of miles away.
Timon: Pumbaa, with you, everything’s gas.
Scientists need to have a little imagination. They have to look up at the sky and wonder.[/quote]
Occam’s Razor says Timon may be right.
[/quote]
Heretic! Everyone knows they are pinholes in the firmament to allow the light of heaven to shine through![/quote]
Is that from the bible?[/quote]
No. Ancient Greco-Roman belief.[/quote]
Is it part of a story or were those your words?
It is a beautiful line.
When I read it I got an awesome picture in my head and now need to read more on it.
[/quote]
lol…I meant the line “they are pinholes in the firmament to allow the light of heaven to shine through!”
[/quote]
Oh, okay. I think varq got that line from a site called “Fundies say the darndest things”. It’s a let’s mock Christians site. They’re easy targets because you don’t get fired for discrimination or decapitated when you mock them.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
You knock it off Smh ;)[/quote]
Lol, I was hoping nobody had read it, because I was about to go in and add an edit explaining that smh has a catholic taste in women and a Catholic taste in religious architecture.[/quote]
Why are catholic schoolgirls always the most sexually promiscuous? Is it the repression?
I had a catholic girlfriend in my teens and she went to an all girls catholic school and she and her two best friends were absolute whores. Prim and proper daddy’s good wholesome daughter until they were out of school and the house, then they were addicted to cock.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Would love to hear more about this involvement to be honest, lol. [/quote]
Check out the Giving Up on Women Thread, pages 17 and 18. I talk about her a bit there.
I haven’t read the comments. Her dad’s interview is actually at the top of the page. It has nothing to do with her story, in fact I don’t think Matt acknowledges her anymore. I think he’s humiliated that his young Padawan has gone over to the Dark Side.
Yeah.
All right. Here’s my story. Take from it what you will.
I never believed in any of the stuff people try to get little kids to believe in. Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus. I knew it was a sham, at like four or five. Never believed in ghosts or Bigfoot or the Abominable Snowman.
My mother was and is a very religious Christian, so my younger brother and I were expected to be very religious Christians, too. He, like Christopher Hitchens’ younger brother Peter, still is.
I was “saved” when I was nine, having made my private plea for redemption in my bedroom closet (as Jesus himself suggested), and then my public confession of faith in front of our thousand-member congregation, before being baptised in a white robe by our pastor, an extremely wise and charismatic man who is now, I just discovered, Dean of Theology at the Colorado Christian University.
I was a voracious reader, and was captivated by the stories in the Bible. I memorised more verses than anyone else in my Sunday school class, and always took copious notes during Pastor Yohn’s sermons. A number of times he told me that I ought to be a minister myself, or perhaps a missionary, an idea that at the time really appealed to me.
But for all my piety, I couldn’t completely believe it.
Oh, I believed the stories still, but I couldn’t force myself to really believe believe, to have that unquestioning faith that so many of my Sunday School classmates did.
There were always those nagging doubts. Lots of questions that nobody could answer to my satisfaction. When I brought up the various implausibilities of the Flood, for instance, or of the sun stopping at midday, or the torture of Job, or the fate of the orphaned Midianite virgin girls, my Sunday School classmates would just sort of look at me with sort of a mild disgust and pity, as they might if I were telling them that it hurts when I pee.
My mother’s answers usually took the form of “just pray about it”, or “some things we’re just not supposed to understand”, or my favourite, “when we’re in Heaven, we’ll know that and everything else too!”
The Youth Pastors’ responses were a bit more thoughtful, but I could tell that the questions made them uncomfortable. Perhaps because they secretly had the same questions themselves. I prayed for answers. I read some more.
When I was in my early teens I decided I was going to “witness” to my father, a lifelong agnostic. On the plane from California to Maryland, where he then lived, I did nothing but prepare my ministry. I read the entire Gospel of Luke before we got to Denver, and the Gospel of John before the plane touched down in Baltimore. One day, when we were alone in the kitchen, I shared the Good News of Jesus Christ with the man I loved most in the world.
And got the surprise of my life. He already knew it. He knew it better than I did. His knowledge of scripture was impeccable. I had no idea. My mother had always told me that he was an “atheist” who didn’t follow the word of God, so I had naively assumed it was because he didn’t know any better. But we talked about Christianity, and without being harsh or insulting or dismissive of my faith, he very gently and rationally explained to me why it wasn’t for him.
Afterwards I went to my room and wept. Mostly out of shame at my failure, I think. At my realisation that my own shortcomings of faith, my own doubts and questions, had hindered me from successfully bearing witness to my father. But there was something else as well. The fact that something didn’t add up. My father was the best, most intelligent man I knew, and here he was rejecting Christ. I had been taught to believe that rejecting Christ was something only ignorant, evil people did.
Either my father really was ignorant and evil, or what I’d been taught was wrong.
And I knew my father was neither evil nor ignorant.
I was a Christian for several years after that, though I started reading other books beside the Bible. A lot of other books. History and philosophy and mythology and geology and palaeontology and archaeology and astronomy and neurobiology and, yes, evolutionary biology. And to my surprise and delight, they answered the questions that neither the Bible nor my mother nor any of the pastors at church ever had, to my satisfaction.
I really couldn’t say when exactly it happened, but one day, I realised that I wasn’t a Christian anymore.
And that the prospect of not being a Christian anymore didn’t scare me.
Very rare is the atheist that will entertain any conversation beyond the box they are comfortable in. Rarer still, one that won’t have a derogatory remark if the right question is asked.
[/quote]
I do actually enjoy debating with some secular folk though. smh, kamui and a few others. Serious posters as opposed to childish know it alls who consistently show they know little or nothing about religion and nothing about philosophy. Many aren’t even familiar with philosophical atheism, Nietzsche etc. It’s usually a case of Dunning-Kruger effect.[/quote]
Many thanks for the shout out.
I should add here that I began doing the research to respond to you in the slavery discussion, but I read your comment about it not mattering much to us, and I found myself agreeing vigorously.
I always enjoy debating all of you – and you specifically – vis-a-vis religion. And everything else, really.[/quote]
