So the human organism is switched out for a human-being organism at some point?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
Republicans - They support the death penalty, but not abortion.
Democrats - They support abortion, but not the death penalty.
Either vote ends up killing someone. So if you’re a true Christian Conservative, you shouldn’t vote for either.[/quote]
The distinction you failed to make above is that one party is innocent and one is guilty. How could you make a blunder like that?
[edit] You would have to try and desperately make the case that the lives of Jeffrey Dahmer and the baby in the womb in the prenatal ward in the Springfield, IL hospital right this minute have equal value and are worthy of no more or less consideration when it comes to acts they have and/or haven’t committed in their lives.[/quote]
Doesn’t matter: “Thou shalt not kill”
It’s either all or nothing, right?
[/quote]
Read “Thou shalt not kill” in context. It means “Thou shalt not murder.”
It does matter.
Next.[/quote]
John 8:7 - “May he who is without sin cast the first stone”[/quote]
Matthew 27:5 “And Judas went and hanged himself.”
Luke 10:37 “Go, and do thou likewise.”
See…I too can quote Scripture out of context.[quote]
From my understanding, there are Christians who support the death penalty and those who do not (following above verse).[/quote]
Yes. So?[quote]
However, isn’t murder murder?[/quote]
Yep.
But the death penalty isn’t murder. Murder involves the death of an innocent. The death penalty involves the death of the guilty. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
[/quote]
How did I take the quote out of context? They wanted to stone that person to death, didn’t they? Isn’t this the EXACT SAME THING?
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Being human is a matter of genes. Being alive is nothing but a self sustaining chemical reaction with a couple of qualifiers (undergo metabolism, maintain homeostasis, possess a capacity to grow). Both of these requirements are fulfilled exactly at conception.
We become living human beings at that exact instinct. The only argument that can be made is weather or not that human life has value or not and weather or not a woman has the authority to determine that.[/quote]
You’re conflating a human-being with homo-sapien. Homo-sapiens are the only human-beings we know of. But they only become human-beings when they become conscious i.e., human.
We will go over this again: human is an adjective. A human-being would be any being with self-consciousness, with “mind”. [/quote]
Good grief these arguments are dumb.
Can I stab a brain dead guy on life support?
What if a child isn’t intelligent enough to be self aware?
Some apes, dolphins, and even elephants are self aware. They’re human-beings?
The 2 traits I mentioned are the only requirements for the intrinsic value of life. All other requirements are more full of holes than swiss cheese.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]BackInAction wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I am the same individual organism as the one which was once an embryo. There’s no getting around it. Killing an embryo is killing a human being. Own it and defend it for what is, the taking of a human life.[/quote]
I agree, this is why I’m pro-death penalty & pro-choice.[/quote]
Oh the irony.[/quote]
You’re the ironic one. I think I’m pretty clear cut.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
So the human organism is switched for a human-being organism at some point?[/quote]
???
I assume you’re talking to me.
An organism becomes human when it gains “mind”. Mind is the product of a highly-developed and sophisticated brain. So sophisticated in fact, only one species in the known universe has one.
An undeveloped homo-sapien (an early stage fetus), has no brain, therefore no mind, therefore is not human.
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
An organism becomes human when it gains “mind”. Mind is the product of a highly-developed and sophisticated brain. So sophisticated in fact, only one species in the known universe has one.
[/quote]
This is not true.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
What if you didn’t “err enough?”
BTW, you wanna compare the ending of a life with a speeding ticket, huh?
Wow.[/quote]
Sure, I’m not a child. The ending of life is a natural part of existence. I eat meat. I grow crops. Life and death.
Again, it’s not human life we’re talking about. It’s a clutter of cells.
We’d make sure we’d err enough. That’s easy. If there’s no brain, there’s no consciousness and no mind.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
An organism becomes human when it gains “mind”. Mind is the product of a highly-developed and sophisticated brain. So sophisticated in fact, only one species in the known universe has one.
[/quote]
This is not true.[/quote]
Please share.
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
So the human organism is switched for a human-being organism at some point?[/quote]
???
I assume you’re talking to me.
An organism becomes human when it gains “mind”. Mind is the product of a highly-developed and sophisticated brain. So sophisticated in fact, only one species in the known universe has one.
An undeveloped homo-sapien (an early stage fetus), has no brain, therefore no mind, therefore is not human.[/quote]
You talk as if one individual organism is spontaneously becoming another. You are the same individual organism that was once called an embryo. The same organism. There is no getting around it.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
So the two year old fell out of his crib and suffered a serious spinal injury. NOWWWWWWWWWWW it’s OK to execute him, huh?[/quote]
That would be an injured nervous system, not a lack of one.
You’re cute.
Do you admit that your stance on this issue is based on your belief that humanness is not biologically based in the brain, but the result of something extra-material, like a soul?
Or do you really think you have a sound argument for your side based on science, in the material world?
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Again, it’s not human life we’re talking about. It’s a clutter of cells.
[/quote]
Human life is always a collection of cells…
So a collection of cells only become human when it develops a certain collection of cells…
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
So the human organism is switched for a human-being organism at some point?[/quote]
???
I assume you’re talking to me.
An organism becomes human when it gains “mind”. Mind is the product of a highly-developed and sophisticated brain. So sophisticated in fact, only one species in the known universe has one.
An undeveloped homo-sapien (an early stage fetus), has no brain, therefore no mind, therefore is not human.[/quote]
You talk as if one individual organism is spontaneously becoming another. You are the same individual organism that was once called an embryo. The same organism. There is no getting around it.[/quote]
Mmmm no.
The organism stays the same. Again, for the umpteenth time. Human is an adjective. Just as you wouldn’t call a two year old boy a man (because he’s not), you wouldn’t call a collection of cells human (because it’s not).
You wouldn’t call a caterpillar a butterfly, it’s not, despite the fact that at one point all butterfly were caterpillars: they were the same organism. The two have distinctly different qualities: they are different things.