Renaming PWI

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]kamui wrote:
lets see if i fit the stereotype

“1. They are Pompus”

Yes, I am.

“2. Mostly Leftist”

I’m French. Your right doesn’t even exist here.

“3. They think they are enlightened more than others”

I’m not the most enlightened man who ever walked on Earth. But i’m definitely more enlightened than many others.

“4. They can not be fired if they have tenure”

I can be fired if I misbehave. but not necessarily if my students fail.

“5. Most have never had a real job”

I have been a pizza cook, a street musician, a webmaster and a software developer, among other things.

“6. Most have never run a business”

I have never run a business, but i have run a non-profit organization

“7. Most feel capitalism is evil and so is a profit”

â??Both capitalism and Marxism promised to point out the path for the creation of just structures, and they declared that these, once established, would function by themselves and this ideological promise has proven false.â??
Benedict XVI[/quote]

Hence I said most, and good introspection there!

I got my BS in Business Admin in the 90’s. Most of those people in THAT discipline (finance, Match, Marketing) were not leftist, however most all the others like language, history, arts, sociology, etc. were mostly life long academia people, with the characteristics I noted…so naturally I would assume any kid arguing for communism or socialism have professors in those areas.

I was a raving eco-communist in my late teens and early 20’s because of the influences in school. It only took having a family, paying taxes, owning property, and raising kids did I steer toward real individual liberty conservatism and left the slant toward a Liberal, one world “collectivism” anti-faith concept school drills into you.

162

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

You sound like someone who doesn’t have a college degree.[/quote]

Why is that? Is that some sort of poke at me because you don’t feel the same way?[/quote]

No. It was a low blow, sorry. I attended Pepperdine University for 3 years on a baseball scholarship then transferred to Chico State when I blew my arm out, with a semester at San Jose State between the two. I also took a distance learning class at Stanford. From my own personal experiences, nothing on your list holds water except for the tenure thing.

Beyond that, what does running a business have to do with anything? Are you going to tell me that everyone who has ever run a business belongs at the top of some warped hierarchical order? What is a “real job”? What evidence do you have to support your claim that most think capitalism is evil? Have you heard ANY professor repeatedly (or even just once) state without ambiguity that capitalism is evil? Is it possible that you are simply projecting your bias onto an entire group of people?

I suspect that you have some pre-conceived notions about professors, and that you interpret things about them to fit this pre-conceived notion, rather than let an honest appraisal of the situation determine your opinion of professors. Like I said before, I have attended three different colleges, I have two degrees (poly sci and history) and I am currently back in school to further my education beyond even that. So I have been exposed to a very wide, varied group of professors at a CSU, a UC and a private university. Never have I ever heard anything from any of my professors that would lend even the remotest amount of creedence to your claims, except for one, and he was fired. This would seem to invalidate all of your claims, except for #4.

163

Oh yeah, and most of my professors had “real” jobs as well. I had two professors who ran their own consulting firms and taught on the side. That’s right, they ran their own business. I’ve had a professor who was the city manager of Chico for 25 years, I’ve had a professor who owned his landscaping company, I’ve had a professor who is a practicing attorney, I’ve had a professor who is a NY Times best-selling author and who taught English in China in the 1980’s until he was kicked out when his right-centrist views became apparent to the govt there. He is now a regular contributor to Vietnam Magazine. I could go on and on and on.

164

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

so naturally I would assume any kid arguing for communism or socialism have professors in those areas.

[/quote]

I guess I`m a socialist kid in your eyes. I did join the radical leftwing long before I entered university and there where not my teachers who talked me in to it. I argued alot with them about politics and they did not agree with me. What my proffersor to day stand on politics I dont know, dont know them on a personal level. My proffersor in political philosopy is leftwing and he admits it, but he also says its important to look at each and every political philosopy with an objectiv eye and treat both adam smith, marx, burke etc with respect. for the record this particular proffesor is not pompeus btw.

165

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
[
I cant sit on my professors lap right now, but I`ll ask him tomorrow.
[/quote]

Uhhh…really?[/quote]

heard about sarcasm before my friend? :slight_smile:

btw: do you have a problem with proffesors rockscar? [/quote]

I sure do.

  1. They are Pompus
  2. Mostly Leftist
  3. They think they are enlightened more than others
  4. They can not be fired if they have tenure
  5. Most have never had a real job
  6. Most have never run a business
  7. Most feel capitalism is evil and so is a profit

Bottom line, many of them just hide from real life.

The characteristics are very similar to someone running the US now.
[/quote]

You sound like someone who doesn’t have a college degree.[/quote]

Why? because he disagrees with you. Rockscar in my opinion sounds alot more educated than you.

166

[quote]SUPER-T wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
[
I cant sit on my professors lap right now, but I`ll ask him tomorrow.
[/quote]

Uhhh…really?[/quote]

heard about sarcasm before my friend? :slight_smile:

btw: do you have a problem with proffesors rockscar? [/quote]

I sure do.

  1. They are Pompus
  2. Mostly Leftist
  3. They think they are enlightened more than others
  4. They can not be fired if they have tenure
  5. Most have never had a real job
  6. Most have never run a business
  7. Most feel capitalism is evil and so is a profit

Bottom line, many of them just hide from real life.

The characteristics are very similar to someone running the US now.
[/quote]

You sound like someone who doesn’t have a college degree.[/quote]

Why? because he disagrees with you. Rockscar in my opinion sounds alot more educated than you.
[/quote]

Ok that’s enough…everyone has different experiences, and we both shared ours with the group, and he identified with the regression. No harm done.

167

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

so naturally I would assume any kid arguing for communism or socialism have professors in those areas.

[/quote]

I guess I`m a socialist kid in your eyes. I did join the radical leftwing long before I entered university and there where not my teachers who talked me in to it. I argued alot with them about politics and they did not agree with me. What my proffersor to day stand on politics I dont know, dont know them on a personal level. My proffersor in political philosopy is leftwing and he admits it, but he also says its important to look at each and every political philosopy with an objectiv eye and treat both adam smith, marx, burke etc with respect. for the record this particular proffesor is not pompeus btw.[/quote]

Stereotypes…some truthful others not so much…

Like I said, I understand the college influence, and we tend to lean left and socialist while we are in our younger years because it makes the most sense to us.

168

[quote]SUPER-T wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
[
I cant sit on my professors lap right now, but I`ll ask him tomorrow.
[/quote]

Uhhh…really?[/quote]

heard about sarcasm before my friend? :slight_smile:

btw: do you have a problem with proffesors rockscar? [/quote]

I sure do.

  1. They are Pompus
  2. Mostly Leftist
  3. They think they are enlightened more than others
  4. They can not be fired if they have tenure
  5. Most have never had a real job
  6. Most have never run a business
  7. Most feel capitalism is evil and so is a profit

Bottom line, many of them just hide from real life.

The characteristics are very similar to someone running the US now.
[/quote]

You sound like someone who doesn’t have a college degree.[/quote]

Why? because he disagrees with you. Rockscar in my opinion sounds alot more educated than you.
[/quote]

You should at least use proper punctuation when you make a statement like that.

169

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

so naturally I would assume any kid arguing for communism or socialism have professors in those areas.

[/quote]

I guess I`m a socialist kid in your eyes. I did join the radical leftwing long before I entered university and there where not my teachers who talked me in to it. I argued alot with them about politics and they did not agree with me. What my proffersor to day stand on politics I dont know, dont know them on a personal level. My proffersor in political philosopy is leftwing and he admits it, but he also says its important to look at each and every political philosopy with an objectiv eye and treat both adam smith, marx, burke etc with respect. for the record this particular proffesor is not pompeus btw.[/quote]

Stereotypes…some truthful others not so much…

Like I said, I understand the college influence, and we tend to lean left and socialist while we are in our younger years because it makes the most sense to us.
[/quote]

I understand what you meen, but I would rather say extreme not radical. so young people are more extreme than older people for many reasons. If you had met me for let say 5 years ago you would have met a much more hardcore socialist than I`m today. This is because I have been going to the university for over two years and have learned to be more objectiv and are at the moment obtaining a more academic attitud instead of a more subjectiv political attitud. as an example: before I saw socialism as the gospel, I saw it as the only truth. Today I know its only theorys about how society works and how it should be, but socialism still makes more sense than the liberalist, conservatist and fascist perceptions of society. As you see this is a more moderat attitud towards this subject than the religious attitud I had before. I see now that this has become a rant and I will stop now.

170

I think a lot of this whole anti-university, anti-professor sentiment comes down to this: according to a Pew Research Center survey (and other surveys from other organizations as well), liberals are the most affluent and educated group of people based on political ideology self-identification. Liberals are the most educated group by far, with 49% being college graduates and another 23% having even more education than that.

So how does a hard-line conservative reconcile with themselves the fact that their ideological opposite appears to be much more educated? Well, the universities where they get their degrees must be teaching this liberalism to them, right? Rather than becoming more educated and steering themselves to the left-hand lane on the road, they must have been indoctrinated, brain-washed into thinking liberalism is the way to go.

Now, clearly this isn’t the case. I would never argue that being a liberal is a product of being smarter or more educated than most people, but I would also not argue that education produces a liberal mindset due to the influence of nefarious professors with ulterior motives. I consider myself to be pretty smart and highly educated, but I have never self-identified as a liberal. If the second paragraph above were really true, then I must have strayed somewhere along the line, as RockScar must have also.

171

http://people-press.org/report/?pageid=945

here’s the link to the survey. Notice that “enterprisers”, who are considered to be anything but liberal in this poll, have almost the same amount of education and wealth that liberals do. So did the liberals simply drink the Kool-Aid and enterprisers successfully resisted? No. That is WAY too simplistic a way to put things. So why is it that two very different groups have arrived at relatively the same position in life? Part of it may stem from the fact that the enterprisers group is more than 70% male, and males still tend to make more money than women.

172

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

so naturally I would assume any kid arguing for communism or socialism have professors in those areas.

[/quote]

I guess I`m a socialist kid in your eyes. I did join the radical leftwing long before I entered university and there where not my teachers who talked me in to it. I argued alot with them about politics and they did not agree with me. What my proffersor to day stand on politics I dont know, dont know them on a personal level. My proffersor in political philosopy is leftwing and he admits it, but he also says its important to look at each and every political philosopy with an objectiv eye and treat both adam smith, marx, burke etc with respect. for the record this particular proffesor is not pompeus btw.[/quote]

Stereotypes…some truthful others not so much…

Like I said, I understand the college influence, and we tend to lean left and socialist while we are in our younger years because it makes the most sense to us.
[/quote]

I understand what you meen, but I would rather say extreme not radical. so young people are more extreme than older people for many reasons. If you had met me for let say 5 years ago you would have met a much more hardcore socialist than I`m today. This is because I have been going to the university for over two years and have learned to be more objectiv and are at the moment obtaining a more academic attitud instead of a more subjectiv political attitud. as an example: before I saw socialism as the gospel, I saw it as the only truth. Today I know its only theorys about how society works and how it should be, but socialism still makes more sense than the liberalist, conservatist and fascist perceptions of society. As you see this is a more moderat attitud towards this subject than the religious attitud I had before. I see now that this has become a rant and I will stop now.[/quote]

People’s radicalism or extremism on political matters when they are younger is largely a reflection of their need to be different than their parents. Along with that, youths tend to overdo everything compared to when they are older. Also, I remember reading an article a few months ago in the NY Times that showed that according to recent polls conducted over the last couple years, more and more teenagers are labeling themselves as conservatives than ever before. So it may be a bit dubious to assume that we start out wildly liberal when we’re teenagers and then slowly become more and more conservative or moderate as we age.

173

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

so naturally I would assume any kid arguing for communism or socialism have professors in those areas.

[/quote]

I guess I`m a socialist kid in your eyes. I did join the radical leftwing long before I entered university and there where not my teachers who talked me in to it. I argued alot with them about politics and they did not agree with me. What my proffersor to day stand on politics I dont know, dont know them on a personal level. My proffersor in political philosopy is leftwing and he admits it, but he also says its important to look at each and every political philosopy with an objectiv eye and treat both adam smith, marx, burke etc with respect. for the record this particular proffesor is not pompeus btw.[/quote]

Stereotypes…some truthful others not so much…

Like I said, I understand the college influence, and we tend to lean left and socialist while we are in our younger years because it makes the most sense to us.
[/quote]

I understand what you meen, but I would rather say extreme not radical. so young people are more extreme than older people for many reasons. If you had met me for let say 5 years ago you would have met a much more hardcore socialist than I`m today. This is because I have been going to the university for over two years and have learned to be more objectiv and are at the moment obtaining a more academic attitud instead of a more subjectiv political attitud. as an example: before I saw socialism as the gospel, I saw it as the only truth. Today I know its only theorys about how society works and how it should be, but socialism still makes more sense than the liberalist, conservatist and fascist perceptions of society. As you see this is a more moderat attitud towards this subject than the religious attitud I had before. I see now that this has become a rant and I will stop now.[/quote]

People’s radicalism or extremism on political matters when they are younger is largely a reflection of their need to be different than their parents. Along with that, youths tend to overdo everything compared to when they are older. Also, I remember reading an article a few months ago in the NY Times that showed that according to recent polls conducted over the last couple years, more and more teenagers are labeling themselves as conservatives than ever before. So it may be a bit dubious to assume that we start out wildly liberal when we’re teenagers and then slowly become more and more conservative or moderate as we age.[/quote]

the point you touched on in the beggining of your post “youth tend to overdo everything compared to when they are older” I agree with and its not that far away from what rockscar is saying. But taking it far or being extreme is not the same as being liberal or socialist. And socialliberalism( what americans call liberalism ) is by nature a moderat ideology, is the compromise beetwen free-marked-liberalism( libertarianism in america ) and socialism. My point is that even do that many young people are calling themself conservativs, they are probably more extrem than theire older counterparts.

174

[quote]florelius wrote:

but socialism still makes more sense than the liberalist, conservatist and fascist perceptions of society. [/quote]

Thanks for your response. Just as I say Capitalism is the answer, you have learned differently based on your social, economic and educational background.

I could not begin to think you understand it as much as you can’t believe I understand socialism.

175

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

but socialism still makes more sense than the liberalist, conservatist and fascist perceptions of society. [/quote]

Thanks for your response. Just as I say Capitalism is the answer, you have learned differently based on your social, economic and educational background.

I could not begin to think you understand it as much as you can’t believe I understand socialism.

[/quote]

our background do probably have an inffect on us in some way.

your second point: what do you meen, could you explain more?

176

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

but socialism still makes more sense than the liberalist, conservatist and fascist perceptions of society. [/quote]

Thanks for your response. Just as I say Capitalism is the answer, you have learned differently based on your social, economic and educational background.

I could not begin to think you understand it as much as you can’t believe I understand socialism.

[/quote]

our background do probably have an inffect on us in some way.

your second point: what do you meen, could you explain more?[/quote]

I grew up under Capitalism…you Socialism. Our views reflect our upbringing and education. I don’t really understand you, you don’t really understand me.

177

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

but socialism still makes more sense than the liberalist, conservatist and fascist perceptions of society. [/quote]

Thanks for your response. Just as I say Capitalism is the answer, you have learned differently based on your social, economic and educational background.

I could not begin to think you understand it as much as you can’t believe I understand socialism.

[/quote]

our background do probably have an inffect on us in some way.

your second point: what do you meen, could you explain more?[/quote]

I grew up under Capitalism…you Socialism. Our views reflect our upbringing and education. I don’t really understand you, you don’t really understand me.
[/quote]

sorry dude I didnt grow up under socialism I grew up in a capitalist country, but yes socialist ideas are more accepted in my country than yours. So in some sence you are right, we have probably problems understanding eachother. Still it is possible for us to understand eachother if we try.

178

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

but socialism still makes more sense than the liberalist, conservatist and fascist perceptions of society. [/quote]

Thanks for your response. Just as I say Capitalism is the answer, you have learned differently based on your social, economic and educational background.

I could not begin to think you understand it as much as you can’t believe I understand socialism.

[/quote]

our background do probably have an inffect on us in some way.

your second point: what do you meen, could you explain more?[/quote]

I grew up under Capitalism…you Socialism. Our views reflect our upbringing and education. I don’t really understand you, you don’t really understand me.
[/quote]

sorry dude I didnt grow up under socialism I grew up in a capitalist country, but yes socialist ideas are more accepted in my country than yours. So in some sence you are right, we have probably problems understanding eachother. Still it is possible for us to understand eachother if we try.[/quote]

I was under the impression that you were a capitalist country with a move to socialism as a cornerstone the last 50 years???

179

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

but socialism still makes more sense than the liberalist, conservatist and fascist perceptions of society. [/quote]

Thanks for your response. Just as I say Capitalism is the answer, you have learned differently based on your social, economic and educational background.

I could not begin to think you understand it as much as you can’t believe I understand socialism.

[/quote]

our background do probably have an inffect on us in some way.

your second point: what do you meen, could you explain more?[/quote]

I grew up under Capitalism…you Socialism. Our views reflect our upbringing and education. I don’t really understand you, you don’t really understand me.
[/quote]

sorry dude I didnt grow up under socialism I grew up in a capitalist country, but yes socialist ideas are more accepted in my country than yours. So in some sence you are right, we have probably problems understanding eachother. Still it is possible for us to understand eachother if we try.[/quote]

I was under the impression that you were a capitalist country with a move to socialism as a cornerstone the last 50 years???[/quote]

well compared to usa we have a more developed welfare state and the state have a ownership over some industry, we have a stocmarket, a small group of privat owners over industry an other market entitys is our upperclass. Our system is often and probably best defines as a democracy with a mixed economy or in other words: norway is a liberal country.