Right to Arms in the 21st Century

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
302

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Do you think Chicago would have less gang crime if anyone at any time could go to a gun store and buy a gun without a background check? [/quote]

Yes.

There might be more scum bag gang thugs killing each other. That is a possibility. But there would be far less innocent people being killed as the scum that stalk such people just might be thinking “hey that dude is probably packing a gun lets keep walking.”

Keep in mind the example set by the old west from about 1860 to 1895. Everyone from about age 10 on learned to shoot and owned a gun. How many mass shootings were there back then-None.

303

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:

Handguns don’t serve much of a purpose other than killing people so I don’t see a huge reason for them to be so prevalent in todays society.[/quote]

LOL…again with the stupid talk. You don’t think they serve much of a purpose except for killing people? (eye roll). That is the idea. If a bad guy tries to kill me I will indeed use it on them. To kill them…get it? It is for personal defense…for killing. Stop blaming the tool and blame the user of that tool.

So you are against the second amendment. Are there any other parts of the constitution that you’d like to randomly remove?

Ah…I see well that’s a good reason to attack the second amendment. You suck at shooting handguns. Here’s an idea and I mean this sincerely. Practice and you’ll get better at it. And if you don’t care to practice keep in mind that there are many of us here in America that enjoy pistol shooting and are quite proficient at it. I’ve had my hand gun license for over half my life. I’ve never harmed anyone with them and find that going to the range is fun and I’ve carried it concealed many, many times in areas where I felt it was necessary.

You don’t like handguns so you’re ready to take that right away from the rest of us who are responsible gun owners?

You are no better than Obama or Hillary…okay that was probably incorrect. Let’s say on this topic you are no better than most left wing nuts who want to restrict hand gun use in America.

One more point, do you really think the bad guys will obey the law? They will go out on a Saturday night and for a few buck purchase their own ILLEGAL hand gun. And they are buying the gun to use against those of us who, if it were up to you, would be defenseless. Also, with the terrorist threat becoming more prevalent you should think twice before disarming honest gun owning citizens.
[/quote]

Zeb,

At no point did I suggest getting rid of guns or the 2nd amendment, in fact I pretty clearly stated that people should be able to have them and that there are so many already in circulation that getting rid of them is probably impossible.

My thought on gun laws is to make the punishment for possession of an illegally owned gun so horrible that people will just go back to stabbing each other rather than risk it.[/quote]

But this is what you said earlier:

  1. “Handguns don’t serve much of a purpose other than killing people so I don’t see a huge reason for them to be so prevalent in todays society.”

  2. “I get that there are a shit ton of them out there already but that shouldn’t be a roadblock to putting much more severe restrictions on their production and sale.”

So it appears that you did say you wanted to put “severe restriction on their production and sale”

You said nothing earlier about simply going after illegal hand guns–no that was never mentioned.

Which is i?

304

[quote]pushharder wrote:
…and they LOL’ed…in a nickering kinda way.[/quote]

And they both have more horse sense than the Pony on this thread.

305

Push,

Yes my disagreeing with your stance (politely at first) indicates that I am either stupid, lying or a troll, the fact that I may just be a rational being with a differing opinion is apparently lost on you. Yes I was in the Army 11b (Infantry), do you question the service of people you agree with? Probably not. By the way I don’t care that you never served in the military, or that you wanted to side against the government in a shootout, or that you have “relations” with sheep, I just found it amusing that you and Ted Nugent aren’t the same person.

As far as idiots hunting with automatic weapons, not only does it still happen (I just checked Youtube) but there is a reason they passed laws against it (because idiots were doing it).

I still get a kick out of people saying I want to destroy the 2nd amendment, I just want it to take into account the technology we have today rather than the muzzle loading pieces of shit that the founders had.

Maximus,

I am pointing out that anyone that tries to scale back the 2nd is immediately accused of wanting to dismantle it, when really community safety is at least as important as your right to bear whatever the fuck arms you want. Like I have said if you want to own guns go ahead, I don’t personally like them but if that’s your thing do it. Just don’t try to sell me on the notion that you need 30 guns including full auto weapons and an M79 for home protection.

USMC,

You took that a bit too seriously. I don’t think you want a nuke, but I get the feeling you want the 2nd amendment to allow a wide range of weaponry (maybe I misread your posts) that just seem excessive. Again I don’t care if you guys want guns for whatever reason I just stated my opinion that I think some guys and gals want too many guns (and bombs and tanks etc), mostly because they’re crazy.

306

622×960 61.3 KB

Push,

Here I am Blue Cord and everything a Loooong time ago

307

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:

Handguns don’t serve much of a purpose other than killing people so I don’t see a huge reason for them to be so prevalent in todays society.[/quote]

LOL…again with the stupid talk. You don’t think they serve much of a purpose except for killing people? (eye roll). That is the idea. If a bad guy tries to kill me I will indeed use it on them. To kill them…get it? It is for personal defense…for killing. Stop blaming the tool and blame the user of that tool.

So you are against the second amendment. Are there any other parts of the constitution that you’d like to randomly remove?

Ah…I see well that’s a good reason to attack the second amendment. You suck at shooting handguns. Here’s an idea and I mean this sincerely. Practice and you’ll get better at it. And if you don’t care to practice keep in mind that there are many of us here in America that enjoy pistol shooting and are quite proficient at it. I’ve had my hand gun license for over half my life. I’ve never harmed anyone with them and find that going to the range is fun and I’ve carried it concealed many, many times in areas where I felt it was necessary.

You don’t like handguns so you’re ready to take that right away from the rest of us who are responsible gun owners?

You are no better than Obama or Hillary…okay that was probably incorrect. Let’s say on this topic you are no better than most left wing nuts who want to restrict hand gun use in America.

One more point, do you really think the bad guys will obey the law? They will go out on a Saturday night and for a few buck purchase their own ILLEGAL hand gun. And they are buying the gun to use against those of us who, if it were up to you, would be defenseless. Also, with the terrorist threat becoming more prevalent you should think twice before disarming honest gun owning citizens.
[/quote]

Zeb,

At no point did I suggest getting rid of guns or the 2nd amendment, in fact I pretty clearly stated that people should be able to have them and that there are so many already in circulation that getting rid of them is probably impossible.

My thought on gun laws is to make the punishment for possession of an illegally owned gun so horrible that people will just go back to stabbing each other rather than risk it.[/quote]

But this is what you said earlier:

  1. “Handguns don’t serve much of a purpose other than killing people so I don’t see a huge reason for them to be so prevalent in todays society.”

  2. “I get that there are a shit ton of them out there already but that shouldn’t be a roadblock to putting much more severe restrictions on their production and sale.”

So it appears that you did say you wanted to put “severe restriction on their production and sale”

You said nothing earlier about simply going after illegal hand guns–no that was never mentioned.

Which is i?[/quote]

ZEB,

Seriously? This is your best effort?

It is both. I am for stricter enforcement for both legal and illegal handguns, holy shit that must seem weird. I think people can own them legally, but I don’t think just anyone should have a gun. I also think that owning one illegally should get you some serious prison time. Neither of my beliefs prevent people from legally obtaining firearms, so unless you think everyone being armed, old west style is a good thing I am not sure what your problem is, I mean other than the fact that you’re an idiot.

308

Pony,

The problem with government scaling back anything is, at what point does it stop ? When the shootings continue, because the evil doers don’t bother following the laws, government will extend the scaling piece by piece.

Government got smart, they realized that going for one big grab never works, so they nickel-and-dime stuff little by little, until they reach their ultimate goal.

People cry about taking guns away from criminals and the mentally ill, sounds great, we tried it here in California. Turns out, the state didn’t bother to follow through due to financial reasons, which is horseshit because this state pulls in $2 Trillion a year.

Oh and those background checks ? The wife passed one for her K-1 Visa, so that didn’t over well either. Government is too stupid, corrupt, or inept to get shit done right, which is why I vote for gridlock.

309

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Push,

Here I am Blue Cord and everything a Loooong time ago[/quote]

Time out. Respect

310

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Push,

Here I am Blue Cord and everything a Loooong time ago[/quote]

Time out. Respect
[/quote]

Truth.

311

Well it seems we the left has made it to their favorite argument.

Guns are racist!!!

312

Mbdix & Maximus,

Thank you.

Maximus,

I fully agree that the government cannot be trusted to just “take a little off the top”, so I understand the concern with blindly letting them tinker with what’s written in the 2nd amendment.
I do however think that there need to be better safeguards towards getting guns and there need to be much stiffer penalties for illegally owning firearms.
Maybe we could release all the non-violent drug offenders and replace the war on drugs with the war on guns (sort of the way NYC policing works now), that way the prisons stay full the cops keep working and we replace jailed potheads with actually dangerous individuals.
I would think that a minimum 12 year stretch for possessing an illegal handgun/firearm would be a huge deterrent. So stricter rules to get handguns and more stringent requirements for keeping them along with harsher penalties would at least help to stem the tide of violence.

Just to be clear, I grew up with guns in my house, my father was in the Marines from 1951- 1974 all of it infantry, he owned 2 handguns (one was a very cool Luger from my maternal Grandads time in Europe) an Enfield, an 1893 Winchester and a few shotguns and while I am not a fan I understand how important they are culturally and even personally. Both of my kids and my wife know how to shoot, load and clean a shotgun and if I were dead I would feel more comfortable if there was one in the house for their protection, so I am not saying we should ban guns, I just think we can do more to keep them out of the wrong hands.

313

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
I am for stricter enforcement for both legal and illegal handguns, holy shit that must seem weird.[/quote]
-What does that mean? Stricter enforcement for legal handguns?

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
I think people can own them legally[/quote]
-That is correct. People can own handguns legally.

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
, but I don’t think just anyone should have a gun.[/quote]
-Interesting. That is a very courageous position.

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
I also think that owning one illegally should get you some serious prison time.[/quote]
-Whether right or wrong, it already does.

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Neither of my beliefs prevent people from legally obtaining firearms,[/quote]
-NO ONE believes that people should be prevented from legally obtaining arms. Not a single person. Some people just believe that some people should be masters while others should be slaves.

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
so unless you think everyone being armed, old west style is a good thing I am not sure what your problem is, I mean other than the fact that you’re an idiot.[/quote]
-Was it this thread, or the other, in which it was pointed out that the Old West actually had more restrictive gun laws than other locations?

316

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Do you think Chicago would have less gang crime if anyone at any time could go to a gun store and buy a gun without a background check? [/quote]

Yes.

There might be more scum bag gang thugs killing each other. That is a possibility. But there would be far less innocent people being killed as the scum that stalk such people just might be thinking “hey that dude is probably packing a gun lets keep walking.”

Keep in mind the example set by the old west from about 1860 to 1895. Everyone from about age 10 on learned to shoot and owned a gun. How many mass shootings were there back then-None.[/quote]

You said yes then immediately contradicted yourself. If more scum bag gang thugs are killing each other that is MORE gang violence, not less. Make up your mind, which one is it?

317

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
I am for stricter enforcement for both legal and illegal handguns, holy shit that must seem weird.[/quote]
-What does that mean? Stricter enforcement for legal handguns?

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
I think people can own them legally[/quote]
-That is correct. People can own handguns legally.

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
, but I don’t think just anyone should have a gun.[/quote]
-Interesting. That is a very courageous position.

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
I also think that owning one illegally should get you some serious prison time.[/quote]
-Whether right or wrong, it already does.

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
Neither of my beliefs prevent people from legally obtaining firearms,[/quote]
-NO ONE believes that people should be prevented from legally obtaining arms. Not a single person. Some people just believe that some people should be masters while others should be slaves.

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
so unless you think everyone being armed, old west style is a good thing I am not sure what your problem is, I mean other than the fact that you’re an idiot.[/quote]
-Was it this thread, or the other, in which it was pointed out that the Old West actually had more restrictive gun laws than other locations?
[/quote]

NickViar,

It’s very tedious to have to read through a sentence by sentence parsing of what I say so that your wit and deep thought can be fully displayed, I will attempt to be concise as tomorrow is Squat day and I need to sleep.

  1. Stricter enforcement to obtain and maintain a legal handgun. More hoops. longer waiting time, same laws nationwide so shitbags don’t drive to another state where laws are more lax.

  2. Illegal handgun=serious prison time- Nick you may not be aware of this but not every state has the same laws for having a handgun without a permit, in fact many states do not require a permit, so my thought is that everybody needs a permit and a serious background check, if you have a handgun ANYWHERE in the US without a permit you go to jail for many years. That is what is called a deterrent.

  3. Masters and Slaves- No idea what you mean by that.

  4. Fuck it -arguing this is pointless. Keep buying guns or whatever, I will continue to not buy them.

I am out

320

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’ve said this in other threads and will again here: if America’s inner city gun violence, especially gang on gang and black on black, is removed from the statistics our country’s gun violence problems mirror those of many low gun death European countries and our assault and rape stats ARE lower than many. Yes, all of this WITH the fact that guns are everywhere in non-inner city America.

Our problem is NOT the high number of guns. It’s the high number of teenage boys with no dad in the home.[/quote]

The gun-control advocacy group rates California’s gun laws No. 1 in the nation; the state ranks 42nd in its rate of gun deaths. Louisiana’s gun laws were ranked 50th and it is No. 2 in deaths, according to the group’s 2014 rankings.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CALIFORNIA_SHOOTINGS_GUN_LAWS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT