Religious Controversies: Man/Woman Equality

I realize that it may be near the end of the fourth quarter but may I jump in?

Stated,

“…we can’t find any evidence in the 39 books of the Old Testament that sex between unmarried folks was sinful. Wrong. Condemned. Immoral…”

The people of God have always been tempted to accept the practices and standards of morality of the society to which they belong. Therefore, God commands His people to make His word the only Standard by which to judge right and wrong. We must never conform to the surrounding society and accept its way of life. God must be the sole source and standard for all human moral and spiritual conduct.

Believers, first and foremost, must be morally and sexually pure (cf. II Cor. 11:2; Titus 2:5; I Pet. 3:2). The word “pure” or “Chaste” (Gk. hagnos) means to be free from all taint of that which is lewd. It suggests refraining from all acts and thoughts that incite desire not in accordance with one’s virginity or one’s marriage vows. It stresses restraint and avoidance of all sexual actions and excitements that would defile, debase, or cheapen one’s purity before God. It includes controlling one’s own body “in sanctification and honor” (I Thes. 4:4), and not in “lust” (4:5). This instruction of Scripture is for both those who are single and those married. With regard to the biblical teaching concerning sexual morality, note the following:

(1) Sexual intimacy is reserved for the marriage relationship and is approved and blessed by God only in that state. Song Of Solomon 2:7 is spoken by the maiden and refers to physical intimacy between her and her lover. She does not want any intimacy to occur until the situation is appropriate, i.e., until she and Solomon are married. The Bible allows for sexual relations only between a husband and a wife. In Song Of Solomon 4:12, the three figures of speech emphasize the fact the Shulamite had retained her virginity and was sexually pure on her wedding night. Virginity until marriage is God’s sexual standard of purity for all young people, male and female. To violate God’s holy standard defiles one’s spirit and conscience and cheapens the moment of marriage consummation.

(2) Adultery (unfaithfulness to one’s spouse), fornication (all sexual relations, to include homosexuality, sensuality, impure desires, and degrating passions) are considered grave sins in the sight of God since they are a transgression of His law and a defiling of the marriage relationship. Such sins are severely condemned in Scripture. The book of Proverbs repeatedly warns about the destructiveness of sexual immorality. Solomon emphasizes that through immorality’s deceptive pleasures are attractive, giving in to them will lead to ruin (Pro. 5:1-14). Violations of God’s standards of sexual purity and chastity are found also in Proverbs 2:16-19; 6:20-35; 22:14; 23:27-28; 29:3; 30:20; 31:3. The alternative to sexual immorality is commitment to God (Pro. 5:1), disciplined restraint prior to marriage, and the fulfillment of natural sexual desire through a holy love life in marriage (Pro. 5:15-23). Premarital sex and marital infidelity have deadly consequences (Pro. 5:5,11). What may begin as a taste of honey (Pro. 5:3) will end with the taste of bitterness. God will not be mocked (Pro. 5:21); what is sown will be reaped.

(3)Sexual immorality and impurity include not only forbidden intercourse or consummated acts, but also involve any act of sexual gratification with another person other than one’s marriage partner, achieved by uncovering or exploring the nakedness of that person. The contemporary teaching that sexual intimacy among “committed” unmarried youth and adults is acceptable as long as it stops short of full sexual union is contrary to the holiness of God and the Biblical standard of purity. God explicitly prohibits the “uncovering of the nakedness” or “seeing the nakedness” of anyone who is not a lawful wife or husband (Lev. 18:6-30; 20:11,17,19-21).

Things intrinsically excellent are perversed by their abuse “Vanity of vanities…all is vanity” (Pro. 12:8).

Damn Push, if it wasn’t for the religion thing, I think we’d get along just fine.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
IS, you’re in the wrong chapters. Go to the end of ch. 6 and the first 9 verses of ch. 7.

Read all of 6 actually.[/quote]

no, not in the wrong chapters, I’m working towards the end. Chapters 4/5 introduces the narrator voice to the poem and it is essential to understand that.

on I go . . . :slight_smile:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I hope that pisses off some of you “I sure wish the Song of Solomon wasn’t in the canon” monks. >>>[/quote]
I’ve been holding this, with hope, since your first post in this thread to see how things would proceed. Like I said then, I knew this day would come.

I’ll tell, what to you will be a thoroughly pointless, petty and boring story about my very worst moment EVER here since I found this site.

It was several weeks ago and you and I were talking to AlisaV about something and after she told us what gentleman we were you told her you were “trying to get into her pants”. Talk about a face palm. I almost gave myself a black eye. It felt like I’d been stabbed in the heart because I knew you were making claims of Christ here. What do you think she thought when you said that? Saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost? More importantly, what do think Christ thought? There’s my liberated child letting his light shine before men so that they glorify My Father which is in heaven?

You don’t even take a feeble stab at a credible Christian testimony and ya know why? You have no idea what that is. We are supposed to be different, set apart, showing the world what He looks like both in holiness and forgiveness when we fall. “Come on Trib, jist a little playful talk” and that’s just the point. That’s all it is to you. She may even agree. ehh, that’s how guys are’ and that’s also the point. That IS just how guys are, but NOT Christian guys.

This whole thread has brought upon me the thing I greatly feared concerning you. Listen to yourself. I am not parading my sex life before the world, but I have made clear already that sex in marriage is DA BOMB, and the more explosive the better. No holds barred unleashed whoopee with no variety off limits, but this? This is how you talk about your wife on a public internet forum? And that with seething hostility for people who ARE trying to present a credible witness of the Christian Gospel

You fit right in here. Jesus does not. I am telling you as your friend, repent, and soon. Or at the very least leave Christ out of your filth.

Picking up where I left off in the summary:

OK, curtain opens on 5:2 with her awakening from sleep, and her lover has returned to her - obviously some time has passed since their romp in the forests of Lebanon, as she has awoken in her own rooms.

Her lover calls out for her to open the door, he has obviously come to her in the early morning hours.

5:3 - she has been expecting him, but now she starts teasing him again - he’s not in the mood for teasing, and tries to trip the latch, and she realizes his intensity and rises to open the door for him, but he has left.

5:7 - apparently the cops in those days were jerks like some today - they treated her roughly and prevented her from catching up to him, once she is free of them she calls out to the daughters of Jerusalem asking them to convey her feelings to her lover. (given that this is at night, the intonation is that these are the ladies of the evening.

5:9 - they reply by asking why they should help, who was her man that it was so important

5:10-16 - she goes into great detail about the marvelous traits of her man

6:1 - apparently they liked his description and offer to help her find him . . . yeah, she ain’t falling for that

6:2 - while they were speaking she has spotted her man and rushes to him

6:4 - he responds by lavishing her with praise

6:10 - the ladies of the evening like the way her man looks

6:11 - while they are making their hellos, he’s really getting turned on- and they start to leave

6:13 - the ladies of the evening who had been admiring their passion for each other, beg them to come back so that they can watch how her man ravishes her

6:14 - her lover replies that this is a dance for 2, not a public festival and they go back to her place

curtain falls/curtain rises

7:1-9 she is very obviously dancing for him . . . and the ravishing begins

7:10 - WOW!

7:11-13 -she really likes love-making in the great outdoors . . .

anyway - that’s the rundown over the basic questions you had . . see, no dancing before his male friends

do you guys want me to go back and give the literal/allegorical breakdown verse by verse still?

This is a truly beautiful and passionate poem - my lady and I love reading this together.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

…This whole thread has brought upon me the thing I greatly feared concerning you. Listen to yourself. I am not parading my sex life before the world, but I have made clear already that sex in marriage is DA BOMB, and the more explosive the better. No holds barred unleashed whoopee with no variety off limits, but this? This is how you talk about your wife on a public internet forum?..[/quote]

This is why you are a pathetic little man IN THIS DEBATE. Solomon can talk about his sex life under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit that has been translated and published in hundreds of languages for thousands of years and to billions of people and it is just fine. If I do it on an internet forum it is depraved, huh?

You are so blind, friend.[/quote]
OK, uncle.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

…It was several weeks ago and you and I were talking to AlisaV about something and after she told us what gentleman we were you told her you were “trying to get into her pants”. Talk about a face palm. I almost gave myself a black eye. It felt like I’d been stabbed in the heart because I knew you were making claims of Christ here. What do you think she thought when you said that? Saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost? More importantly, what do think Christ thought? There’s my liberated child letting his light shine before men so that they glorify My Father which is in heaven?

You don’t even take a feeble stab at a credible Christian testimony and ya know why? You have no idea what that is. We are supposed to be different, set apart, showing the world what He looks like both in holiness and forgiveness when we fall. “Come on Trib, jist a little playful talk” and that’s just the point. That’s all it is to you. She may even agree. ehh, that’s how guys are’ and that’s also the point. That IS just how guys are, but NOT Christian guys…[/quote]

You are mischaracterizing that exchange so that you can use it as part of your diatribe.

I wasn’t “making claims of Christ.” You really are a dishonest person. Seriously dishonest.
[/quote]
What is it with you Push. I did not say you claimed Christ in that exchange. I said you were doing it HERE, on this site and you were and are. I dunno man. I guess there shouldn’t be any more surprises from you, but you really don’t discern any difference in Solomon using the highest poetic language of his day and you using what in our society is rank pornographic profanity? That is Christlike?

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Picking up where I left off in the summary: >>>[/quote]
Meanwhile back at the ranch =]

I’ll ya folks I haven’t had this much fun since the last time I tore my shoulder out.