Religious Controversies: Homosexuality

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
According to the bible, men lusting for other men is a sin. Period.

But I think a healthy Christian would see that everyone sins, and being gay isn’t any worse than committing adultery even in your heart (lusting after other women), or sex outside of marriage.

I’ve never understood the logic in thinking homosexuality is some how a special sin that should be singled out.

How can a guy that sleeps around condemn others for homosexuality?[/quote]

Well in the Old Testament, men were never punished for having sex with multiple women. The only case was when it was another mans wife. In fact, in the Old Testament, it never condemns a man sleeping with a woman. The story of David and Bathsheba was because he took another mans wife, not just because he had sex with Bathsheba. If she had been a single woman, it may or may not have even been mentioned in the bible. However, it does repeatedly condemns homosexuality, even requiring the death penalty for it. But thats from a biblical standpoint.[/quote]

Yes, lusting after women is a sin in the bible.

And if you are going to skim through the bible only seeing physical punishments, technically, god doesn’t punish any sin. sheep going to heaven and goats to hell isn’t a physical punishment.[/quote]

Remember, the early church only had Old Testament as scripture. But I was saying that from a biblical standpoint, yes homosexuality is a"greater sin". According to the bible, what was the final act that caused Sodom and Gomorrah to be destroyed? What act is mentioned right before bestiality as a death sin?[/quote]

Wrong on just about everything. The old testament was not the only scripture for the jews. Even the works of the gospel existed, they just weren’t canonized.

No, there is no greater sin in the bible. Any sin is disqualification from the gifts of god.

There are many on the list that caused the fall of sodom and gomorrah.

All sins cause death.

You are once again only see the physical side of things, and that isn’t even what the bible is about. I’m having trouble getting you to understand that, in the bible, the most significant events (punishments, reward, completeness) come after the physical ends.

122

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
and gerbils . . .don’t forget the traumatized gerbils![/quote]

Do you actively seek to fail, or does it just come naturally to you?

123

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:
But I am still curious why you argue with any of those who are against it when you arent a Christian.[/quote]

They seek to trample the rights of those different to them.

Not really that hard to grasp, but I guess it’s easy to ignore.[/quote]

Oh, yeah . . . trampling all of those rights . . .we don’t let them drive, vote, run for office, make movies, buy clothes, sell goods, provide advice, own property, run in marathons, ride bycicles, travel across state lines, invest in mutual funds, chew gum, make burritos, raise cattle, grow crops, wear hats, go on reality tv shows, make music videos, form dance teams, wear pastels, be vegan, go to any outdoor concerts, have parades, play tennis, paddle canoes . . . .

124

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
LMAO - I really am enjoying this thread . . . never seen so many “experts” on Christianity in my life![/quote]

You’re hardly an expert yourself.[/quote]

Really? want to test that theory?

125

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
LMAO - I really am enjoying this thread . . . never seen so many “experts” on Christianity in my life![/quote]

You’re hardly an expert yourself.[/quote]

Really? want to test that theory?[/quote]

Your post history does that for me.

126

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:
But I am still curious why you argue with any of those who are against it when you arent a Christian.[/quote]

They seek to trample the rights of those different to them.

Not really that hard to grasp, but I guess it’s easy to ignore.[/quote]

Oh, yeah . . . trampling all of those rights . . .we don’t let them drive, vote, run for office, make movies, buy clothes, sell goods, provide advice, own property, run in marathons, ride bycicles, travel across state lines, invest in mutual funds, chew gum, make burritos, raise cattle, grow crops, wear hats, go on reality tv shows, make music videos, form dance teams, wear pastels, be vegan, go to any outdoor concerts, have parades, play tennis, paddle canoes . . . .[/quote]

all =/= the

127

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
and gerbils . . .don’t forget the traumatized gerbils![/quote]

Do you actively seek to fail, or does it just come naturally to you?[/quote]

if you can make unsubstantiated claims then I can certainly introduce a little humor in the middle of your boarish comments

128

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
LMAO - I really am enjoying this thread . . . never seen so many “experts” on Christianity in my life![/quote]

You’re hardly an expert yourself.[/quote]

Really? want to test that theory?[/quote]

Your post history does that for me.[/quote]

My post history tests that theory for you? well, since you are obviously so much more clever than I, . . . . .bwahahaha . . couldn’t do it with a straight face

129

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
LMAO - I really am enjoying this thread . . . never seen so many “experts” on Christianity in my life![/quote]

You’re hardly an expert yourself.[/quote]

Really? want to test that theory?[/quote]

Your post history does that for me.[/quote]

My post history tests that theory for you? well, since you are obviously so much more clever than I, . . . . .bwahahaha . . couldn’t do it with a straight face[/quote]

So you are saying your face is gay?

130

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:
But I am still curious why you argue with any of those who are against it when you arent a Christian.[/quote]

They seek to trample the rights of those different to them.

Not really that hard to grasp, but I guess it’s easy to ignore.[/quote]

Oh, yeah . . . trampling all of those rights . . .we don’t let them drive, vote, run for office, make movies, buy clothes, sell goods, provide advice, own property, run in marathons, ride bycicles, travel across state lines, invest in mutual funds, chew gum, make burritos, raise cattle, grow crops, wear hats, go on reality tv shows, make music videos, form dance teams, wear pastels, be vegan, go to any outdoor concerts, have parades, play tennis, paddle canoes . . . .[/quote]

all =/= the[/quote]

You said " trample the rights" with “the rights” left unspecified and stated as a general all-inclusive adjective . . . ex I went there with the team, I got the hotdogs, the waitress brought the orders . . .

131

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
LMAO - I really am enjoying this thread . . . never seen so many “experts” on Christianity in my life![/quote]

You’re hardly an expert yourself.[/quote]

Really? want to test that theory?[/quote]

Your post history does that for me.[/quote]

My post history tests that theory for you? well, since you are obviously so much more clever than I, . . . . .bwahahaha . . couldn’t do it with a straight face[/quote]

So you are saying your face is gay?[/quote]

yep, some say it should have stayed in the closet . . .

132

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
LMAO - I really am enjoying this thread . . . never seen so many “experts” on Christianity in my life![/quote]

You’re hardly an expert yourself.[/quote]

Really? want to test that theory?[/quote]

Your post history does that for me.[/quote]

Was it my Syriac Orthodox background? My use of Koine Greek? My collection of writings of the early church fathers that I quoted from? my historical lineage of faith? The primary historical sources I use? I know, it was that I actual know what the Baptists Distinctives are!

133

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
According to the bible, men lusting for other men is a sin. Period.

But I think a healthy Christian would see that everyone sins, and being gay isn’t any worse than committing adultery even in your heart (lusting after other women), or sex outside of marriage.

I’ve never understood the logic in thinking homosexuality is some how a special sin that should be singled out.

How can a guy that sleeps around condemn others for homosexuality?[/quote]

I agree with this completely. The only issue I have is when homosexuals state,“God created me this way.” When you say God, I immediately go to the Bible, so sorry to you all that do not subscribe to the Bible.

There are studies out there, and people will need to do some digging. The average homosexual has 21 sexual partners in their lifetime, but the average Heterosexual has only 6. I am not saying either one is correct, because the bible is very clear that you should only have one sexual partner, and that is your husband or wife depending on your gender. Some might say otherwise, but this is the traditional interpretation of the Bible. Divorce is just as bad a sin as Homosexuality, Adultery, Lusting for a woman. All sins are the same, just do not say, “well since God made me this way it must be alright.”

134

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
Being homosexual is not a sin. Practicing homosexuality is. I don’t believe it’s neccessarily either a choice or naturally ocurring. I believe certain people have desires for the same sex. That can’t be taught. Nobody had to teach me or millions of other horny boys to like girls. Meanwhile, we don’t all act on our carnal desires. If we did, you would have a lot more pedophiles in the world. The thing that I don’t understand is how a society that can slam a priest for being a pedophile can think it’s perfectly OK for two men to have sex. Both are wrong because they are both perversions.[/quote]

…really? You don’t see a difference between consenting adults willingly engaging in sex, and the rape of a child by a man in a position of authority?
[/quote]

If you look at historical precedents, what would be considered pedophilia has been accepted in the past and still is in many societies around the world. Homosexuality has never been accepted. When I say pedophilia, I don’t just mean rape of a child. In many places girls at very young ages are married to older men. Rape is rape. It is wrong. I personally don’t believe in young girls being married either, but there are plenty of cultures that would disagree. I have yet to find one where homosexuality has been widely practiced and is openly acceptable.

135

[quote]MangoMan305 wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
Being homosexual is not a sin. Practicing homosexuality is. I don’t believe it’s neccessarily either a choice or naturally ocurring. I believe certain people have desires for the same sex. That can’t be taught. Nobody had to teach me or millions of other horny boys to like girls. Meanwhile, we don’t all act on our carnal desires. If we did, you would have a lot more pedophiles in the world. The thing that I don’t understand is how a society that can slam a priest for being a pedophile can think it’s perfectly OK for two men to have sex. Both are wrong because they are both perversions.[/quote]

You sir, are a tard.[/quote]

Wow, what a well thought out argument.

136

By the way, adultery is a sin the same as homosexuality. There is no ranking of sins. Sin is sin. I always find it amusing that many of the same politicians that want to blame all of societies ills on homosexual marriages typically don’t honor their own marriages. I’m guilty myself of divorce, lust, fornication, etc. I’m definitely not putting myself ahead of anybody.

137

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
Being homosexual is not a sin. Practicing homosexuality is. I don’t believe it’s neccessarily either a choice or naturally ocurring. I believe certain people have desires for the same sex. That can’t be taught. Nobody had to teach me or millions of other horny boys to like girls. Meanwhile, we don’t all act on our carnal desires. If we did, you would have a lot more pedophiles in the world. The thing that I don’t understand is how a society that can slam a priest for being a pedophile can think it’s perfectly OK for two men to have sex. Both are wrong because they are both perversions.[/quote]

…really? You don’t see a difference between consenting adults willingly engaging in sex, and the rape of a child by a man in a position of authority?
[/quote]

If you look at historical precedents, what would be considered pedophilia has been accepted in the past and still is in many societies around the world. Homosexuality has never been accepted. When I say pedophilia, I don’t just mean rape of a child. In many places girls at very young ages are married to older men. Rape is rape. It is wrong. I personally don’t believe in young girls being married either, but there are plenty of cultures that would disagree. I have yet to find one where homosexuality has been widely practiced and is openly acceptable.[/quote]

…would most of Europe be enough?

138

[quote]BBriere wrote:
By the way, adultery is a sin the same as homosexuality. There is no ranking of sins. Sin is sin. I always find it amusing that many of the same politicians that want to blame all of societies ills on homosexual marriages typically don’t honor their own marriages. I’m guilty myself of divorce, lust, fornication, etc. I’m definitely not putting myself ahead of anybody. [/quote]

Don’t forget shellfish!

139

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]farmerson12 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
If the I Ching isn’t completely right, then there can be no right or wrong.

If the Qu’ran isn’t completely right, then there can be no right or wrong.

See how the whole “If there is no God/if the bible is wrong then there can be no right or wrong” argument is fucking stupid?[/quote]

Good gosh this is the dumbest strawman ever. never mentioned the bible or Christianity or the christian god.[/quote]

Who did you think I meant when I said Sky Wizard, babe? [/quote]

Look man. You clearly dont believe in any type of god, let alone the Christian God.

[/quote]

Wrong. I’m a pantheist, I believe in god. Just not Sky Wizard.

[quote]

So why bother with this post? Lets just say we werent talking about homosexuality, and were about murder, adultery, or robbery. Are they wrong to you? They are wrong to society and government but why to you? And I myself(as a Christian) havent decided on the homosexuality dicussion but you did mention that homosexuals get alot of mistreatment. Really? Check the media. Every show, movie, and newscast welcome them with open arms like everyone else. And Im glad they do bc whether they are wrong or not, they are human. Also I will admit that I do use the word “gay” alot. Ex: If my fiancee asked me if i would wear a pink shirt, I would no. If she asked why? I would say bc it looks gay. Meaning that it looks feminine. Its meaning has developed so much that many people say it without directing in a bigotry way. [/quote]

But the topic isnt murder or robbery, it’s homosexuality. If you want to talk about those things, make threads about them.

And, yes, poor you, when you describe anything you don’t like as “gay”, people call you a bigot. Imagine that… just the other day someone asked if I wanted taco bell and I said “Nah I dont want any of that spic shit”… and they called me a racist! Go figure![/quote]

Ok you (somewhat) answered 2 of my questions/statements and I respect that. But I am still curious why you argue with any of those who are against it when you arent a Christian. If someone made a thread saying that they believe homesexuality is wrong due to specific articles or verses speak against it, Im not going to bother saying anything in that thread. Why? Because its not my religion therefore why would my assumption matter in their retrospect? Again, Im trying to have an mature conversation so leave the bs and sarcasm out. It makes this whole thread alot faster[/quote]

They have a right to voice their opinion – I wouldn’t dare dream of supporting the idea that they weren’t allowed to make that thread. But I have the same right, so why shouldn’t I speak up for people who are largely hated and discriminated against by bigots?

140

I make it a point to tell those who ask me if I agree with homosexuality that I am against the act, but not the person themselves. I’m also against smoking, but not against a smoker (I have many friends who smoke). God commands us to hate the sin but love the sinner.