[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
I have a question. Why are the most religious countries the poorest per capita?[/quote]
Most countries are poor, we live in a bubble a small one of great wealth. We are the minority, not poverty.[/quote]
There is a negative relationship between a country’s religiosity and it’s per capita income. That isn’t explained by our single country’s supposed exception to the rule. It’s hard to ignore data.
[quote]pat wrote:
Where do you get your information that most believers ignore that? I know a lot of believers none of whom ignore it, but strive towards it and know they fall short, like we all do.
It seems to me you are passing judgement on the majority of 2+ billion people based on the experience of very few. Who are you to pass this judgement? Do you know these folks? What’s really in their heart?
[/quote]
I get it from my own eyes. I posted it to you in another thread and of course you ignored it. I didn’t say everyone fell short. I pointed to specific examples from this forum from people who say they believe what you do. You said that comes from the media. I proved it comes from this forum. So I’m wrong? Why aren’t you calling these “Christians” out? I would think you’d be pissed as a Christian for people calling themselves the same thing as you and saying horrific things that go against the Word of God. Instead you’re focused on the fact that I don’t believe the Word?
Who am I to pass this judgement? I’m a nobody. Who are you? Also a nobody. People are asking about my morals and if I’m a good person yet I don’t claim to be one. I don’t claim to have a “good book.” I’m pointing out specific words from that book and asking why some people on here do not follow them specifically.
I can only pass judgement because I’m being told “this is the book that has all the answers.” So I’m asking why that is ignored.
I have no idea what’s really in anyone’s heart or even what that means. Neither do you. Clearly a high level of disdain for gay people is being shown by many people on this forum with the specific language they use about gay people. So does that get a pass because I don’t know what’s in their heart?
[quote]AceRock wrote:
There is a negative relationship between a country’s religiosity and it’s per capita income. [/quote]
You have links to this?
It is interesting, and I’m curious what other factors were taken into account, and what metrics were used.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
If I follow all the moral laws laid out in the Bible, the Ten Commandments, etc, aside from those relating to God, will I go to Hell?[/quote]
Are you asking us to pass judgement on you? That’s between you and God. If you want to know, ask him. If you don’t believe in Him, then what do you care and why would you care about following the commandments?[/quote]
No, you can’t judge me and decide my souls eternal fate. I’m asking, in your belief system or religion, will your God damn me to Hell for not serving Him? Regardless of my good deeds?
I’ve asked. He didn’t answer.
I want to be a good person and the rules are shared by most of society. They fall closely in line with actual laws and I don’t like jail.
Also, that’s the whole point of this thread. For me to ask the questions that I have of your beliefs.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Mark 10:21: Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.?
Why are we not doing this? This is being ignored by every single believer in this thread. [/quote]
Don’t cherry pick scripture, you don’t like it when it’s done. Who says it’s being ignored? You? You don’t know what we do outside of what we say. You don’t want us to judge you, and we don’t want to be judged by you. So let’s not, k?[/quote]
No one has every “cherry picked” my scripture I don’t have one.
I say it is being ignored. I am asking about it. Is that not the point of the thread?
I’m only judging you based off the criteria that you say you follow the words out of a book. I don’t really actually give two shits if you love your neighbor. I don’t think you have any obligation to love anyone. I’m just asking why certain parts of a book are clearly being ignored by the people who say they are such great words to live by except they don’t actually live by them, but what they think those words mean.
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
If I follow all the moral laws laid out in the Bible, the Ten Commandments, etc, aside from those relating to God, will I go to Hell?[/quote]
Are you asking us to pass judgement on you? That’s between you and God. If you want to know, ask him. If you don’t believe in Him, then what do you care and why would you care about following the commandments?[/quote]
No, you can’t judge me and decide my souls eternal fate. I’m asking, in your belief system or religion, will your God damn me to Hell for not serving Him? Regardless of my good deeds?
I’ve asked. He didn’t answer.
I want to be a good person and the rules are shared by most of society. They fall closely in line with actual laws and I don’t like jail.
Also, that’s the whole point of this thread. For me to ask the questions that I have of your beliefs.[/quote]
The guy who bases his life off a book that says believe or be tortured for forever in a lake of fire says I need to stop judging him?
I’m not judging anything, I’m asking questions. I don’t think anyone on this entire forum who dies will be tortured eternally in a lake of fire no matter what they do.
I don’t think that’s judgmental.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
There is a negative relationship between a country’s religiosity and it’s per capita income. [/quote]
You have links to this?
It is interesting, and I’m curious what other factors were taken into account, and what metrics were used.
[/quote]
Check the section called Issues with Religion.
I did no further research to verify the metrics, and I will be interested if you find some. I’ll check as well.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
If I follow all the moral laws laid out in the Bible, the Ten Commandments, etc, aside from those relating to God, will I go to Hell?[/quote]
Are you asking us to pass judgement on you? That’s between you and God. If you want to know, ask him. If you don’t believe in Him, then what do you care and why would you care about following the commandments?[/quote]
No, you can’t judge me and decide my souls eternal fate. I’m asking, in your belief system or religion, will your God damn me to Hell for not serving Him? Regardless of my good deeds?
I’ve asked. He didn’t answer.
I want to be a good person and the rules are shared by most of society. They fall closely in line with actual laws and I don’t like jail.
Also, that’s the whole point of this thread. For me to ask the questions that I have of your beliefs.[/quote]
The guy who bases his life off a book that says believe or be tortured for forever in a lake of fire says I need to stop judging him?
I’m not judging anything, I’m asking questions. I don’t think anyone on this entire forum who dies will be tortured eternally in a lake of fire no matter what they do.
I don’t think that’s judgmental.
[/quote]
H, I agree but I get the feeling this wasn’t the post you intended to quote. Correct me if I’m mistaken, I don’t really see the connection.
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
There is a negative relationship between a country’s religiosity and it’s per capita income. [/quote]
You have links to this?
It is interesting, and I’m curious what other factors were taken into account, and what metrics were used.
[/quote]
Check the section called Issues with Religion.
I did no further research to verify the metrics, and I will be interested if you find some. I’ll check as well.[/quote]
I think they are way off when it comes to the US. Also, hasn’t per capita growth occurred in the US while at the same “religiosity” has grown?
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
If I follow all the moral laws laid out in the Bible, the Ten Commandments, etc, aside from those relating to God, will I go to Hell?[/quote]
Are you asking us to pass judgement on you? That’s between you and God. If you want to know, ask him. If you don’t believe in Him, then what do you care and why would you care about following the commandments?[/quote]
No, you can’t judge me and decide my souls eternal fate. I’m asking, in your belief system or religion, will your God damn me to Hell for not serving Him? Regardless of my good deeds?
I’ve asked. He didn’t answer.
I want to be a good person and the rules are shared by most of society. They fall closely in line with actual laws and I don’t like jail.
Also, that’s the whole point of this thread. For me to ask the questions that I have of your beliefs.[/quote]
Why is my interpretation of things not ok but someone’s elses is?
I think if God is all knowing, all powerful, and all good hell would not exist. Gandhi would not be in hell for being born on the wrong side of the map. My sister who has already saved countless lives and will save countless more throughout her career who has never done anything greatly evil in her life will not burn in hell for coming to the conclusion God doesn’t exist with the rational mind that supposedly HE gave HER.
She didn’t set out to not believe. She isn’t a bad person for not believing. It didn’t make sense to her like it doesn’t make sense to me Doesn’t add up.
So eternity in a lake of fire? Really? Seems the punishment doesn’t fit the alleged crime.
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
If I follow all the moral laws laid out in the Bible, the Ten Commandments, etc, aside from those relating to God, will I go to Hell?[/quote]
Are you asking us to pass judgement on you? That’s between you and God. If you want to know, ask him. If you don’t believe in Him, then what do you care and why would you care about following the commandments?[/quote]
No, you can’t judge me and decide my souls eternal fate. I’m asking, in your belief system or religion, will your God damn me to Hell for not serving Him? Regardless of my good deeds?
I’ve asked. He didn’t answer.
I want to be a good person and the rules are shared by most of society. They fall closely in line with actual laws and I don’t like jail.
Also, that’s the whole point of this thread. For me to ask the questions that I have of your beliefs.[/quote]
The guy who bases his life off a book that says believe or be tortured for forever in a lake of fire says I need to stop judging him?
I’m not judging anything, I’m asking questions. I don’t think anyone on this entire forum who dies will be tortured eternally in a lake of fire no matter what they do.
I don’t think that’s judgmental.
[/quote]
H, I agree but I get the feeling this wasn’t the post you intended to quote. Correct me if I’m mistaken, I don’t really see the connection.
[/quote]
Sorry I was quoting your post in addition to it if that makes sense.
We see things basically the same way, you just do a better job of laying them out it seems often.
“The bottom line is we don’t know and the mind is a powerful thing.”
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
There is a negative relationship between a country’s religiosity and it’s per capita income. [/quote]
You have links to this?
It is interesting, and I’m curious what other factors were taken into account, and what metrics were used.
[/quote]
Check the section called Issues with Religion.
I did no further research to verify the metrics, and I will be interested if you find some. I’ll check as well.[/quote]
I found this also in the link. Now, I can say I do it for my mental and physical health, too!
Mayo Clinic researchers examined the association between religious involvement and spirituality, and physical health, mental health, health-related quality of life, and other health outcomes. The authors reported that: “Most studies have shown that religious involvement and spirituality are associated with better health outcomes, including greater longevity, coping skills, and health-related quality of life (even during terminal illness) and less anxiety, depression, and suicide.”[86]
The authors of a subsequent study concluded that the influence of religion on health is “largely beneficial”, based on a review of related literature.[87] According to academic James W. Jones, several studies have discovered “positive correlations between religious belief and practice and mental and physical health and longevity.” [88]
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
If I follow all the moral laws laid out in the Bible, the Ten Commandments, etc, aside from those relating to God, will I go to Hell?[/quote]
Are you asking us to pass judgement on you? That’s between you and God. If you want to know, ask him. If you don’t believe in Him, then what do you care and why would you care about following the commandments?[/quote]
No, you can’t judge me and decide my souls eternal fate. I’m asking, in your belief system or religion, will your God damn me to Hell for not serving Him? Regardless of my good deeds?
I’ve asked. He didn’t answer.
I want to be a good person and the rules are shared by most of society. They fall closely in line with actual laws and I don’t like jail.
Also, that’s the whole point of this thread. For me to ask the questions that I have of your beliefs.[/quote]
The guy who bases his life off a book that says believe or be tortured for forever in a lake of fire says I need to stop judging him?
I’m not judging anything, I’m asking questions. I don’t think anyone on this entire forum who dies will be tortured eternally in a lake of fire no matter what they do.
I don’t think that’s judgmental.
[/quote]
H, I agree but I get the feeling this wasn’t the post you intended to quote. Correct me if I’m mistaken, I don’t really see the connection.
[/quote]
Sorry I was quoting your post in addition to it if that makes sense.
We see things basically the same way, you just do a better job of laying them out it seems often.
[/quote]
Oh, no, you’re clear and lay it out perfectly. We do agree on most counts. I understand now, and agree with your post above about Gandhi and your sister. They will not pay for their sins.
Keep it up, my good man. I was just checking my understanding. Things get hazy on these boards.
Yep, believe in hell. Believe even I am in danger of it.
[quote]AceRock wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]AceRock wrote:
There is a negative relationship between a country’s religiosity and it’s per capita income. [/quote]
You have links to this?
It is interesting, and I’m curious what other factors were taken into account, and what metrics were used.
[/quote]
Check the section called Issues with Religion.
I did no further research to verify the metrics, and I will be interested if you find some. I’ll check as well.[/quote]
Looks like this is where it comes from.
My brain is fried today. I don’t have what it takes to plow though this today, lol.
Haven’t read the thread, but my question.
What does your religion give you that you wouldn’t have otherwise?
EDIT: and how does that benefit your life/why did you not have that before religion?
[quote]MaazerSmiit wrote:
Haven’t read the thread, but my question.
What does your religion give you that you wouldn’t have otherwise?[/quote]
God. A belief in the reality of good and evil. For instance, I don’t believe being charitable is an arbitrary lifestyle choice. I believe it’s a moral obligation. From the link up above, maybe better health too. Bonus!
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I don’t believe being charitable is an arbitrary lifestyle choice. [/quote]
Ever entertained the idea that you’re genetically predisposed to be charitable and religion is merely the vehicle you use to act on it?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
God.
[/quote]
I know I didn’t ask you to explain why what your religion gave you was good/necessary in the original question (I’ll edit it), but what benefit does God give your life?
As in - some people are morally right, and some are morally wrong? I think I read earlier in this thread that you weren’t raised religious - did the concepts of right and wrong not mean anything to you until you found religion?
I agree with this - but why is religion necessary to think so?
[quote]From the link up above, maybe better health too. Bonus!
[/quote]
Will check the link out