Revisiting the Alleged Leak

Some very good stuff re: Bob Woodward:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/baroneblog/columns/barone_051117.htm

11/17/05
What Bob Woodward knew

What to think of the quite astonishing revelation that Bob Woodward was told by administration sources?not Scooter Libby or Karl Rove, it seems clear?that Joseph Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA, and told a month before what Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said was the first revelation by an administration source, Libby, to a member of the press?

Here’s the story from yesterday’s Post on Woodward’s testimony ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501857.html ), and here’s Woodward’s statement ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501829.html ), printed next to the story on the jump page.

Here’s the story by the Post’s excellent media reporter Howard Kurtz ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/16/AR2005111601286.html?sub=AR ) on Woodward’s apology to Post Executive Editor Leonard Downie for not telling him about this some time ago. Here’s the transcript of Fitzgerald’s press conference ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801340.html ).

Woodward, according to Kurtz, notified Downie of the June 2003 interviews “late last month,” i.e., October 2005. Kurtz quotes Woodward’s reason for not notifying him earlier: “I hunkered down. I’m in the habit of keeping secrets. I didn’t want anything out there that was going to get me subpoenaed.” It appears that Woodward’s source outed Woodward to Fitzgerald, and Woodward gave sworn testimony to Fitzgerald this past Monday.

The Post story appeared on Woodward’s testimony, and Woodward’s statement appeared in yesterday’s issue. Kurtz’s interview appeared on www.washingtonpost.com later in the day.

This morning’s Post ran a story saying that Woodward’s disclosure tends to undermine the case against Libby ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/16/AR2005111602147.html ).

Observations:

In yesterday’s story, Woodward is quoted as saying that he told Post reporter Walter Pincus that he had heard that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA. Pincus is quoted as saying that he does not recall Woodward’s telling him this and that he is sure he would have remembered if Woodward had. I have known Woodward for 32 years and Pincus for about 20 years, and I find it impossible to believe that either would consciously lie about such matters.

Therefore, I am forced to believe that memory is playing tricks on one of them. Since memory plays tricks on me from time to time, I don’t find that implausible.

But you could see this as a sort of partisan dispute. Woodward’s reporting on George W. Bush, as is evident in his books, is seen by many critics as pro-Bush. In my view, he has taken Bush at face value, describing how the president makes decisions and taking Bush’s own words seriously.

Which is, in my view, the way it should be. Pincus’s reporting, on the other hand, has relied heavily on critics of the Bush policies, including, it appears, sources in the CIA. It is obvious that cadres in the CIA?the folks around Valerie Plame who sent Joseph Wilson on his mission to Niger, the folks who authorized the publication of Michael Scheuer’s “anonymous” book?have been trying to discredit and undermine support for Bush’s policy of liberating Iraq.

I suspect that Pincus takes the same view, though he could argue that his reporting was justified regardless of his own views: He was just reporting what others, with some knowledge of what they were talking about, were saying. I don’t want to say that Woodward is pro-Bush and Pincus anti-Bush. But I can see how readers who don’t know these men as well as I do would so conclude.

One sees something here that resembles the intra-newsroom internecine warfare at the New York Times between Judith Miller and those?the great majority in that newsroom, it seems?who believe that her stories on reports that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction were illegitimate journalism.

That seems to me quite wrong: She was reporting on what sources she had reason to believe were legitimate said, and she was not obliged before she wrote those stories to seek information to discredit what in fact the intelligence agencies of the United States and all serious countries believed. Miller’s reporting was trashed in a huge mea culpa story in the Times last year, and she has now been forced to leave the paper.

I am inclined to believe that she has been found guilty of writing stories that furthered the goals of the Bush administration, which of course is something the Times cannot allow.

The Post’s position is different. Downie did not order Woodward to write about his interviews with administration officials immediately after Woodward informed him about them. But after Woodward provided sworn testimony to Fitzgerald, the paper promptly wrote up the story, together with Woodward’s statement, and then allowed Kurtz to pursue the story further.

It put the contradiction between Woodward’s and Pincus’s recollections out there for all to see and interpret as they wish. Downie, who presumably made the decisions about what the Post would print, has let the facts and the reporting speak for themselves and not imposed a politically correct frame of reference.

This is in line with what I expect from Downie, whom I have known for at least 20 years, and who I believe seeks fairness and accuracy above all else. Mickey Kaus speculates ( http://www.radioblogger.com/#001169 ) that the official from whom Woodward heard that Wilson’s wife worked in the CIA was Secretary of State Colin Powell. It’s obvious from more than one of Woodward’s books that Powell is one of his best sources.

Patrick Fitzgerald has to be embarrassed. His statement at his press conference that Libby was the first administration official who identified Plame has been effectively refuted by Woodward’s (reluctant) testimony.

On Fox News Channel last night, Brit Hume interviewed former U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Joseph diGenova ( http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175727,00.html ), who said that under Justice Department guidelines Fitzgerald must consider dropping the indictment of Libby.

It is now clear that Mr. Libby’s allegation by his lawyers that his memory was simply faulty makes a lot more sense now that we know that Bob Woodward was in fact the first person to receive that information not from Mr. Libby but from another, apparently former, government official," diGenova said.

Former Justice Department official Victoria Toensing, diGenova’s wife and law partner, said, “He has been investigating a very simple factual scenario, and he has missed this crucial fact. It makes you cry out for asking, ‘Well, what else did he not know; what else did he not do?’”

Defenders of Fitzgerald’s indictment can argue that its charges that Libby lied still stand. But the differing recollections of Woodward and Pincus could strengthen a defense based on faulty memory, and Woodward’s disclosure refutes the timeline that Fitzgerald presented at his press conference.

Beyond the confines of this criminal case are the perspectives of the Bush administration that will be taken by history. The view from Woodward’s books is of a president and his advisers trying to find policies that will protect this country and advance the causes of freedom and democracy in a difficult world.

The view from the reportage of Pincus and of the “Bush lied” crowd of Democrats is of a “cabal” (Colin Powell’s chief of staff’s word) bent on distorting intelligence and willing to risk the country’s security by outing a secret CIA agent in retaliation for her husband’s critical op-ed piece in the New York Times. I think the outlook from Woodward’s book is more accurate.

And I think his bombshell revelation weakens the already weak case for the alternative point of view. At a dinner at the Australian Embassy, I asked the by then former CIA Director George Tenet whether people in the agency had been engaging in covert attacks on administration policy. He said that absolutely no such thing had taken place. I doubted that then and doubt it very much more now.

Bob Woodward first won his fame by exposing the lies of a White House that had attempted, unsuccessfully, to use the CIA to refute charges that its campaign committee had engaged in criminal activities. Now he comes forward, reluctantly it seems, to provide evidence that advances the case that the CIA tried to derail and delegitimize the policies that a White House was pursuing.

I recall that some years ago Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan argued that the CIA should be abolished, and I argued that that was a ridiculous and irresponsible position. As usual when Pat and I disagreed, Pat turned out to be right.

Here’s some interesting speculation that Woodward’s source was Richard Armitage:

Isikoff And Thomas Point To Armitage

Evan Thomas and Michael Isikoff of Newsweek review the bidding in the Woodward leak mystery, and single out former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage as a likely suspect( MSN ):

[i]So who is Novak's source?and Woodward's source?and why will his identity take the wind out of the brewing storm? One by one last week, a parade of current and former senior officials, including the CIA's George Tenet and national-security adviser Stephen Hadley, denied being the source.

A conspicuous exception was former deputy secretary of State Richard Armitage, whose office would only say, “We’re not commenting.” He was one of a handful of top officials who had access to the information. He is an old source and friend of Woodward’s, and he fits Novak’s description of his source as “not a partisan gunslinger.” Woodward has indicated that he knows the identity of Novak’s source, which further suggests his source and Novak’s were one and the same.

If Armitage was the original leaker, that undercuts the argument that outing Plame was a plot by the hard-liners in the veep's office to "out" Plame. Armitage was, if anything, a foe of the neocons who did not want to go to war in Iraq. He had no motive to discredit Wilson. [/i]

Motive and opportunity. Let’s start with opportunity - was Armitage in a position to pass along news of a Wilson and wife connection by mid-June? From Jeralyn Merritt ( Iskikoff: Novak and Woodward's Source May Be the Same - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime ), we get this from the Aug 25 LA Times:

After a June 12 Washington Post story made reference to the Niger uranium inquiry, Armitage asked intelligence officers in the State Department for more information. He was forwarded a copy of a memo classified “Secret” that included a description of Wilson’s trip for the CIA, his findings, a brief description of the origin of the trip and a reference to “Wilson’s wife.”

Fair enough - Washington was buzzing about the June 12 Pincus story ( http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=1160&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported ) and the Kristof columns of May 6 ( Missing in Action: Truth ) and June 13 ( CNN.com - White House in Denial - Jun. 13, 2003 ) on the secret envoy that debunked the uranium reporting and discredited the Sixteen Words, and Armitage wanted the inside scoop.

And how about motive? Let’s accept their assertion that “[Armitage] had no motive to discredit Wilson.” However, the State Dept. had a strong motive to discredit the CIA.

As excerpted in this post, the State Dept (INR) representative at the meeting that launched the Wilson trip was skeptical that the trip would provide any useful intelligence, and was not impressed by the resulting Wilson report.

Furthermore, the INR / State Dept had been consistently more skeptical of the uranium reporting than the CIA. However, in the hastily marshalled October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, the INR dissent on the uranium reporting was lost in a footnote in a different section (SSCI Report, conclusion 17: REPORT ON THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY'S PREWAR INTELLIGENCE ASSESSMENTS ON IRAQ ).

So, if asked about the Wilson trip being glorified by Kristof and Pincus ( http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/348parxy.asp?pg=2 ), what might an informed person at State say? After snorting derisively, they might say that on the uranium question, it was amateur hour at the CIA - they put together an ill-conceived and inconclusive trip, misplaced the timely INR dissent, mishandled the forgeries, and generally bungled the issue.

And as further evidence of the amateur-hour approach, the tidbit that Wilson was tapped for the trip by his wife may have been tossed in an amusing bit of supportive gossip intended to discredit the CIA, not Wilson.

Is that what happened? Might be - Newsweek seems to be leaning that way.

MORE: Add Condi Rice to the denials list.

Boston, do you think maybe you could cut out and post the vital bits… instead of quoting the entire stinkload of crap at a time?

It’s wonderful that you can continually find blogs and articles with viewpoints that are supportive of the administration, but they are still just opinions, even if you agree and they are written better than an average meathead writes.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Boston, do you think maybe you could cut out and post the vital bits… instead of quoting the entire stinkload of crap at a time?

It’s wonderful that you can continually find blogs and articles with viewpoints that are supportive of the administration, but they are still just opinions, even if you agree and they are written better than an average meathead writes.
[/quote]

vroom,

The blogs I frequent are “better than an average meathead writes” because they tend to be written by professors, journalists and grad students.

The ones above are by journalists who happen to also write blogs.

And they’re relatively short – I would think someone of your intelligence would rather have the whole blog post rather than having me tell you what’s important. Besides, I wouldn’t want to be accused of “cherry picking” from my sources…

Boston,

There is the really cool thing on the Internet.

It’s known as a link!

Instead of cutting and pasting an entire load of bung, you can simply point to it… while providing excerpts so that readers can get the flavor of the bung and decide whether or not they wish to ingest all of it.

Isn’t that cool?

[quote]vroom wrote:
Boston,

There is the really cool thing on the Internet.

It’s known as a link!

Instead of cutting and pasting an entire load of bung, you can simply point to it… while providing excerpts so that readers can get the flavor of the bung and decide whether or not they wish to ingest all of it.

Isn’t that cool?[/quote]

Or better yet, pull out the parts you actually agree with and quote those. Otherwise, as I have stated before, it seems as if you are hiding your own opinion behind that of someone else…instead of using their opinion to back up your own.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Boston,

There is the really cool thing on the Internet.

It’s known as a link!

Instead of cutting and pasting an entire load of bung, you can simply point to it… while providing excerpts so that readers can get the flavor of the bung and decide whether or not they wish to ingest all of it.

Isn’t that cool?[/quote]

Now vroom is too lazy to read supporting evidence from the other side.

“It’s too long…wah”. “There’s too many big words…wah”.

I’m thinking that actually using supporting documentation kinda gets in the way of the thinktard’s argument.

FYI- vroom. You’re not the onlyone here reading this stuff. Shut up and sit in the corner if you just going to whine and complain about how BB does his thing.

Or - maybe get on topic instead of changing the subject to the length of Boston’s posts.

Seems to me is that generally if you just post a link it’s ignored, whereas if you post the article itself you get comments. I’ve tried it both ways, and have settled on the way that seems to get the most response.

Rainjack,

If you can criticize me for everything including the color of my toilet, taking cheap shots all day long, I can certainly suggest to Boston that he learn the fine art of taking excerpts and providing links.

Readers are perfectly able to follow such links if they so wish, including your oh so important self.

Bad bye.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Rainjack,

If you can criticize me for everything including the color of my toilet, taking cheap shots all day long, I can certainly suggest to Boston that he learn the fine art of taking excerpts and providing links.

Readers are perfectly able to follow such links if they so wish, including your oh so important self.

Bad bye.[/quote]

Now you change the subject to my takng pot shots at you. Are you the pot or the kettle this time?

Try responding to BB’s post instead of crawling behind your excuse wall.

I know this will be met with the standard vroom reply - but please show me where I have taken even the slightest interest in your toilet - much less criticized the color of it.

Brewster Jennings…end of discussion.

Boston,

Great, you’ve described two ways, there is a third way – do a bit of work and pull out the significant excerpts and save us all a bit of time?

It’s not like any of us have jobs or anything and could use the help shaving off a few moments here and there… :wink:

Actually, I’d go along with the notion that it’s helpful to point out what’s significant in some longer piece when flinging it up here.

As to thread, to review the bidding:

  1. It seems that at one point Plame’s status with the CIA was a secret known only to those with clearance and, I gather, her parents and husband.

  2. At a later point, in violation of federal law, this information became common knowledge among the Washington press corps (but strangely, the fact that it was common knowledge was not, apparently, common knowledge.)

  3. Wilson made some statements that cast doubt on the bona fides of one of the administration’s key justifications for the invasion of Iraq.

  4. With prompting from inside the administration, the information about Wilson’s wife was used by the media to suggest that Wilson’s statements should be discounted, that his input should have been discounted, or rather that Wilson himself should be discounted.

  5. Interestingly, there had been other reasons to discount Wilson’s input, that did not involve his wife. But these were not pointed out at the time.

  6. Directly or indirectly, Ms. Plame was frequently discussed with members of the media by assorted administration sources - but never for attribution - in the time frame of the negative impact from Wilson’s statements.

  7. Fitzgerald believes he has a good case that Libby lied and perjured himself, and obstructed justice. He has convened a new grand jury to get at the focal question of how 2) came about.

  8. The administration manufactured reasons for the invasion of Iraq out of whole cloth (the Hussein/al Qaeda connection) and intentionally misrepresented the goodness of the intelligence underlying others (WMD, both aluminum tubes and Curveball).

  9. Inside the beltway is a tight little world of obsessive official secrecy, managed leaks, self-seeking water carriers, and chummy media reportage. ‘Embed and rule’ is the new dictum for managing the media, carried on right up to the level of Woodward in the White House. Media and public opinion are further led around by the nose by Reston and the Pentagon’s misinformation program (no, that program never actually went away.)

  10. Outside the beltway are the rest of us, many of whom are beginning to get the clue that we’ve been swindled and stampeded, and who are getting very, very pissed.

Brewster Jennings

and

The White House admitted their intelligence on the Niger claim was faulty the day after Wilson published his Op-Ed.

Everything else is BS!

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Brewster Jennings

and

The White House admitted their intelligence on the Niger claim was faulty the day after Wilson published his Op-Ed.

Everything else is BS![/quote]

Uhm, sorry but the yellow cake claim was & still is true.

http://www.archive2.official-documents.co.uk/document/deps/hc/hc898/898.pdf

Page 122, point pts. 493 - 499

As you might guess, I have a somewhat different reading of the available facts.

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
Actually, I’d go along with the notion that it’s helpful to point out what’s significant in some longer piece when flinging it up here.

As to thread, to review the bidding:

  1. It seems that at one point Plame’s status with the CIA was a secret known only to those with clearance and, I gather, her parents and husband.[/quote]

At some point, meaning, over 5 years ago and not within the statutory definition of “covert operative.”

Also, given that the CIA apparently authorized Joe Wilson to write his op-ed, not a highly guarded secret at least as of that time.

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
2) At a later point, in violation of federal law, this information became common knowledge among the Washington press corps (but strangely, the fact that it was common knowledge was not, apparently, common knowledge.)[/quote]

You’re assuming your conclusion here with “in violation of federal law.” Which law? If she didn’t meet the definition of “covert agent,” then not the law guarding the identities of covert agents. And the Espionage Act of 1918? Please don’t tell me you’re going to attempt to stretch that to fit that – to me, it’s quite an implausible stretch, especially given the context of the bill itself.

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:

  1. Wilson made some statements that cast doubt on the bona fides of one of the administration’s key justifications for the invasion of Iraq.[/quote]

No he didn’t. Though he claimed he did. His report actually lent weight to the actual claim, though not the straw-man he claimed was the claim. Recall the claim: [my paraphrase] The British have let us know that they have info indicating Iraq attempted to purchase yellowcake uranium from Niger.

BTW, don’t bother getting in to the “forged Italian documents.” Those were the basis of the CIA’s initial belief that Saddam had been after uranium – the British based their assessment on separate intelligence.

Wilson claimed to have shown Iraq didn’t buy any. Which, of course, didn’t affect the claim at all, which was that they sought to buy it.

In addition, his actual report, from what we know of it, indicated that Iraqis had met with Nigerian officials, and that the Nigerian officials believed the Iraqis were interested in purchasing uranium.

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:

  1. With prompting from inside the administration, the information about Wilson’s wife was used by the media to suggest that Wilson’s statements should be discounted, that his input should have been discounted, or rather that Wilson himself should be discounted.[/quote]

At least w/r/t Woodward, he has specifically stated that his source mentioned Plame in an offhand, “gossipy” manner in the course of a regular conversation. That would not seem to indicate any “prompting.”

W/r/t what might be “prompting,” what we know would seem to require adding some facts to your statement. Libby was talking about the fact Plame suggested Wilson only because Wilson specifically said he was sent by the VP - that was the specific claim they wanted to countermand, not Wilson’s weakly-reasoned attempts at “discrediting” the administration by attacking something that wasn’t claimed.

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:

  1. Interestingly, there had been other reasons to discount Wilson’s input, that did not involve his wife. But these were not pointed out at the time.[/quote]

They were at the time (if not immediately then soon thereafter), and have been, pointed out over and over again. Especially subsequent to the reports of the 9/11 Commission and the Senate Intelligence Commtittee. There are a multitude of reasons to discount Wilson’s input, so I understand how it might have been hard to choose among them…

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:

  1. Directly or indirectly, Ms. Plame was frequently discussed with members of the media by assorted administration sources - but never for attribution - in the time frame of the negative impact from Wilson’s statements.[/quote]

True. Either in “offhand conversations” (which seem likely sourced to the State Department, which, to believe speculation, was more like a punch line because Wilson was a joke) or in conversations aimed at Wilson’s claim that the vice president had him sent to Niger.

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:

  1. Fitzgerald believes he has a good case that Libby lied and perjured himself, and obstructed justice. He has convened a new grand jury to get at the focal question of how 2) came about.[/quote]

First sentence true. Second is speculation as to the reason to reconvene. Especially as Woodward’s subsequent revelations throw off the timeline that Fitzgerald was going to use to prove the item in your first sentence. If Woodward and others were already discussing Plame in early June, Fitzgerald’s perjury case against Libby looks much shakier than it would if Libby were the original source, which is what he believed earlier.

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:

  1. The administration manufactured reasons for the invasion of Iraq out of whole cloth (the Hussein/al Qaeda connection) and intentionally misrepresented the goodness of the intelligence underlying others (WMD, both aluminum tubes and Curveball).[/quote]

Let’s just say I disagree. Iraq and al Queda did have a connection, though that is different from saying Iraq helped to plan 9/11. As to “intentionally misrepresented” the value of the intelligence, again, I disagree. But it’s actually not relevant to this anyway.

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:

  1. Inside the beltway is a tight little world of obsessive official secrecy, managed leaks, self-seeking water carriers, and chummy media reportage. ‘Embed and rule’ is the new dictum for managing the media, carried on right up to the level of Woodward in the White House. Media and public opinion are further led around by the nose by Reston and the Pentagon’s misinformation program (no, that program never actually went away.)

  2. Outside the beltway are the rest of us, many of whom are beginning to get the clue that we’ve been swindled and stampeded, and who are getting very, very pissed.[/quote]

I’d imagine you’d be pissed if you were hoping this investigation would turn into some sort of proof that the administration lied about its pre-war intelligence. Or even that Libby’s trial would focus on that. That frustration looks to continue.

But I think you’re going a tad far with “the rest of us,” at least unless you define “us” with precision to be those who are already convinced of all your assumptions.

Boston,

While I understand your attempts to shore up the position of the republicans at ever opportunity, the timeline question may in fact have precisely zero impact on the perjury issue.

Statements regarding the impact of Woodward’s new information on current indictments is pure speculation on your part.

Perhaps if you don’t like basing your viewpoint on the speculation of others then you shouldn’t present it yourself as support for your viewpoint?

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
Brewster Jennings

and

The White House admitted their intelligence on the Niger claim was faulty the day after Wilson published his Op-Ed.

Everything else is BS!

Uhm, sorry but the yellow cake claim was & still is true.

http://www.archive2.official-documents.co.uk/document/deps/hc/hc898/898.pdf

Page 122, point pts. 493 - 499[/quote]

It stuns me how many people don’t know that Wilson was wrong. It shows that this administration has horrble communication skills and the MSM has no real interest in presenting the truth.

Similarly, I’m continually amazed at how many people think that Al Gore suggested he actually invented the Internet, and also how supporters of the most misspoken president ever won’t forgive Al Gore for his minor slip.

Yup, people are stupid.

Al Gore actually championed the cause of the internet, but he takes a lot of heat for something I don’t think he said quite like he is quoted.