Yeah, clueless bro science to have that much at one time. I’ve read and listened to podcasts by Dr. Lonnie Lowery, Brad Schoenfield and others that states as far as protein synthesis is concerned, studies show amounts greater than 25-30g per serving provided no additional benefit regarding building muscle tissue for that specific window, and 1g per pound is completely sufficient. I’m sure others have a different opinion and everyone has their own methods. But if Lowery and Schoenfeld have an opinion on the topic, it’s no doubt a result of meticulous and well executed studies and analysis, and I’m gonna listen. @The_Mighty_Stu, @BrickHead and others have said the same as well. Not saying it’s pointless to eat more than that, we gotta eat and additional protein certainly isn’t harmful. But as far as LBM gains are concerned, I am learning that 1g per pound is sufficient, especially if carbs are high. I may bump up slightly during the prep, but right now I’m thinking I may keep it as-is so I can have more calories left for carbs.
Aside from reading and listening about it, personal trial is the best data, and while I’ve only been lowering protein recently, I know it’s a good adjustment. My protein intake was actually slightly below 1g during my keto phases, and I’m confident I kept all my LBM during my prep.
3 protein shakes within that workout window is ridiculous! I’m sure they’re busy instagraming their gainz between sets.
Great thread, great story you are telling here with your journey.
This is the one thing I wish those lab jockeys and pubmed warriors would understand. All the data is great but much like jazz music, there is a framework of rules and they can be adhered to or broken with great results if one takes the time to do personal trials. That’s how a lot of these research questions started anyways.
Absolutely perfect analogy! I’m a jazz musician, my bachelor’s degree was trumpet performance emphasis in jazz studies, masters was music education. A few times a month I still play with a swing band and a few other groups. Many folks think improvising is completely sporadic, while there is indeed a framework that must be adhered to, with a LOT of room to experiment within that. Then, all it takes is hours of practicing every day for years until you start to get the hang of it
161.5 lbs - A few post workout progress pics after training today. Beware the white, pasty glare! I don’t use filters to make anything look “better” or different, so get your sunglasses on.
I am keeping an eye on conditioning as the scale slowly moves, but right now I think I’m approaching where I’d like to maintain my off season weight. If I get up to 163/164 and still have this level of conditioning that would be great, but I will not let myself get above 165 because I think after that I’m just adding more work for myself with my next prep. It really doesn’t take a huge caloric surplus to add mass, my current surplus is about 10% and my weight has been maintaining well for the past few weeks. Once I really get into the 2-a-day program consistently, if things are going well and conditioning is decent I’ll add 100 cals to the daily nutrition and see how that goes, keeping additions conservative as I don’t want to add any unnecessary fat. Right now I’m 13 pounds away from my previous stage weight of 148. Considering I need to come in a few pounds lighter, but hopefully will have more muscle next season, I think aiming for 144-145 at the start of peak week is a realistic number. As long as I can stay within 20 pounds of stage weight, I’m good.
No way! That’s awesome! I LOVE jazz (make that love music actually). I played trumpet in high school, really really enjoyed it but never had the range to hit the notes to take it to the next level, and was in the process of becoming addicted to guitar. Trumpet still remains a very soft spot in my heart and I love listening to good trumpeters both old and new (Chase comes to mind with the song “Open up Wide” on the album Quadraphonic. That album… More Blood, Sweat, Tears style funk/rock but…damn!)
I absolutely love guitar, it’s like an extension of my soul.
One of my very favorite explanations for modes and improv was by given by Satriani when he compared modes to flavors or moods and said they were personal feelings. How does it make you feel? That quote finally broke me out of my rigid mathematical style framework for what was acceptable and not (major problem for my playing). The other thing was from jazz musician Lennie Tristano talking about the human ear having a perceptive “window” of about 11 notes–you can play 8-10 whatever notes you want in any order, but you have to bring it “home” to the chord/key by the 11th or you sound like you’re “out”. That was the other things that finally made blue notes make sense to my mind.
Also BTW, that picture of the Incline at Manitou makes me want to throw up all over again. I know ALL ABOUT that ‘hill’. Love Colorado with all my heart, I go every chance I get. One of my Ranger buddies recently got stationed there at Ft Carson and I went out to help him find a house and break it in. He said “lets go for a jog up the Incline”.
Nope.
noooope nope nope. He was fine, I was crushed. Worst feeling ever.
Man that’s incredible! Not often you meet people who love jazz, very cool to share this love of music with another meat head lol. Do you still play at all?
Yeah, no joke! I love that album. Maynard was my first influence, his “Live in London” album and of course “Master of the Stratosphere” got me addicted to the horn. I don’t listen to as much jazz as I used to in school, but for lead playing Wayne Bergeron is one of my favs, and for jazz I LOVE Leroy Jones (he’s the usual soloist in Harry Connick Jr.'s band and is based in New Orleans.) His playing is unrivaled, I transcribed a ton of his solos in school.
I love listening to great guitar but unfortunately am terrible at instruments that aren’t single line. All brass and woodwinds are no problem, I’m decent on drum set. But piano and guitar are just not happening for me. My grandma went to Juilliard for piano performance and used to play on the radio with Gene Kelley, Danny K. and made a living as a piano player. My mom is a prodigal piano player and was playing with orchestras when she was 10. I suck at piano, but fortunately did inherit their perfect pitch. I also have some serious sausage fingers and thick hands which makes it pretty tough to play chordal instruments. I taught a guitar class while I was teaching, I made sure I was good enough to lead a beginner class and practiced enough chords that the kids thought I could play, but they didn’t see me struggling 5 minutes before they came in!
Ha, a “jog” on the incline! Yes the locals are really good at it. My wife and I both train and kept a decent pace, but most of the locals passed us fairly easily. We were planning on doing the incline a second time during our trip but decided one was enough! At the food and souvenir show at the base of the incline you can read the records for shortest time and most trips, some people make it to the top in fifteen minutes (it took us a little over an hour.) One resident had the record for going up the incline over 400 times in a year, including one day where he went up and down 4 times! The pictures do it no justice.
These are some quick comparison pics, both sides are 161.5 lbs, the left is from February when I was dieting down for the show, the last time I was this weight. Now that I have been tracking weight and taking pics consistently for the past year, it’s very valuable to look back and see the progression. While the weight is the same in both pics, I think I’ve been able to put on more mass and less fat since the show and am holding 161.5 much better. My goal is to maintain this level of conditioning, my weight has been the same for the past 3 weeks so I think I’ve found my sweet spot for maintenance. Over the course of September if I can squeeze in some more cals and maybe move up another pound or two I will, but I feel like if this is my starting point for my next diet, I’ll come in significantly better size and conditioning than last time and should have a more successful prep overall.
Not the trumpet sadly, but I still own it. And I want to go back and start practicing, pick it up again. I live in an apartment though, so practicing a guitar is easier and less invasive for the neighbors haha. I do definitely play the guitar however! I got the chance last year to be part of a masterclass with Steve Vai and Eric Johnson for 4 days. Best 4 days of intensive learning in my entire life lol. Mind = melted.
Yes!! Maynard was huge in my early influences along with Chase (dad collects vinyl of all styles so I grew up with both of them), as well as Gillespie. I gravitated towards Miles very quickly though, the Cool was kicked of by Kind of Blue. I liked his relaxed style, because I felt like I had a chance to play like him in middle school haha. Maynard, Chase and Gillespie were like superheros. Also really liked early Marsalis.
I can’t believe how lucky you are to have that music pedigree! You are one lucky bastard, that is incredible. Also that perfect pitch! I’d sell half my soul to have perfect pitch lol. Sausage fingers are hell for a guitar. Vai has alien hands. But Django Reinhardt played with only 2 fingers on his fret hand though, after half his hand was paralyzed in 4th grade…so I just soldier on as best I can knowing that haha.
Oh, I got dusted by him. That bastard. I do believe he jogged it. It’s ok though we trade off on those types of feats, I’ll get him in something else.
Those locals scare me with how good they are. Pikes Peak marathon? Check. Got passed by old local mountain men doing the regular hike…they passed me up AND down while I was still hiking to the halfway point. I have several friends out there, another one has a roommate who liked to run Longs Peak. Which is
a 8 mile trail gaining 5000 feet in elevation
rocky, boulder hopping, and has a backside with a 18 inch wide “path” that drops 1500 feet on one side
insane.
He literally would leave to run the trail for fun.
WOW! Yeah melted indeed, I’m surprised you were able to put it back together. I had to transcribe “Frangelica Part 2” by Steve Vai once for a client, it was the hardest thing I’ve ever transcribed and still have nightmares about it.
The perfect pitch thing is a blessing and a curse, but I am very lucky and grateful for sure to have so much music in my family and in my life. Blessing when I’m transcribing just with headphones and a pencil, a curse when teaching beginner band kids to play. Those first sounds are rough man…I have really sensitive ears, sometimes if something is really out of tune I’ll get slightly disoriented or downright angry lol. Don’t get me started on pop music and auto tune!
Thank you man! Shoulders and arms are what I’m really trying to improve for next season. With both shoulders and arms I typically avoided heavy sets and lower reps (except for DB presses) and went in the higher rep ranges. Since my show I’ve been doing everything in the 8-12 range for shoulders, bis and tris, and usually start shoulders with 5x5 for DB Presses.
I was also doing a LOT of work for biceps, like 5 or 6 exercises with 4 working sets each, rep city, drop sets and all that, and I think I’ve been seeing better results from simplifying the workout, focusing on intensity and going heavier in the 8-12 rep range. Now for biceps and triceps both I’ll usually do 3 exercises with 3 working sets for each. If I’m training arms once in the week I’ll add some cable curl drop sets and dip machine drop sets at the end, if I’m on the 2-a-day plan I’ll stick to 3 exercises 3 working sets each. Shoulders I do a little more to make sure I hit all three heads accordingly. Here’s what I’ve been doing lately, any feedback is always appreciated! Shoulders and arms both get their own sessions.
Shoulders
Seated DB Press - 5x5 for the past 6 weeks or so to focus more on strength, this week I did 4x8-10 and was able to go a lot heavier than I used to in that rep range.
Alternating DB Front Raises - 3x8-10
Bent Over Rear DB Raises - 3x12
Rear Pec Deck - 3x12
Standing DB Lateral Raises - 3x10
*If training shoulders once in the week I’ll add 2 sets of John Meadow’s “6 Point Raises” to fail.
Biceps - There are some different exercises I’ll rotate through, on the 2-a-day plan I usually try to do different exercises between the two workouts.
Seated Incline DB Curls or Alternating Concentration Curls - 3x8-10
Straight Bar Curls or Cable Preacher Curl - 3x10-12
DB Hammer or EZ Bar Reverse Curls - 3x10-12
Triceps
Weighted Dips or Close Grip Bench - 3x8
Straight Bar or Rope Push Down - 3x10-12
Decline DB Extensions - 3x12
I can feel your pain already… I don’t blame you one bit!! I feel sorry for what I put my parents through the first year or two I was learning. How they avoided killing me…
On a training note I’ve found that shoulders really like volume and metabolic stress. I always keep heavy pressing in because I want to hopefully be as strong as I look, but for straight hypertrophy the heavy metabolic stress emphasis really makes growth happen much quicker. The 6 point raises are great, but I really like banded over-and-backs for constant tension and swings for metabolic stress. Try this:
Seated Press like normal, then
lean away cable lateral raise, 2 muscle rounds (1 muscle round is 6 left, 6 right, x 4 = 24 reps per side with no rest, with 12 RM)
COMPLEX:
Lateral raise x 10-12
Arnold Press x 8 (strict) with same weight as lateral raise
banded over-and-backs x max reps
x 3
Then finish with rear delt swings: 2 x 40 reps with 40 lb in each hand
Ouch, this sounds wonderfully brutal. I was doing some shoulder workouts from a John Meadows program which included lots of banded over-and-backs with delt swings, and boy did I feel those delts!
One of my favorites! haha. Also brutal. If you stop yourself from arching in the back to get the bands over and around by squeezing your glutes and abs really hard to stay plank straight, the move gets much, much harder than normal even.
Thanks for the tip! I’ll be sure to give this a shot in my next workout. I’ve been having quite a bit of shoulder pain recently, so I’ve been trying to do the band over-and-backs and face-pulls more religiously in hopes to get my shoulders back to health.
