[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Anytime I catch myself thinking life is meaningless, I find it is helpful to ask myself how would life/reality be different if it had meaning?[/quote]
This is the flip side of the “meaning of life” criticism of atheism.
Theists are happy to point out that atheism implies no objective morality or purpose.
But, if they are devout Christians–which, around here, they tend to be–what, in their view, is this meaning of life for which they are so grateful?
It is to please God. (To love him–because he wants you to. To do what he says–because he wants you to. In the end, it all reduces to pleasing God.) Some call it humility, others call it servility, slavery.
I’d love a universe with a generally disinterested God on whom morality can rely. Absent that, I would rather live a life without objective purpose than one whose purpose begins and ends with the pleasure of an omniscient suzerain.[/quote]
Well said, especially the suzerain part. Love that word, thanks for sharing it with me.
Agreed. I have a hard time believing anything so almighty is so desperate for attention. 238 did a good job comparing His love to that of a father, and although it doesn’t quite click with me, I can see that side of it a little better now.[/quote]
It’s a nuance that I reckon is pretty difficult to explain. I can see why it may appear that way to you guys. But it’s not like that to us at all. We do it gladly, not because we have to. Indeed we do not have to. There is no conclusion to do it because of fear, indoctrination, requirement, oppression, etc.
I think I can speak for many of us, that we do it gladly. We do it for love. We don’t feel obligated but we want to.
Is there something in it for us? Sure. I guess at some degree that matters, at another point it doesn’t. It is a reciprocal relationship.
In a tangible way, from my experience it is in fact better to give than receive. In whatever I have given, I have gotten back 100 times more. And further, I expect to.
But it’s not a relationship of overlord whose going to throw you out on your ass if you don’t do what he says. We don’t see God as a desperate for attention, he doesn’t need us, but we need Him. I see it as Him giving us the opportunity to know Him, if we want to. If we open our hearts, he will fill it.
Personally, for you Ace. I am not looking for any kind of argument or fight. I know you are suffering, for you have revealed that to us. I would want more than anything to help. I don’t mean in anything religious or some off hand attempt to convert you to anything. Just help. To let you know there are those of us who have suffered similar things. I know it’s just a forum, but if there’s anything I can do I would like to. I am sure I am not alone. Or if you would prefer I just shut up, I will do that as well. It’s your choice. I am just extending an olive branch. I don’t want you to suffer… If I have said to much, I am sorry. What you said got to me and I hate it for you. [/quote]
This seems to be better suited for the opposite thread, since you’re not asking questions of us, you’re giving us your side of things. Either way, I get it. YOU do it out of love, but you can’t speak for all believers.
Especially after “fear of the lord is the beginning of all wisdom.” That really lays it down. Nothing about love in there. Just fear. Sure, there is context and apologetics, and explanations, I know. Taken at face value, though? Intense.
[/quote]
But look at what it says. It’s the beginning of all wisdom. It’s not the sum total of wisdom.
[quote]
Now, Pat, as for your personal need to help me. Like I said, I’m good. I went through a horribly painful couple of months, but I’m nearing the light at the end of the tunnel. Things are looking up. I don’t feel the need to hide my pain from anyone that asks, I enjoy my vulnerability. If you would do me a favor, watch the video from TED that I posted a page back or so. That will explain a lot. These discussions are giving me plenty of food for thought, plus I have a whole team of professionals and friends, family, teachers, mentors, gurus, you name it. I’ve got help pouring out my ears, man.
Truly, I appreciate your concern. But since this is a public forum, and the PMs are down, I’m all good. Let’s not derail this train any further, deal?[/quote]
Yeah, I get it. I am sorry. Sometimes people want to help too much. Consider it dropped. That was just a bomb I was not expecting. It stopped being an academic exercise at that point.
