Resume: Include References or Not?

Ok, that was something I was unsure about. I have changed it all to past tense.

Thanks.

[quote]PaddyM wrote:
I’ve got to run but something I noted is your lack of proper tense. If you no longer work there use past, if you still work there, present. Also, keep it simple.

ex:
Assisted customers by answering questions about electronic appliances.

And, “References available upon request” works just fine[/quote]

I don’t go past tense. I say, “Assist customers with fucking retarded questions. Refrain from punching customers in faces.”

[quote]pushmepullme wrote:

[quote]PaddyM wrote:
I’ve got to run but something I noted is your lack of proper tense. If you no longer work there use past, if you still work there, present. Also, keep it simple.

ex:
Assisted customers by answering questions about electronic appliances.

And, “References available upon request” works just fine[/quote]

I don’t go past tense. I say, “Assist customers with fucking retarded questions. Refrain from punching customers in faces.”

[/quote]

Hah, how’s that working out?

I am the hiring partner at a mid-sized (50 lawyer) law firm.

  1. One page for all education and jobs.

  2. Have references available, about 3-5, preferably former employers. Have about 10 copies. Some HR lady will probably process you. Give one of those to her.

  3. Call the references before you list them and ask permission to list them. Yes, I have someone call them.

  4. Get stupid shit off your Facebook page. Yes, your employer will look.

  5. My legal assistant will run a criminal background check, general background (everything from cars you own to who you lived with — I have the same database as the FBI) and credit check if we can legally.

  6. Yeah, we check your transcript. If you have crappy grades, list them anyway. Don’t waste your or our time. I’ve even called professors.

Unless your religion requires it, no facial hair.

No visible tattos.

Button down shirt, long-sleeved, unless you are an IT dork. Slacks.

Tie if you wear a jacket.

Even better, dress like you would at your mother’s funeral and were an Eagle Scout.

Don’t be late. I don’t want cool people. I want people who show up on time and do what the fuck I say.

Answer my questions straight up and don’t dance around crap.

Don’t ask about vacations or flex time or any crap besides whether it is OK to work through lunch and stay late.

For the military people, bring your DD214 (copies are fine). Employers can’t ask for it (generally), but you can sure give it to them.

I am ex military (IAF, Israel) for 12 years and worked (and flew) with a lot of American zoomies.

It’s a big deal to me and pretty much anyone who served, wherever they served.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I am the hiring partner at a mid-sized (50 lawyer) law firm.

  1. One page for all education and jobs.

  2. Have references available, about 3-5, preferably former employers. Have about 10 copies. Some HR lady will probably process you. Give one of those to her.

  3. Call the references before you list them and ask permission to list them. Yes, I have someone call them.

  4. Get stupid shit off your Facebook page. Yes, your employer will look.

  5. My legal assistant will run a criminal background check, general background (everything from cars you own to who you lived with — I have the same database as the FBI) and credit check if we can legally.

  6. Yeah, we check your transcript. If you have crappy grades, list them anyway. Don’t waste your or our time. I’ve even called professors.

Unless your religion requires it, no facial hair.

No visible tattos.

Button down shirt, long-sleeved, unless you are an IT dork. Slacks.

Tie if you wear a jacket.

Even better, dress like you would at your mother’s funeral and were an Eagle Scout.

Don’t be late. I don’t want cool people. I want people who show up on time and do what the fuck I say.

Answer my questions straight up and don’t dance around crap.

Don’t ask about vacations or flex time or any crap besides whether it is OK to work through lunch and stay late.

[/quote]
Then at that point I would whip it out and piss on your desk… hehe

[quote]tmay11 wrote:
Travis

Objective �¢?? To retain a part-time position while attending university.

Work Experience

Sales Associate Sears November 2009 �¢?? April 2010

[/quote]

You don’t need to include the month in the time period, it should look more like.
Sales Associate 2009-2010
Sears, Location of the store.
Job description in point form.

Use Point form to keep it simple (no one wants to read your life story), making sure you speak in the correct tense.

Always stay between 1-2 pages with the body of the resume…
If you include a cover letter then add a page,
If you’re going in for a job interview and bringing a copy of your resume with references then add a page (in case they misplaced your original, as it can happen if they’re going through 20-30 resumes for a job)
If you’re going door to door and spill something on the resume…junk it…you can always print a new one and you won’t kill the environment throwing a couple of pages away
Always staple the resume
Don’t copy back to back
Always put your contact info at the top of each page…as they could lose one
Always make sure you talk to your potential references before putting them on your resume as they might not like it if you just put them
Use white paper…I don’t care how pretty your pink paper is…don’t use it

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I am the hiring partner at a mid-sized (50 lawyer) law firm.

  1. One page for all education and jobs.

  2. Have references available, about 3-5, preferably former employers. Have about 10 copies. Some HR lady will probably process you. Give one of those to her.

  3. Call the references before you list them and ask permission to list them. Yes, I have someone call them.

  4. Get stupid shit off your Facebook page. Yes, your employer will look.

  5. My legal assistant will run a criminal background check, general background (everything from cars you own to who you lived with — I have the same database as the FBI) and credit check if we can legally.

  6. Yeah, we check your transcript. If you have crappy grades, list them anyway. Don’t waste your or our time. I’ve even called professors.

Unless your religion requires it, no facial hair.

No visible tattos.

Button down shirt, long-sleeved, unless you are an IT dork. Slacks.

Tie if you wear a jacket.

Even better, dress like you would at your mother’s funeral and were an Eagle Scout.

Don’t be late. I don’t want cool people. I want people who show up on time and do what the fuck I say.

Answer my questions straight up and don’t dance around crap.

Don’t ask about vacations or flex time or any crap besides whether it is OK to work through lunch and stay late.

[/quote]

It is very hard to take you seriously with a name like Jewbacca

If you are just trying to get a summer job, or a part-time entry level (I personally never go for entry level) stick to one page and fuck references no one reads it, they are not trusting you with anything so they really do not care.

I know this is shocking, but “Jewbacca” is not my real name.

What I wrote is valid. If you don’t care, your loss.

[quote]tmay11 wrote:
Travis

Objective �¢?? To retain a part-time position while attending university.

Work Experience

Sales Associate Sears November 2009 �¢?? April 2010

 Sales Associate at a Sears store. Worked in the sale of major appliances and electronics.

Assisting and guiding customers through purchase decisions providing honest and articulate answers to questions
Processing purchases and returns, account payments, and warranty claims
Opening and closing the registers, cash handling, organizing and updating signage, inventory, and records
Maintaining a professional appearance representative of the establishment
Distinguishing between different levels of urgency during busy hours and prioritizing tasks
Communication and rapport building with customers
Working successfully in a fast paced stressful environment that demanded efficient multi-tasking

Apprentice Electrician Villa Electric Ltd March 2008 �¢?? July 2009

1st  year apprentice working at wood frame and steel stud construction sites throughout the Lower Mainland.

Basic circuitry and wire pulling
Framing and piping work �¢?? reframing trouble areas
Installing heaters, lights, switches, plugs, and dishwashers
Extended periods of intensive focus when working on live circuits
Adaptive problem solving and simple mathematics
Working as part of a team �¢?? organizing and sequencing tasks and workers for increased productivity

General Labourer Marzstone Contracting September 2007 �¢?? February 2008

General Labourer involved in hard-landscape. Worked in the installation of paving stone driveways.

Operating the cutting saw and skid-steer
Laying and grading of substrate, installation of paving stones
Adhering to strict safety procedures
Heavy lifting �¢?? prolonged periods of intense exertion

Education

            Graduated from Brookswood Secondary School 06/07
            Attending Kwantlen Polytechnic University in pursuit of a degree in business administration 	

References

            Excellent references available from all employers upon request.

[/quote]

A couple things I noticed.

You have about 7 lines explaining to me what a sales associate does. I know what a sales associate does; your resume implies I don’t. This insults me. Everyone knows what a sales clerk does. From seeing Sales clerk I automatically assume you can do everything you just listed.

If it’s a straightfoward job don’t explain it. Your apprenticeship on the other hand I don’t know about so feel free to explain.

Don’t give any personality markers derived from a job though; save it for your interview. The job didn’t give you “Adaptive problem solving and simple mathematics” skills. You have those because you’re not retarded. The fact that you mention them specifically makes me wonder if you’re lacking in other basic survival skills that you didn’t mention: like ability to breathe.

Generally speaking people who put stuff like this have more than 1 page. I don’t see any need to go beyond that unless you’ve been working for longer than you or I have been alive.

Also I don’t think you need to point out that your references are excellent. Why are they so excellent?

Some people may disagree with this but I just find it condescending when people give resumes like this.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

What I wrote is valid. If you don’t care, your loss.[/quote]

Maybe for a law firm, but he is looking for part time work during college.

Your post shows a total lack of respect and I pity anyone unfortunate enough to land a job with you. However to be fair, I am unfamiliar with the ways of lawyers, maybe this is just how they operate.

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

What I wrote is valid. If you don’t care, your loss.[/quote]

Maybe for a law firm, but he is looking for part time work during college.

Your post shows a total lack of respect and I pity anyone unfortunate enough to land a job with you. However to be fair, I am unfamiliar with the ways of lawyers, maybe this is just how they operate.
[/quote]

Law is a competitive profession and he the conduct he outlined is barely a precursor to the conduct necessary for court appearances. Lateness, neglected appearance and (especially) inattention to detail are death to a lawyer.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

I know this is shocking, but “Jewbacca” is not my real name.

What I wrote is valid. If you don’t care, your loss.[/quote]

I know this is shocking, but I’m pretty sure he was just making a joke.

…a pretty funny one at that.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

What I wrote is valid. If you don’t care, your loss.[/quote]

Maybe for a law firm, but he is looking for part time work during college.

Your post shows a total lack of respect and I pity anyone unfortunate enough to land a job with you. However to be fair, I am unfamiliar with the ways of lawyers, maybe this is just how they operate.
[/quote]

Law is a competitive profession and he the conduct he outlined is barely a precursor to the conduct necessary for court appearances. Lateness, neglected appearance and (especially) inattention to detail are death to a lawyer.
[/quote]

I know law is a competitive field, but the OP isn’t going into law.

I guess what irked me the most was the last line, “Don’t ask about vacations or flex time or any crap besides whether it is OK to work through lunch and stay late.”

Fuck that, if I’m working for you I want to know what I’m getting myself into. But I’ve worked the mega hours and it’s not for me. If you don’t get the best deal for yourself going in, no one else will.

tmay, I would watch the value judgments in your job descriptions. For example, when you say: “Working successfully in a fast paced stressful environment that demanded efficient multi-tasking,” you assume your reader will agree that Sears is fast-paced and stressful. They may not, and worse, they may find the idea laughable. Same thing with “Extended periods of intensive focus when working on live circuits” and “Heavy lifting Ã??Ã?¢?? prolonged periods of intense exertion.” These all assume people will agree with your assessment that you’ve done something above and beyond what is usual. I’ve done ER crisis work. Sears, stressful? Please. (This is the reaction you want to be careful not to invite.)

Remove the superlatives. Let your reader decide that your references are excellent and that you must be made of steel to survive the pace at Sears, the intensity of circuit work, or the incredible exertion of landscaping. Just put what you actually did, and skip the self-congratulation. Adjectives are not your friend here.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
tmay, I would watch the value judgments in your job descriptions. For example, when you say: “Working successfully in a fast paced stressful environment that demanded efficient multi-tasking,” you assume your reader will agree that Sears is fast-paced and stressful.

They may not, and worse, they may find the idea laughable. Same thing with “Extended periods of intensive focus when working on live circuits” and “Heavy lifting Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? prolonged periods of intense exertion.”

These all assume people will agree with your assessment that you’ve done something above and beyond what is usual. I’ve done ER crisis work. Sears, stressful? Please. (This is the reaction you want to be careful not to invite.)

Remove the superlatives. Let your reader decide that your references are excellent and that you must be made of steel to survive the pace at Sears, the intensity of circuit work, or the incredible exertion of landscaping. Just put what you actually did, and skip the self-congratulation. Adjectives are not your friend here.[/quote]

Thank you for this, upon consideration I would have to agree.

What’s the protocol for IT? I’ve had a fair number of contracts over the past decade, and there’s no way it’s fitting on one page, unless I leave out all the job functions.

I thought in IT they usually do computer scanning, so you have to include all the acronyms they are looking for.

[quote]tmay11 wrote:
Travis

Objective �¢?? To retain a part-time position while attending university.

[/quote]

I’m pretty sure employers don’t need to call references for a sales associate position. Actually, I’ve never had anyone call a reference at all.

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

I guess what irked me the most was the last line, “Don’t ask about vacations or flex time or any crap besides whether it is OK to work through lunch and stay late.”

Fuck that, if I’m working for you I want to know what I’m getting myself into. But I’ve worked the mega hours and it’s not for me. If you don’t get the best deal for yourself going in, no one else will.[/quote]

Which is a fair enough comment and desire. But by asking the question, the employer (me) thinks “aha, this guy is a slacker.”

That may not be a fair belief, but that is my belief. If you must ask those questions, ask HR or whoever is not the hiring person.

Note, my points are “on how to get the job.” Not “how to get the job you want.”

Obama’s anti-business policies have gifted us with 10% unemployment, 17% if you count the people who just quit looking for a job.

The times when an employee could be selective about his or her employer are largely over. With eternal unemployment insurance, it’s too big a risk for the employer to hire a clunker employee and fire him or her.