Republicans Could Lock Up 2016 If...

thunderbolt23 · April 15, 2015, 3:04pm

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
One of the worst assaults was on the institution of thw family, through the fetishization of individualism and the rise of “if it feels good, do it” social libertinism. The order once established by the family and the social network that it was a part of had to be replaced with something. Enter the welfare state.
[/quote]

Why don’t you just call it freedom? Is your solution to have the government decide what is good? And control anyone who does something they deem as not feeling good?

Social libertarianism sounds like letting people make their own choices to me. Your going down the road that leads to the soda tax. Why let people make their own decisions? [/quote]

Great questions - can you repost to the American History Is Not American History? thread so as to keep this one on track?

H_factor · April 15, 2015, 3:11pm

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
One of the worst assaults was on the institution of thw family, through the fetishization of individualism and the rise of “if it feels good, do it” social libertinism. The order once established by the family and the social network that it was a part of had to be replaced with something. Enter the welfare state.
[/quote]

Why don’t you just call it freedom? Is your solution to have the government decide what is good? And control anyone who does something they deem as not feeling good?

Social libertarianism sounds like letting people make their own choices to me. Your going down the road that leads to the soda tax. Why let people make their own decisions? [/quote]

I tend to agree with social libertarianism in theory; however, there are instances (poor health choices for example) where individual choice effects the collective and in so doing effects other peoples ability to make individual choices.

As a more moderate conservative (best way to describe me I suppose) I think there’s a balance that needs to be struck between the two and it is lacking at the moment (favors the collective to much in some ways and favors the individual to much in some ways).

My .02 cents anyway.

Edit: To clarify, In general I’d say the balance is tipped towards the collective. [/quote]

I’m much more inclined to think we may need some government involvement in the fiscal sector than I am in the social sector. Who defines poor health choices anyways? If we listen to the government our high protein intake and eating lots of eggs could be classified as poor health choices in the past decades or so. You can’t have a free country if you don’t let individuals make their own decisions.

Edit: Moved to thread for T-bolt and yes this was getting this one off topic.

H_factor · April 15, 2015, 3:12pm

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Great speech by Rubio announcing his candidacy. He is gaining in the money raising department as well. All he has to do now is capture the nomination (not an easy task) then choose John Kasich of Ohio as his VP and we beat Hillary all day long.

Florida and Ohio the two magic states that hold the keys to a republican victory.[/quote]

If Rubio wins the nomination I think the Republicans win the whole thing. Not sure I can say that for every other current candidate.

ZEB · April 15, 2015, 8:36pm

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Great speech by Rubio announcing his candidacy. He is gaining in the money raising department as well. All he has to do now is capture the nomination (not an easy task) then choose John Kasich of Ohio as his VP and we beat Hillary all day long.

Florida and Ohio the two magic states that hold the keys to a republican victory.[/quote]

If Rubio wins the nomination I think the Republicans win the whole thing. Not sure I can say that for every other current candidate. [/quote]

I think there are other combinations that would give Hillary fits. But the Rubio/Kasich ticket is an absolute lock.

H_factor · April 16, 2015, 2:34am

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Great speech by Rubio announcing his candidacy. He is gaining in the money raising department as well. All he has to do now is capture the nomination (not an easy task) then choose John Kasich of Ohio as his VP and we beat Hillary all day long.

Florida and Ohio the two magic states that hold the keys to a republican victory.[/quote]

If Rubio wins the nomination I think the Republicans win the whole thing. Not sure I can say that for every other current candidate. [/quote]

I think there are other combinations that would give Hillary fits. But the Rubio/Kasich ticket is an absolute lock.
[/quote]

Politics is too dicey to have absolute locks. Hilary was an absolute lock for the nomination last time around after all.

I just think Rubio has the potential to reach that superstar type of status and I don’t think the left despises him like they do say a Ted Cruz or potentially Jeb Bush. If the left isn’t motivated (and they very well may not be) they have no chance. Cruz would motivate them. Bush would motivate them. Rubio? I’m not so sure.

Mufasa · April 16, 2015, 11:17am

I think a Bush/Rubio ticket could have the potential to make things interesting.

In terms of Rubio, there are three important test he has to “pass”:

The rigors and pressure of the campaign trail
The attacks and criticism from other GOP candidates.
The GOP debates.

Mufasa

anon50325502 · April 16, 2015, 12:24pm

I’m surprised you some of you guys think Rubio is a lock. That’s not the feeling I get from people around here.

thunderbolt23 · April 16, 2015, 2:10pm

I don’t think Rubio is a lock, but he brings a lot of advantages, not the least of which, as Zeb notes, is a good shot at the electoral votes from Florida.

He is charismatic, well-spoken, and willing to veer off orthodoxy.

Also, he is not a Bush, and Ron Paul is not his father.

anon50325502 · April 16, 2015, 2:20pm

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I don’t think Rubio is a lock, but he brings a lot of advantages, not the least of which, as Zeb notes, is a good shot at the electoral votes from Florida.

He is charismatic, well-spoken, and willing to veer off orthodoxy.

Also, he is not a Bush, and Ron Paul is not his father.[/quote]

A lot of the 25-35 crowd I talk to are not fans of Rubio FWIW.

anon50325502 · April 16, 2015, 2:21pm

^Not that that means anything really, I’m just throwing it out there.

H_factor · April 16, 2015, 2:22pm

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I don’t think Rubio is a lock, but he brings a lot of advantages, not the least of which, as Zeb notes, is a good shot at the electoral votes from Florida.

He is charismatic, well-spoken, and willing to veer off orthodoxy.

Also, he is not a Bush, and Ron Paul is not his father.[/quote]

I can see him getting hammered in the primaries for his previous stances on immigration. I think this is the one thing that has the potential to derail him and you can bet his opponents will be making that move.

ZEB · April 16, 2015, 3:52pm

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Great speech by Rubio announcing his candidacy. He is gaining in the money raising department as well. All he has to do now is capture the nomination (not an easy task) then choose John Kasich of Ohio as his VP and we beat Hillary all day long.

Florida and Ohio the two magic states that hold the keys to a republican victory.[/quote]

If Rubio wins the nomination I think the Republicans win the whole thing. Not sure I can say that for every other current candidate. [/quote]

I think there are other combinations that would give Hillary fits. But the Rubio/Kasich ticket is an absolute lock.
[/quote]

Politics is too dicey to have absolute locks. Hilary was an absolute lock for the nomination last time around after all.

I just think Rubio has the potential to reach that superstar type of status and I don’t think the left despises him like they do say a Ted Cruz or potentially Jeb Bush. If the left isn’t motivated (and they very well may not be) they have no chance. Cruz would motivate them. Bush would motivate them. Rubio? I’m not so sure. [/quote]

Sorry for being vague. To be more precise I meant an “electoral lock”. Ohio represents 18 electoral votes and Florida 29. Combined they total 47 electoral votes. And that is the difference between winning and losing the Presidential race for the republicans.

Is it an absolute lock that the republicans would win Florida and Ohio with a sitting Governor from Ohio as VP and a sitting Senator from Florida as the Presidential nominee? No, but I would certainly lay some serious odds that those states would vote republican.

ZEB · April 16, 2015, 3:54pm

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I think a Bush/Rubio ticket could have the potential to make things interesting.

In terms of Rubio, there are three important test he has to “pass”:

The rigors and pressure of the campaign trail
The attacks and criticism from other GOP candidates.
The GOP debates.

Mufasa[/quote]

That would be a waste putting two candidates who have or currently represent Florida on the same ticket.

In short, we don’t need Jeb Bush if we have Marco Rubio. Rubio is younger more charismatic, has a great story to tell regarding his climb to the top. He’s Hispanic, and as I’ve been saying represents Florida’s 29 electoral votes something the republicans must have to win the White House.

ZEB · April 16, 2015, 3:59pm

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I don’t think Rubio is a lock, but he brings a lot of advantages, not the least of which, as Zeb notes, is a good shot at the electoral votes from Florida.

He is charismatic, well-spoken, and willing to veer off orthodoxy.

Also, he is not a Bush, and Ron Paul is not his father.[/quote]

A lot of the 25-35 crowd I talk to are not fans of Rubio FWIW. [/quote]

Not right now 19 months away from the Presidential election. In fact, not many are even paying attention this early. But when they view Hillary Clinton standing next to him on a stage debating the 25-35 crowd will quickly become Rubio voters.

The contrast in age, enthusiasm and most importantly charisma will be so overpowering in Rubio’s favor that he will become the favorite of all but the die hard dems who would vote for Elmer Fudd if he were a democrat.

MaximusB · April 16, 2015, 4:00pm

Rubio has already flip flopped on immigration, for which he will get roasted for it.

ZEB · April 16, 2015, 4:00pm

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I don’t think Rubio is a lock, but he brings a lot of advantages, not the least of which, as Zeb notes, is a good shot at the electoral votes from Florida.

He is charismatic, well-spoken, and willing to veer off orthodoxy.

Also, he is not a Bush, and Ron Paul is not his father.[/quote]

I can see him getting hammered in the primaries for his previous stances on immigration. I think this is the one thing that has the potential to derail him and you can bet his opponents will be making that move. [/quote]

Lots of things can happen on the way to the general election. That’s why I am more concerned with Rubio actually capturing the nomination than winning the general election.

H_factor · April 16, 2015, 4:53pm

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I don’t think Rubio is a lock, but he brings a lot of advantages, not the least of which, as Zeb notes, is a good shot at the electoral votes from Florida.

He is charismatic, well-spoken, and willing to veer off orthodoxy.

Also, he is not a Bush, and Ron Paul is not his father.[/quote]

I can see him getting hammered in the primaries for his previous stances on immigration. I think this is the one thing that has the potential to derail him and you can bet his opponents will be making that move. [/quote]

Lots of things can happen on the way to the general election. That’s why I am more concerned with Rubio actually capturing the nomination than winning the general election.
[/quote]

He will have his work cut out for him but you could say the same thing about every other candidate. Whoever comes out for the Republicans will have went through the ringer to say the least. Right now we have no favorites, no front runner, and plenty of people with credentials.

Essentially the exact opposite for the Republicans in 2012 when they ran the JV squad against Mitt.

ZEB · April 16, 2015, 8:40pm

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I don’t think Rubio is a lock, but he brings a lot of advantages, not the least of which, as Zeb notes, is a good shot at the electoral votes from Florida.

He is charismatic, well-spoken, and willing to veer off orthodoxy.

Also, he is not a Bush, and Ron Paul is not his father.[/quote]

I can see him getting hammered in the primaries for his previous stances on immigration. I think this is the one thing that has the potential to derail him and you can bet his opponents will be making that move. [/quote]

Lots of things can happen on the way to the general election. That’s why I am more concerned with Rubio actually capturing the nomination than winning the general election.
[/quote]

He will have his work cut out for him but you could say the same thing about every other candidate. Whoever comes out for the Republicans will have went through the ringer to say the least. Right now we have no favorites, no front runner, and plenty of people with credentials.

Essentially the exact opposite for the Republicans in 2012 when they ran the JV squad against Mitt. [/quote]

In fact, the exact opposite of what is going on in the democratic party. Hillary is expecting a coronation. Other than two unknowns who are throwing their hat in the ring hoping to shake things up.

By the way if it is an easy primary season for Hillary she will not be ready for whomever gets through the republican primary process. As that person will be sharp and quite ready. As they say steel sharpens steel

H_factor · April 16, 2015, 10:24pm