Where are all the defenders of Nobama, really how can you logically defend this MOB of his Acorn and that other union. Receiving federal money and acting stupid like left wing nuts.
Does anyone notice that this administration is doing the exact same thing that most South American dictators and European Socialist leaders do when they are opposed? My tin foil hat stays put away most of the time but this is getting surreal.
Well is it any wonder Chavez, the Venezuela Dictator actually likes Obama. I mean he just denied 34 stations in Venezuela the right to renew Broadcasting rights. He shook his hand and gave him a book to read, Im sure Obama read it in one day.
Or why did he wait days to oppose the supposedly democratic elections of Iran. But when Honduras former leader, tries to change the Constitution of Honduras and is ousted, he puts out a statement in a matter of hours. Challenging the Democracy of Honduras, where the president is following in the footsteps of Chavez and the Pre. of Bolivia.
Are we seeing the hippies revolution again, but this time in an opposite direction?
I hope there is a townhall meeting somewhere near me, I will go and bring my camcorder, along with my big ass mouth.
[quote]jre67t wrote:
You stand your ground based on moronic statements, you contribute nothing but hurling insults towards those oppose your retarded views. You always retort with insults which tells me you tuck your tail and run away like a cockroach when the lights come.
I do not post because unlike you LWN, I actually work for a living and do not expect the Gov. to take care of me. Now back to the original question my fellow American, do you support this atrocious bill and why?
I really think your nothing but bully and a coward, just from statements. Also I read almost all this post I just hardly ever post comments you retard. [/quote]
Well if I had to make a guess I’d have attributed your lack of posts more to Mommy not letting you play on the Internets with her computer ever since she found the dirty pictures. Maybe you really do work for a living, but high school starts up again in two to three weeks, so it will be back to working part time.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
jre67t wrote:
…
At 1.26, their rep uttered the dirty secret: “How could the insurance companies make $80 billion per year in profits if they didn’t withhold health care?”
My point exactly, and why, if there is any support of insurance through public mechanisms, their business model must change.
Simple question, Doc. Do you think health insurance companies should extend benefits, i.e., “not withhold health care,” for health care that is not covered in the insured’s policy?
[/quote]
I suppose a contract is a contract, and an individual would weigh the risk and premium and choose accordingly.
Of course, the majority of the insured hold their insurance through employers’ plans, and they have no such choice, or limited choice, in their participation and in the guts of their plan.
Most commercial plans allow for “proven” or “standard” therapy and specifically exclude the unproven. (More on that later.)
Gee…my dentist fixed my TMJ in 5 minutes with a rasp file applied to my molar cusps. Still cured.
I think coverage that is expressly excluded is legally excluded, and a participant hasn’t an option to demand coverage. Technically, they have gained access to a limited risk pool, and they can’t jawbone their way into another risk pool after the fact.
Something to chew over.
[quote]
Or are you more or less speaking of HMO type plans where coverage decisions can be seemingly arbitrary when it comes to extending coverage?
BTW, by definition we all should know that insurance companies cannot literally “withhold health care.” Only health care providers can do that.[/quote]
Were it only so!
What we are led to believe: you could get the care, but your doctors won’t get paid. It is they that are denying care.
Not the case, course. The most expensive technology available to a physician is the ballpoint pen. With it, he can order kilobucks of services, whether warranted or not. But they will not be performed by others without promise of payment.
The least important issue in health care reform is maintaining physicians’ incomes. It is a non-issue with me, it is not even a political point. Physicians income is not even a large part of health care spending.
The issue is access of the patients to services. It is now estimated that the average MD spends 3 work-weeks per year in paper battles with the payors. When HMO or MediCare patients to physicians falls, they abandon services to that population and shift their attention elsewhere. In so doing, they have accomplished the goal of the insurance company and MediCare: reduce patient access to services, and reduce aggregate spending. And in so doing, their interests are aligned with the payors, and not necessarily the patients.
Gee, over in the “Rich People Tax” thread, you argued that income (profit) is successfully hidden by corporations.
It is all a matter of ledgering…you know that.
I can tell you that between 2000 and 2007, the aggregate profit of health insurance industry rose by 482%. Of course, some of this was ledgered as payments to executives (Blue Cross in several states paid, year after year, compensation in excess of 10 million. It was once a non-profit company), dividends, charity (millions to “save the whales”), and significantly, capital for mergers and acquisitions.
Thus the nominal reported “profit” typically ranges from 5% to 15%–a range commensurate to that achieved when indemnity health insurance functioned as utilities. But please do not repeat the tiresome lecture on the glories of capitalism and of the free market. Every reader here knows it; i even agree with it. My plaint is that these practices, and in particular mergers and acquisition, has severely reduced competition and choice in the free market, and rising costs for all.
[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
orion wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
jre67t wrote:
How much profit is that compared to other industries?
If they do not have a competitive ROI, why invest in the insurance business?
Plus, it is painfully simple to lead that ad absurdum:
Why don’t they deny ALL claims and make even more profit?
Because nobody would buy their product, thats why. The market keeps them comparably honest.
Gee, over in the “Rich People Tax” thread, you argued that income (profit) is successfully hidden by corporations.
It is all a matter of ledgering…you know that.
[/quote]
I swear I did no such thing.
I claimed that corporations do not really pay taxes but pass them on to the consumers.
the dems are calling the protesters nazis, but they bring in their union thugs, to try to squash them. The Obamaists are asking for violence . Self Defensive groups need to be formed to escort and defend the protesters from the Obamaist thugs if need be. the police can’t be counted on to protect the protesters. The divide will keep growing.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I hope there is a townhall meeting somewhere near me, I will go and bring my camcorder, along with my big ass mouth. [/quote]
same thing here, but one thing, I will help defend the protesters. A chance to move against the Obamaists and their leftist allies. the seeds are being sown
[quote]pushharder wrote:
John S. wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/07/health-care-town-hall-turns-violent-tampa/
Lets see commander hope and change explain this…
One conservative activist, interviewed at a local emergency room where he was being treated for injuries, said he was attacked by some of the individuals who were arrested as he passed out “Don’t tread on me” flags.
Edit*
Health care opponents said liberal organizers had tried to allow early admission to those who were seen as favorable to legislation making its way through Congress. Reed denied the accusations, saying those brought in were organizers helping to set up the town hall.
They also tried to stack the town hall.
The revolt is coming.
Good quote in that article by one of the protesters, “They carried signs saying: ‘Obamacare Seniors beware! Rationing is here,’ and ‘If socialized medicine is best … why didn’t Ted Kennedy go to Canada?’” Motorists honked as they drove by. Kennedy is battling brain cancer.[/quote]
I will 100% support government health care if every elected official in this country MUST BE ENROLLED in the plan. If EVERY STATE, FEDERAL, and LOCAL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE was also enrolled. And banned from buying any private insurance and was compelled to use this as their retirement health insurance.
You’re a retired President, sue the plan. And you can’t use private funds or another insurance policy to pay for your care.
Then I’ll sign on.
Riddle me this, Batman, how many American citizens are without healthcare because they cannot obtain it, not just because they chose not to buy it?
Who knows, many people without HEALTH INSURANCE NOT HEALTHCARE, RIDDLER, and there is a difference chose not to buy their own. I was single and bought my own. It’s not very difficult. Check into it. I paid 1000$ dollars a year for health insurance with a 5000$ dollar deductible. My out of pocket expenses were less than 100$ a year. You can buy it, I did.
Try again.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Who knows, many people without HEALTH INSURANCE NOT HEALTHCARE, RIDDLER, and there is a difference chose not to buy their own. I was single and bought my own. It’s not very difficult. Check into it. I paid 1000$ dollars a year for health insurance with a 5000$ dollar deductible. My out of pocket expenses were less than 100$ a year. You can buy it, I did.
Try again.[/quote]
Hey, assclown, I was trying to posture a question, upon which being answered we could debate whether the costs is worth the tiny percentage of people it would insure. If it’s not difficult to obtain, why will I have to pay for other people’s insurance?
Better yet, what percentage of insurance premiums is due to non-tax payers, more specifically people who should not be in the country, using medical facilities? Perhaps this health care plan is just attempting to treat a perceived sympton, and not the actual disease.
BTW: I think you should read my posts before assuming which way I lean. Which happens to be away from the currently slated healthcare bill.
I’ll agree with the underlying principle of this thread - its a joke how the very same people who came to power through community organizing are now down playing the town halls meeting today because people are actually opposing their proposals. I however do think the attack on Irish is just simply retarded. I don’t post here much, nor do I agree with much of what Irish says but he is entitled to his opinion as are the rest of us… bash the idea not the person, unless of course its one of these people in office calling ObamaCare opposition nazi’s or GOP/Private insurance “plants.”
Your administration and their cronies like to say there are 47-50 million uninsured. This is true, but lets break it down. These are close estimates:
10+ million are illegals
13+ million make well over 50k and CHOOSE(<- that’s important) to not insure
10+ million are under 34 and also CHOOSE to pay out of pocket
That leaves 13+ million and the vast majority of those are either eligible for Medicare/Medicaid and are just to lazy to apply or are in between jobs and are only without for 4 months or less.
The general consensus of those who have actually studied it is there are no more than 3-4 million CITIZENS who actually want coverage and are ineligible. That’s a whopping 1% folks. And emergency rooms are free for everyone, brought to you by those of us who do pay their healthcare and taxes.
As a side note, I’m 34, a business owner, and I pay 126 bucks a month for a Blue Cross personal plan with a $750 deductible. If you own a cellphone, buy games for your XBOX, or go out to dinner twice a month, you can afford insurance.
There you go, the numbers are inflated to get this plan through.
[quote]Therizza wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Who knows, many people without HEALTH INSURANCE NOT HEALTHCARE, RIDDLER, and there is a difference chose not to buy their own. I was single and bought my own. It’s not very difficult. Check into it. I paid 1000$ dollars a year for health insurance with a 5000$ dollar deductible. My out of pocket expenses were less than 100$ a year. You can buy it, I did.
Try again.
Hey, assclown, I was trying to posture a question, upon which being answered we could debate whether the costs is worth the tiny percentage of people it would insure. If it’s not difficult to obtain, why will I have to pay for other people’s insurance?
Better yet, what percentage of insurance premiums is due to non-tax payers, more specifically people who should not be in the country, using medical facilities? Perhaps this health care plan is just attempting to treat a perceived sympton, and not the actual disease.
BTW: I think you should read my posts before assuming which way I lean. Which happens to be away from the currently slated healthcare bill.[/quote]
I did not assume any way you lean, assclown, I wanted to point out the difference of the two terms which people interchange when they should not be.
This is purely a government takeover straight out of the Marxist textbook. Create a crisis and government solves it, shoring up their power and taking away freedom.
Don’t assume I’m assuming anything about you. You and your opinions do not matter to me. What matters is defeating this bill with facts. I don’t debate on the net, I tell you the facts as I know it and my opinion based on those facts.
As the fellow stated we have about 10 -15 million citizens who are legitimately not covered by insurance… Dot hey qualify for medicaid? I’m not sure. Can they afford a cheap high deductible insurance policy like car insurance offers to protect against a serious illness and the financial stress of that?
You have a 30000$ bill after a serious illness, your high deductible policy covers all but 5K. You talk to the billing department and ask for hardship discount. Ask them if you had BC/BS would you owe this remaining balance? If they won’t negotiate you ask them to accept 100$ a month with no interest. Most will. Problem solved.
We don’t have a health care or insurance crisis. We have a financial irresponsibility and I shouldn’t have to pay the doctor crisis and lack of brains crisis.
And a Socialist president crisis.
The mere fact that approximately 20% of the uninsured people mentioned are illegal is pathetic.
TME:
Well if I had to make a guess I’d have attributed your lack of posts more to Mommy not letting you play on the Internets with her computer ever since she found the dirty pictures. Maybe you really do work for a living, but high school starts up again in two to three weeks, so it will be back to working part time.
Excellent post tme63 guess you a have tag team partner here. Hold on I think my mommy is calling me, brb. Okay im back dude, had to clean my room.
Really did I hurt your feelings or something or does your V hurt from to much pounding?
Theriiza:
BTW: I think you should read my posts before assuming which way I lean. Which happens to be away from the currently slated healthcare bill. Why dont you take that advise before you try to attack somebody, or are you trying to emulate fagishirish, hmmm?
Ah men I hear my mom calling me again, let me close this other window (naked girls) before she checks up on me. See u later bro.