Religious Controversies: The Right Religion

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

<<< “Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.” >>>[/quote]
What if they believe that man boy love is divinely helpful and remedial of suffering?[/quote]

What if they track down unhappy disabled or suffering people and end their misery with bullet in their head? Technically destroying all life on the earth in a massive explosion would be the path of least suffering.[/quote]

You guys are taking this way way too far.
[/quote]

Any purpose statement can be twisted to evil, but “ending suffering” would lead to a lot of despicable ends.

42

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

<<< “Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.” >>>[/quote]
What if they believe that man boy love is divinely helpful and remedial of suffering?[/quote]

What if they track down unhappy disabled or suffering people and end their misery with bullet in their head? Technically destroying all life on the earth in a massive explosion would be the path of least suffering.[/quote]

You guys are taking this way way too far.
[/quote]

I think a lot of us just like to argue sometimes just to argue. I am not above this. I do it all the time, but I do not argue just to argue when it comes to my God.

43

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Ironic, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

I am going to stick up for the Roman Catholic Church on this one. I do not agree with all of their doctrines as many can see, but they can and are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I heard a study and the Catholic Church by percentages of men have a lower percentage of Child Molesters than the public. This does not abolish the crime, because the priest should be above reproach, but the priests are humans just like you and me, and they have their sins. I think the Catholic Church really screwed up by allowing these men to be placed in another church with children. They should have sent them to a monestary to never be arond children ever again. They will be judged for this. The Pope really screwed up no matter which one allowed this to go on. They have apologized, and hopefully will pay restitution and not go through the bankruptcy proceedings to keep their money in the Vatican.[/quote]

dmmadox, I respect and value your opinion. But you shouldn’t stick up for these people on this issue. They have done this for decades. When a priest gets in trouble, they move him to another church rather than sending him to jail. They should sent these people right to jail for a long long time. These people should never be defended.

44

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Ironic, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

I am going to stick up for the Roman Catholic Church on this one. I do not agree with all of their doctrines as many can see, but they can and are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I heard a study and the Catholic Church by percentages of men have a lower percentage of Child Molesters than the public. This does not abolish the crime, because the priest should be above reproach, but the priests are humans just like you and me, and they have their sins. I think the Catholic Church really screwed up by allowing these men to be placed in another church with children. They should have sent them to a monestary to never be arond children ever again. They will be judged for this. The Pope really screwed up no matter which one allowed this to go on. They have apologized, and hopefully will pay restitution and not go through the bankruptcy proceedings to keep their money in the Vatican.[/quote]

dmmadox, I respect and value your opinion. But you shouldn’t stick up for these people on this issue. They have done this for decades. When a priest gets in trouble, they move him to another church rather than sending him to jail. They should sent these people right to jail for a long long time. These people should never be defended.
[/quote]

The church the body, the church the administration and the church the clergy are all different things. I believe he was defending the church the body of people.

45

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
<<< Obviously, rape is a greatly traumatic act that causes suffering to the victim. One should not cause suffering for others. Obviously, I’m against rape.[/quote]
Obvious to who? What if there is consent? Who are you to stick your nose into somebody’s business and tell them what the age of consent is or what suffering is? What if I disagree? What makes your definitions any better than mine?[/quote]

If there’s consent, then it’s not rape, is it? That’s consensual sex.

46

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

<<< “Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.” >>>[/quote]
What if they believe that man boy love is divinely helpful and remedial of suffering?[/quote]

What if they track down unhappy disabled or suffering people and end their misery with bullet in their head? Technically destroying all life on the earth in a massive explosion would be the path of least suffering.[/quote]

You guys are taking this way way too far.
[/quote]

Any purpose statement can be twisted to evil, but “ending suffering” would lead to a lot of despicable ends.[/quote]

Not when you take every effected party in mind :slight_smile:

47

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
<<< Obviously, rape is a greatly traumatic act that causes suffering to the victim. One should not cause suffering for others. Obviously, I’m against rape.[/quote]
Obvious to who? What if there is consent? Who are you to stick your nose into somebody’s business and tell them what the age of consent is or what suffering is? What if I disagree? What makes your definitions any better than mine?[/quote]

If there’s consent, then it’s not rape, is it? That’s consensual sex.[/quote]

NOt legally for a minor. Pedophiles often have consent of the child.

48

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

<<< “Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.” >>>[/quote]
What if they believe that man boy love is divinely helpful and remedial of suffering?[/quote]

What if they track down unhappy disabled or suffering people and end their misery with bullet in their head? Technically destroying all life on the earth in a massive explosion would be the path of least suffering.[/quote]

You guys are taking this way way too far.
[/quote]

I think a lot of us just like to argue sometimes just to argue. I am not above this. I do it all the time, but I do not argue just to argue when it comes to my God.[/quote]

Definitely agree, this is what it seems like. I just don’t want to detract from this topic and go off into a tangent because some people are disagreeing with my beliefs (even though this thread was about everyones).

49

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
<<< Obviously, rape is a greatly traumatic act that causes suffering to the victim. One should not cause suffering for others. Obviously, I’m against rape.[/quote]
Obvious to who? What if there is consent? Who are you to stick your nose into somebody’s business and tell them what the age of consent is or what suffering is? What if I disagree? What makes your definitions any better than mine?[/quote]

If there’s consent, then it’s not rape, is it? That’s consensual sex.[/quote]

NOt legally for a minor. Pedophiles often have consent of the child.[/quote]

I’ll respond to this, but first, answer this: what is wrong with a man having sex with a minor?

50

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Jesus didn’t found the Catholic church. The Catholics don’t have any inherent monopoly on Christianity.[/quote]

Um…Jesus did give us our Authority. Unless, you know Jesus really didn’t mean what He said.

Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ. [/quote]

ahhhh, just finished my first practice exam for my series 6 test, and I have a few minutes while I await my fellow classmates’ completing their tests, so I will tackle this one . . .

Bro Chris - much respect to the RCC for its positive impacts on the world. However, you are building on a false premise with your interpretation of this verse.

Christ uses a play on words based on two things - Peter’s Correct Identification of his Deity, and Peter’s name . . . petros - piece of a rock (Peter’s name) compared to petra - a large formation/mass of stone/rock (recognition of Christ’s deity) of which a petros would be a piece. There is a clear distinction in the Greek between Peter and the Rock.

a good comparison would be a large stone or a boulder that falls off of Stone Mountain . . . they are not the same thing, thus Christ could not have been referring to Peter. A fact born out by the text itself.

So the statement is correctly read as "and I say you are a piece of stone (a part of the larger stone because of his faith) and on this Large Stone (accepting my deity in faith) I will build my church.

The emphasis/focus for that which Christ will build His Church upon is recognition of His deity - the first step in accepting his sacrifice as the atonement for our sins. The concept being that the cornerstone of the Church - the beginning/base of the church would be Christ himself as testified to in Ephesians 2:20 (I think that’s the right verse)

It is even further attested to when in the same passage He commands His disciples to not tell anyone that He is the Christ - the very thing that Peter declared and that Christ identified as the stone upon which the church would be built. The focus of the passage is clearly the deity/person of Christ, not Peter . . .

The Keys of th eKingdom and following - are given to all believers and do not represent any type of authority or position here on earth . . .

Sorry, but it doesn’t mean what you think it means . . .

[/quote]

So, you basically are saying Jesus said something that he really didn’t mean. Thanks.

51

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
<<< Obviously, rape is a greatly traumatic act that causes suffering to the victim. One should not cause suffering for others. Obviously, I’m against rape.[/quote]
Obvious to who? What if there is consent? Who are you to stick your nose into somebody’s business and tell them what the age of consent is or what suffering is? What if I disagree? What makes your definitions any better than mine?[/quote]

If there’s consent, then it’s not rape, is it? That’s consensual sex.[/quote]

NOt legally for a minor. Pedophiles often have consent of the child.[/quote]

I’ll respond to this, but first, answer this: what is wrong with a man having sex with a minor?
[/quote]

Not mature enough to understand consequences and therefore cannot consent. The same way a drunk person cannot consent (only the minor doesn’t control their maturity)

Further, the minors’ guardians have both responsibility for and privilege to the child. A parent can deny consent.

52

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Ironic, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

Really, so 3.2% of child molesters are religious clerics, and only a fraction of that statistic is Catholic clerics, and my religion has the majority of them? I think you need to learn how to read statistics.

53

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

<<< “Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.” >>>[/quote]
What if they believe that man boy love is divinely helpful and remedial of suffering?[/quote]

Catholic priests don’t believe this and do it anyways.

Obviously, rape is a greatly traumatic act that causes suffering to the victim. One should not cause suffering for others. Obviously, I’m against rape.[/quote]

Some…some Catholic Priests. Stop committing fallacies.

54

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Ironic, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

Really, so 3.2% of child molesters are religious clerics, and only a fraction of that statistic is Catholic clerics, and my religion has the majority of them? I think you need to learn how to read statistics.[/quote]

What religion is accused more for rape charges?

55

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Ironic, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

I am going to stick up for the Roman Catholic Church on this one. I do not agree with all of their doctrines as many can see, but they can and are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I heard a study and the Catholic Church by percentages of men have a lower percentage of Child Molesters than the public. This does not abolish the crime, because the priest should be above reproach, but the priests are humans just like you and me, and they have their sins. I think the Catholic Church really screwed up by allowing these men to be placed in another church with children. They should have sent them to a monestary to never be arond children ever again. They will be judged for this. The Pope really screwed up no matter which one allowed this to go on. They have apologized, and hopefully will pay restitution and not go through the bankruptcy proceedings to keep their money in the Vatican.[/quote]

dmmadox, I respect and value your opinion. But you shouldn’t stick up for these people on this issue. They have done this for decades. When a priest gets in trouble, they move him to another church rather than sending him to jail. They should sent these people right to jail for a long long time. These people should never be defended.
[/quote]

Sorry, no one here is defending rapists, they are defending the Catholic Church. Most people would want them to go to jail. Me? A catholic? I want to hang 'em from the tallest tree around. All of them, all hundred or so of them.

56

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Ironic, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

I am going to stick up for the Roman Catholic Church on this one. I do not agree with all of their doctrines as many can see, but they can and are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I heard a study and the Catholic Church by percentages of men have a lower percentage of Child Molesters than the public. This does not abolish the crime, because the priest should be above reproach, but the priests are humans just like you and me, and they have their sins. I think the Catholic Church really screwed up by allowing these men to be placed in another church with children. They should have sent them to a monestary to never be arond children ever again. They will be judged for this. The Pope really screwed up no matter which one allowed this to go on. They have apologized, and hopefully will pay restitution and not go through the bankruptcy proceedings to keep their money in the Vatican.[/quote]

dmmadox, I respect and value your opinion. But you shouldn’t stick up for these people on this issue. They have done this for decades. When a priest gets in trouble, they move him to another church rather than sending him to jail. They should sent these people right to jail for a long long time. These people should never be defended.
[/quote]

I am sticking up for the Church, and not the people that did this. I agree they should go to jail. This is by far one of the top 2-3 things done by the Roman Catholic Church ever that I hate. These priests should be castrated if I had a say. I just do not want people to think it was the Church that did this. They were individual men that did this. The Pope or the Cardinals also had a hand in it by moving them around. If they were going to move the priests they should have not allowed them access to children ever again.

57

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
<<< Obviously, rape is a greatly traumatic act that causes suffering to the victim. One should not cause suffering for others. Obviously, I’m against rape.[/quote]
Obvious to who? What if there is consent? Who are you to stick your nose into somebody’s business and tell them what the age of consent is or what suffering is? What if I disagree? What makes your definitions any better than mine?[/quote]

If there’s consent, then it’s not rape, is it? That’s consensual sex.[/quote]

NOt legally for a minor. Pedophiles often have consent of the child.[/quote]

I’ll respond to this, but first, answer this: what is wrong with a man having sex with a minor?
[/quote]

Not mature enough to understand consequences and therefore cannot consent. The same way a drunk person cannot consent (only the minor doesn’t control their maturity)
[/quote]

If these consequences lead to suffering at a later time for the victim or his/her families, then this action is wrong. There are cultures that had consequential sex between men and children (ancient Greek) which did not result in consequences at a later time. It was considered normal.

58

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Ironic, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

Really, so 3.2% of child molesters are religious clerics, and only a fraction of that statistic is Catholic clerics, and my religion has the majority of them? I think you need to learn how to read statistics.[/quote]

What religion is accused more for rape charges?[/quote]

First, not to be a “racist” but I would bet all my money that Muslims commit more rape than any other religion. 2, you said your religion has the majority, not your religion has the majority out of all religions. Why artificially limit the scope to religions?

59

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Ironic, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

I am going to stick up for the Roman Catholic Church on this one. I do not agree with all of their doctrines as many can see, but they can and are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I heard a study and the Catholic Church by percentages of men have a lower percentage of Child Molesters than the public. This does not abolish the crime, because the priest should be above reproach, but the priests are humans just like you and me, and they have their sins. I think the Catholic Church really screwed up by allowing these men to be placed in another church with children. They should have sent them to a monestary to never be arond children ever again. They will be judged for this. The Pope really screwed up no matter which one allowed this to go on. They have apologized, and hopefully will pay restitution and not go through the bankruptcy proceedings to keep their money in the Vatican.[/quote]

dmmadox, I respect and value your opinion. But you shouldn’t stick up for these people on this issue. They have done this for decades. When a priest gets in trouble, they move him to another church rather than sending him to jail. They should sent these people right to jail for a long long time. These people should never be defended.
[/quote]

I am sticking up for the Church, and not the people that did this. I agree they should go to jail. This is by far one of the top 2-3 things done by the Roman Catholic Church ever that I hate. These priests should be castrated if I had a say. I just do not want people to think it was the Church that did this. They were individual men that did this. The Pope or the Cardinals also had a hand in it by moving them around. If they were going to move the priests they should have not allowed them access to children ever again.[/quote]

But the church did allow this. They were aware of this for years. This is the same thing as a school principal being aware a teacher was raping children and instead of calling the authorities, they simply moved them to different classes.

The church is guilty.

60

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
<<< Obviously, rape is a greatly traumatic act that causes suffering to the victim. One should not cause suffering for others. Obviously, I’m against rape.[/quote]
Obvious to who? What if there is consent? Who are you to stick your nose into somebody’s business and tell them what the age of consent is or what suffering is? What if I disagree? What makes your definitions any better than mine?[/quote]

If there’s consent, then it’s not rape, is it? That’s consensual sex.[/quote]

NOt legally for a minor. Pedophiles often have consent of the child.[/quote]

I’ll respond to this, but first, answer this: what is wrong with a man having sex with a minor?
[/quote]

Not mature enough to understand consequences and therefore cannot consent. The same way a drunk person cannot consent (only the minor doesn’t control their maturity)
[/quote]

If these consequences lead to suffering at a later time for the victim or his/her families, then this action is wrong. There are cultures that had consequential sex between men and children (ancient Greek) which did not result in consequences at a later time. It was considered normal.
[/quote]

WOW. so the reason pedophiles cause harm is not because sex with kids is bad, but because society refuses to accept the acts?