Renaming PWI

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]rageradios wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
America is the LEAST Imperial superpower in the history of the world.
[/quote]

This is what could be referred to as completely false.
The American system of economics is what could readily be described as mercantilism much more than capitalism. We use our military might to gain favorable trade conditions with other countries.[/quote]

Yeah, 'cause there is so much trade in Afganistan. You need to corner the market in . . . dirt and rocks.

And Iraq. I love how American might was used to secure a favorable oil deal for . . . China.

And when you invaded Japan, and even nuked them, I love how you dumped your goods there, squashed the native industry, and kept them as a satelite power, beholden to the USA.

Sorry, if the USA was “mercantilist,” it’s the most piss-poor mecantilist in the history of the world.

Like the other anti-American poster (Although I guess you are a self-loathing American), no one (but perhaps you) fall for this crap. It’s pseudo-intellectual garbage designed to hide the fact you don’t like America behind a cloud of weasel.[/quote]

First of all, Afghanistan has quite a lot to offer.

Then, the oil price went up after the invasion of Iraq which was quite profitable for a lot of American companies. You do not need to control supply when you already produce some of it and can make your product scarcer than it ought to be.

Also, Japan is an American satellite and America has repeteadly thrown her weight around to force other nations to open theior markets to American product and to introduce libertarian reforms.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but it is also a fact that America repeatedly refused to take the medicine she so readily made other people swallow, i.e. reduce trade barriers, balance her budget and so further and so on.

To sum it up, the claim that the US is mercantilist and corporatist is not entirely unfounded, the fact that they mostly suck at it does not change that.

82

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
I dont support people who send people over sea to kill others.
[/quote]

You mean, like the Taliban/Al-quadi flying planes into buildings in NYC? Or Iran sending proxies to Gaza to shell elementary schools in Israel? Or Iraq sending assasins to try to kill George Bush, the Elder?

Your one-sided non-interventionists crap is a transparent lie to everyone but youself.

The real truth is you (and most Europeans) hate America, hate Americans, look down on them, and yet are jealous of them and their success, and so revel in the USA getting put in its place.[/quote]

So if we don’t support America in every single policy it enacts, we support the Taliban.

Good to know. All hail Osama!

83

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
usa and norway are capitalist countrys. they have privat property, they have an marked economy, theire upperclass are the burgeouis and the incentiv for production are capital proffit. whats socialist about that?
[/quote]

Look, I went to the Soviet Union during the height of the cold war. The upperclass there was permanant, the Party Machine. There is always an “upperclass” and a “lowerclass.”

The difference between communism and capitalism is that, in capitalism, you can rise up out of the lower class.

In communism (or socialism), your government oligarchs make that impossible and keep the money and luxuries for themselves, while pandering to idiots like you who think its “fair” and “just” and other bullshit.

When any government gets beyond the very most basic stuff, it becomes like the mafia, sucking the population dry. It could be a king, a facists, a marxists, or a Brussels-based sex ring, its all the same eventually. It’s a shit sandwich, and you get the shit that drops on the floor.

All the government “retirement” programs, welfare programs — no matter how noble and well-intentioned to begin with — ultimately become a scam to fuck you and steal your time, treasure, and talent.

You seem like a nicely-intentioned guy. Socialism SOUNDS wonderful.

Kum-ba-fucking-ya, let’s get along.

Well, it’s a lie.

It’s a mechanism to take your shit, keep you docile and stupid, and make you a peasant, a serf.[/quote]

I study history jewbacca, so I know the difference between the capitalist classsystem and the feudal system. the sovjet failed creating a socialist system. instead they got a statist aristocracy.

In capitalism you have a more flexible classsystem, but most times its people from the upper and middle class that falls down in the big workingclass, not the other way.

btw. the sovjet experiment where a big fail from the getgo. they took a ideology that where made from an analysis of the capitalist and democratic west, and tried out in the feudal and autocratic russia. It where doomed to fail.

have a nice day.

84

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
I dont support people who send people over sea to kill others.
[/quote]

You mean, like the Taliban/Al-quadi flying planes into buildings in NYC? Or Iran sending proxies to Gaza to shell elementary schools in Israel? Or Iraq sending assasins to try to kill George Bush, the Elder?

Your one-sided non-interventionists crap is a transparent lie to everyone but youself.

The real truth is you (and most Europeans) hate America, hate Americans, look down on them, and yet are jealous of them and their success, and so revel in the USA getting put in its place.[/quote]

So if we don’t support America in every single policy it enacts, we support the Taliban.

Good to know. All hail Osama!
[/quote]

No, what he said was that flore singled out the american side of the conflict for scrutiny omitting the other side and noted that flore should be as opposed to terrorists and their actions.

85

btw Jewbacca I do agree entirely about what you said about the late soviet union - there is always a difference between rich and poor.

Obama is not a socialist though. That’s just funny

86

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
I dont support people who send people over sea to kill others.
[/quote]

You mean, like the Taliban/Al-quadi flying planes into buildings in NYC? Or Iran sending proxies to Gaza to shell elementary schools in Israel? Or Iraq sending assasins to try to kill George Bush, the Elder?

Your one-sided non-interventionists crap is a transparent lie to everyone but youself.

The real truth is you (and most Europeans) hate America, hate Americans, look down on them, and yet are jealous of them and their success, and so revel in the USA getting put in its place.[/quote]

So if we don’t support America in every single policy it enacts, we support the Taliban.

Good to know. All hail Osama!
[/quote]

No, what he said was that flore singled out the american side of the conflict for scrutiny omitting the other side and noted that flore should be as opposed to terrorists and their actions.[/quote]

Ah. Consider that retracted then. Can hardly disagree with that. can we single them both out?

87

“First of all, Afghanistan has quite a lot to offer.”

You’re right. 9/11 was a conspiracy. GW Bush personally flew planes into the World Trade Center, so the US could invade Afaganistan and corner the heroin market.

“Then, the oil price went up after the invasion of Iraq which was quite profitable for a lot of American companies. You do not need to control supply when you already produce some of it and can make your product scarcer than it ought to be.”

Rather inefficient. The Big 5 US oil companies have 5% of the oil production in the world. Also, they don’t own the oil, the lease it. When the price goes up, they have to pay more for it (royalty) and pay more for production and taxe. Their PRE-PRODUCTION COST cut is about 25% of the price. After cost, it’s about 8%.

“Also, Japan is an American satellite”

Yeah, I love how we completely shut down their domestic car production.

“Not necessarily a bad thing, but it is also a fact that America repeatedly refused to take the medicine she so readily made other people swallow, i.e. reduce trade barriers, balance her budget and so further and so on.”

There are actually very few trade barriers in the USA with countries that don’t have barriers witht he USA. But, more to the point, that has nothing to do with anything being discussed.

“To sum it up, the claim that the US is mercantilist and corporatist is not entirely unfounded.”

You lost me at “corporatist.” A corporation is a bunch of people who decided to pool their money to do something together. Yeah, that’s terrible.

88

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
I dont support people who send people over sea to kill others.
[/quote]

You mean, like the Taliban/Al-quadi flying planes into buildings in NYC? Or Iran sending proxies to Gaza to shell elementary schools in Israel? Or Iraq sending assasins to try to kill George Bush, the Elder?

Your one-sided non-interventionists crap is a transparent lie to everyone but youself.

The real truth is you (and most Europeans) hate America, hate Americans, look down on them, and yet are jealous of them and their success, and so revel in the USA getting put in its place.[/quote]

So if we don’t support America in every single policy it enacts, we support the Taliban.

Good to know. All hail Osama!
[/quote]

Quoted to show a rather silly attempt at creating a strawman.

I love how all those Scots and Brits are having a temper tantrum about paying for college.

It’s a perfect example of the welfare state gone amuck, and how pathetic and useless people become under a socialist regime.

89

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]rageradios wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
America is the LEAST Imperial superpower in the history of the world.
[/quote]

This is what could be referred to as completely false.
The American system of economics is what could readily be described as mercantilism much more than capitalism. We use our military might to gain favorable trade conditions with other countries.[/quote]

Yeah, 'cause there is so much trade in Afganistan. You need to corner the market in . . . dirt and rocks.

And Iraq. I love how American might was used to secure a favorable oil deal for . . . China.

And when you invaded Japan, and even nuked them, I love how you dumped your goods there, squashed the native industry, and kept them as a satelite power, beholden to the USA.

Sorry, if the USA was “mercantilist,” it’s the most piss-poor mecantilist in the history of the world.

Like the other anti-American poster (Although I guess you are a self-loathing American), no one (but perhaps you) fall for this crap. It’s pseudo-intellectual garbage designed to hide the fact you don’t like America behind a cloud of weasel.[/quote]

yeah dirt and rocks, that exactly what Afghanistan has to offer, kinda like the dirt and rocks china is now squeezing balls about now. or maybe its all that lithium, you know that stuff that makes batteries, like the kinda batteries that will run everything.

If you honestly don’t believe America is a pretty classic imperialist, just look at our policy regarding South and Central America for the past 100 years or so. Seems like we might have had a bit of a hand in how things turned out down there.

It’s hardly self-loathing, its called how democracy works. We talk about things and reach a consensus, but I guess you won’t know that because you aren’t from here.

90

[quote]Bambi wrote:
btw Jewbacca I do agree entirely about what you said about the late soviet union - there is always a difference between rich and poor.

Obama is not a socialist though. That’s just funny[/quote]

He’s not a European Socialist in 2010, sure. He’s a European socialist of 1910.

You guys have had a 100 years of programing to become serfs again.

They have to start with the soft sell, like boiling a frog. If you turn up the heat too fast, it will jump out. If you turn it up slow — it will just sit there and boil.

91

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
I dont support people who send people over sea to kill others.
[/quote]

You mean, like the Taliban/Al-quadi flying planes into buildings in NYC? Or Iran sending proxies to Gaza to shell elementary schools in Israel? Or Iraq sending assasins to try to kill George Bush, the Elder?

Your one-sided non-interventionists crap is a transparent lie to everyone but youself.

The real truth is you (and most Europeans) hate America, hate Americans, look down on them, and yet are jealous of them and their success, and so revel in the USA getting put in its place.[/quote]

So if we don’t support America in every single policy it enacts, we support the Taliban.

Good to know. All hail Osama!
[/quote]

No, what he said was that flore singled out the american side of the conflict for scrutiny omitting the other side and noted that flore should be as opposed to terrorists and their actions.[/quote]

why should I express my opposition to terrorism when its irrelevant to the subject. My post where to Zeb who implied that all people like me support obama. And I did express opposition to that. I argued that I dont support obama aslong as he keeps the occupation of afganistan running. Its the same reason that I dont support the norwegain party`s “labor party” and “the socialist leftparty”. regardless of theire party names I am in opposition to theire afganistan policy( they send norwegian troops down there ). So to make my point clare: I dont support occupation of another country regardless of the party or politician.

btw: I am offcourse against terrorism( killing of civilians on purpose ) regardless of who`s doing it.

92

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
“First of all, Afghanistan has quite a lot to offer.”

You’re right. 9/11 was a conspiracy. GW Bush personally flew planes into the World Trade Center, so the US could invade Afaganistan and corner the heroin market.

“Then, the oil price went up after the invasion of Iraq which was quite profitable for a lot of American companies. You do not need to control supply when you already produce some of it and can make your product scarcer than it ought to be.”

Rather inefficient. The Big 5 US oil companies have 5% of the oil production in the world. Also, they don’t own the oil, the lease it. When the price goes up, they have to pay more for it (royalty) and pay more for production and taxe. Their PRE-PRODUCTION COST cut is about 25% of the price. After cost, it’s about 8%.

“Also, Japan is an American satellite”

Yeah, I love how we completely shut down their domestic car production.

“Not necessarily a bad thing, but it is also a fact that America repeatedly refused to take the medicine she so readily made other people swallow, i.e. reduce trade barriers, balance her budget and so further and so on.”

There are actually very few trade barriers in the USA with countries that don’t have barriers witht he USA. But, more to the point, that has nothing to do with anything being discussed.

“To sum it up, the claim that the US is mercantilist and corporatist is not entirely unfounded.”

You lost me at “corporatist.” A corporation is a bunch of people who decided to pool their money to do something together. Yeah, that’s terrible.
[/quote]

In order of appearance:

Strawman.

Yes, corporatism is ineffcient for the whole of society but quite profitable for some. Point?

The US forced them to open their markets. Not their fault that noone can force the Japanese to buy shitty American cars.

Yes it has, because it demonstrates that the US does not live by the same rules it expects others to follow which is at least pointing towards imperial delusions.

Words mean something, “corporatist” is a word. Look it up.

93

[quote]florelius wrote:

why should I express my opposition to terrorism when its irrelevant to the subject. [/quote]

This is where your public school education is showing.

Terrorists operate in a grand scale (WMDs, 9/11, whatever) pretty much only when they have: (1) a safe haven to train and (2) best of all, a state sponsor.

The Taliban in Afganistan provided both a safe haven and a state sponsor to Al Quada. They would come back if the USA left now.

For that matter, Saddam Hussein did too, but those terrorists primarily killed evil Jooos and (worse) evil Joooo Israelis, well, and hijacked cruise ships (and pushed crippled people, wheel chair and all) into the sea.

If you are “against” terrorism, you should not be against the invasion of Afganistan and should at least be able to almost tolerate the invasion of Iraq, even if you don’t like it.

And because no one wants to talk about it anymore:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html

94

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
“First of all, Afghanistan has quite a lot to offer.”

You’re right. 9/11 was a conspiracy. GW Bush personally flew planes into the World Trade Center, so the US could invade Afaganistan and corner the heroin market.

“Then, the oil price went up after the invasion of Iraq which was quite profitable for a lot of American companies. You do not need to control supply when you already produce some of it and can make your product scarcer than it ought to be.”

Rather inefficient. The Big 5 US oil companies have 5% of the oil production in the world. Also, they don’t own the oil, the lease it. When the price goes up, they have to pay more for it (royalty) and pay more for production and taxe. Their PRE-PRODUCTION COST cut is about 25% of the price. After cost, it’s about 8%.

“Also, Japan is an American satellite”

Yeah, I love how we completely shut down their domestic car production.

“Not necessarily a bad thing, but it is also a fact that America repeatedly refused to take the medicine she so readily made other people swallow, i.e. reduce trade barriers, balance her budget and so further and so on.”

There are actually very few trade barriers in the USA with countries that don’t have barriers witht he USA. But, more to the point, that has nothing to do with anything being discussed.

“To sum it up, the claim that the US is mercantilist and corporatist is not entirely unfounded.”

You lost me at “corporatist.” A corporation is a bunch of people who decided to pool their money to do something together. Yeah, that’s terrible.
[/quote]

In order of appearance:

Strawman.

Yes, corporatism is ineffcient for the whole of society but quite profitable for some. Point?

The US forced them to open their markets. Not their fault that noone can force the Japanese to buy shitty American cars.

Yes it has, because it demonstrates that the US does not live by the same rules it expects others to follow which is at least pointing towards imperial delusions.

Words mean something, “corporatist” is a word. Look it up.

[/quote]

Corporations are bad? Yes, we should only have sole partnerships. No one should be allowed to invest together. It’s bad to have teams! NO cooperation! (Well except for The Collective.)

“Corporatist” is a liberal made-up weasel word.

95

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

why should I express my opposition to terrorism when its irrelevant to the subject. [/quote]

This is where your public school education is showing.

Terrorists operate in a grand scale (WMDs, 9/11, whatever) pretty much only when they have: (1) a safe haven to train and (2) best of all, a state sponsor.

The Taliban in Afganistan provided both a safe haven and a state sponsor to Al Quada. They would come back if the USA left now.

For that matter, Saddam Hussein did too, but those terrorists primarily killed evil Jooos and (worse) evil Joooo Israelis, well, and hijacked cruise ships (and pushed crippled people, wheel chair and all) into the sea.

If you are “against” terrorism, you should not be against the invasion of Afganistan and should at least be able to almost tolerate the invasion of Iraq, even if you don’t like it.

And because no one wants to talk about it anymore:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html[/quote]

killing is killing. I dont support al quada nor do I support the american occupation of iraq or afganistan. Do you know how many civillians that have died in iraq since the invasion?

here is a link.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

96

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
“First of all, Afghanistan has quite a lot to offer.”

You’re right. 9/11 was a conspiracy. GW Bush personally flew planes into the World Trade Center, so the US could invade Afaganistan and corner the heroin market.

“Then, the oil price went up after the invasion of Iraq which was quite profitable for a lot of American companies. You do not need to control supply when you already produce some of it and can make your product scarcer than it ought to be.”

Rather inefficient. The Big 5 US oil companies have 5% of the oil production in the world. Also, they don’t own the oil, the lease it. When the price goes up, they have to pay more for it (royalty) and pay more for production and taxe. Their PRE-PRODUCTION COST cut is about 25% of the price. After cost, it’s about 8%.

“Also, Japan is an American satellite”

Yeah, I love how we completely shut down their domestic car production.

“Not necessarily a bad thing, but it is also a fact that America repeatedly refused to take the medicine she so readily made other people swallow, i.e. reduce trade barriers, balance her budget and so further and so on.”

There are actually very few trade barriers in the USA with countries that don’t have barriers witht he USA. But, more to the point, that has nothing to do with anything being discussed.

“To sum it up, the claim that the US is mercantilist and corporatist is not entirely unfounded.”

You lost me at “corporatist.” A corporation is a bunch of people who decided to pool their money to do something together. Yeah, that’s terrible.
[/quote]

In order of appearance:

Strawman.

Yes, corporatism is ineffcient for the whole of society but quite profitable for some. Point?

The US forced them to open their markets. Not their fault that noone can force the Japanese to buy shitty American cars.

Yes it has, because it demonstrates that the US does not live by the same rules it expects others to follow which is at least pointing towards imperial delusions.

Words mean something, “corporatist” is a word. Look it up.

[/quote]

Corporations are bad? Yes, we should only have sole partnerships. No one should be allowed to invest together. It’s bad to have teams! NO cooperation! (Well except for The Collective.)

“Corporatist” is a liberal made-up weasel word.[/quote]

Strawmen and no dictionary.

Color me unimpressed.

Wait, I hate America, right?

97

from your link :

"Recent event :
Wednesday 10 November: 12 killed

Baghdad: 5 killed in attacks against Christians."

i won’t call someone who attack Christians in Baghdad a civilian…

98

[quote]florelius wrote:
killing is killing. [/quote]

No, it’s not. This kind of moral equivalency is for soft thinkers.

Let’s bring it back to WWII, which unless you are a Quisling, the Nazis were the bad guys. They burned up people, stole shit, and invaded countries unproked.

Now, the SS rounding up and killing people because they were undersirable is BAD.

Finding the SS, killing them to keep them from killing more people is GOOD.

Mushheads who just say “war is bad” are silly people.

Yes, war is bad. I’ve been in wars. It sucks. But sometimes it is justified and necessary.

So, no, killing is not killing.

99

[quote]kamui wrote:

from your link :

"Recent event :
Wednesday 10 November: 12 killed

Baghdad: 5 killed in attacks against Christians."

i won’t call someone who attack Christians in Baghdad a civilian…

[/quote]

Apparently, liberals think it is OK to kill Christians and Jews. We’re not allowed to fight back, and must march off to our deaths.

No wonder muslims are taking over Europe. There are no men left to stop them.

100

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

Terrorists operate in a grand scale (WMDs, 9/11, whatever) pretty much only when they have: (1) a safe haven to train and (2) best of all, a state sponsor.
[/quote]

You mean like mossad? or the Israeli Defense Forces?