[quote]lixy wrote:
I just wanted an insight into the websites you frequented. Hope you understand.[/quote]
“Frequented” is inacurate. I got an e-mail and was promted to find out more about it. And I did just that and started this thread.
[quote]derek wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
If you are quoting Islam’s holy book, PLEASE SPELL IT RIGHT!!!
QURAN, not Koran
Thank you
The Holy Koran
Arabic: 'al-qur’anu l-karīm
Other spellings: Qur’an, Quran, Qor’an
THE HOLY KORAN
The holy book of Islam. Also referred to in English as “Quran”, or “Qur’an”. The latter is the correct transliteration, but in this article we use the common “Koran”.
Yeah, brilliant catch, I had NO IDEA it was spelled all kinds of ways. DO me a favor, type “koran” in Google and see how many hits you get.
I’ll save you the time…
That’d be 11,700,000. We must all be illiterate huh?
[/quote]
I didn’t say you were illiterate. It is the correct way to spell it. Quran is the Arabic and proper way, Koran is the English way. Last time I checked, Quran was handed down in Arabic, therefore, that is the proper way to spell it.
Plus, the holy book next in Arabic text sitting next to me says Quran.
At least everyone is writing “Muslim” and not “Moslem”. Much appreciated.
[quote]derek wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Christians are believers. In fact, Christians worship the same Allah as Muslims and Jews.
That’s not at all what I see and here but since you say it’s true it must be. Nevermind that this is the ONLY time that has ever been said to me or that I’ve ever read.
[/quote]
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or are actually serious about that, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Christians and Jews are known as “people of the book” in Islam. That is, they received revelations from The One true God. Abraham, Moses and Jesus are highly regarded figures in the Islamic culture. Ahmadinejad emphasized that point in his letter to Bush last May. Lengthy but essential read for Americans to get a feeling of the position of Iran.
http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-22/0605094639235358.htm
I’m glad that your misconceptions and biases towards Islam turned out to be rather honest mistakes. It certainly mitigates the bleak future I envisaged.
[quote]derek wrote:
That’s not at all what I see and hear but since you say it’s true it must be. Nevermind that this is the ONLY time that has ever been said to me or that I’ve ever read.
[/quote]
Sarcasm?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
If you are quoting Islam’s holy book, PLEASE SPELL IT RIGHT!!!
QURAN, not Koran
Thank you
Why?
It has been spelled Koran in English for centuries, hasn’t it?
Isn’t it also spelled Q’uran?
Since English uses a different letter system I don’t see why one would be right and one would be wrong.[/quote]
Quran is the proper spelling. Yes it has been spelled Koran in English for centuries, but that is wrong. I don’t know why people spell it like that. I guess they have never read the cover of a Quran, and decided to make it easy on them, although it is incorrect.
Why is it you never see Bible and Torah spelled wrong? Same number of letters and syllables as Quran, and easy to say, yet non-English speaking people always spell it right. Why is it that Quran is spelled wrong?
[quote]derek wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Christians are believers. In fact, Christians worship the same Allah as Muslims and Jews.
That’s not at all what I see and hear but since you say it’s true it must be. Nevermind that this is the ONLY time that has ever been said to me or that I’ve ever read.
[/quote]
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS is correct. Christians, Muslims, and Jews all worship the same God, just in different ways. The word Allah is Arabic for God. It is all the same Oneness of God.
[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS is correct. Christians, Muslims, and Jews all worship the same God, just in different ways. The word Allah is Arabic for God. It is all the same Oneness of God.[/quote]
That’s great! I really think that’s fantastic. (NO sarcasm)
Now since you have your holy book next to you, can you re-translate this passage into Arabic (if that is the incorrect term I appologize)
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Just the Muslims here please, I need to talk with someone who know’s his stuff first-hand.
[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
Why is it you never see Bible and Torah spelled wrong? Same number of letters and syllables as Quran, and easy to say, yet non-English speaking people always spell it right. Why is it that Quran is spelled wrong?[/quote]
I have to think that the majority of people you run into in the U.S. and elsewhere see the word bible and Torah more often.
I know two things:
-
I don’t mis-spell it out of spite.
-
I would also dislike it being mis-spelled all the time if it were my book of faith.
And a question (again, I’m being serious). If Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the same entity, why the hell do we kill each other all the time over the differences in our beliefs?
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Christians/index.html
I’m going to do some digging here and see what’s up. Are there any more sites we can read about (as Christians) to see what mainstream Muslims are all about? Or maybe the above site is not such a great way to learn?
I’m very open to learning about this stuff.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
olderguy wrote:
What would the world think of us if we broadcast slitting the throats of Muslims, because they are Muslims, on the 6 o’clock news?
Why don’t you try using some faith that Muslims might actually oppose the actions of their radical brethren like you would of radical Christians who protest soldiers funerals, etc?
[/quote]
Give me a break. You’re going to compare broadcasts about killing Jews and slitting the throats of Kaffirs on TV to a Christian protest at a soldier’s funeral? Do you really think the US allows children to be taught anything like that in school. Talk about apples and oranges.
Here’s a link. Probably of Jewish origin but what the hell.
http://www.mideastnewswire.com/archive/me_rights_abuse_children.html#pa_kids_edu
[quote]olderguy wrote:
Give me a break. You’re going to compare broadcasts about killing Jews and slitting the throats of Kaffirs on TV to a Christian protest at a soldier’s funeral? Do you really think the US allows children to be taught anything like that in school. Talk about apples and oranges.
[/quote]
I don’t think my comparison is completely inaccurate. One nut-job is the same to me as any other regardless of their actions. My point was that most people do not agree with nut-jobs. The basis of my opinion comes from the belief that most people do not think “God hates fags”.
Comparing our schools, however, is inaccurate. We live in a secular democracy not an authoritarian theocracy. School curriculum is not dictated by literary dogma in the US. And we should be glad because when teaching out of highly elusive texts how do we decide to interpreted it?
[quote]olderguy wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
olderguy wrote:
What would the world think of us if we broadcast slitting the throats of Muslims, because they are Muslims, on the 6 o’clock news?[/quote]
Not only are you broadcasting them (ever watch O’Reilly?), you’re arguably already implementing them. Understand that from the point of view of most of the world, your invasion of Irak was pure aggression. A report last October by a team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimated up to 655000 Iraqis died because of it. That, coupled to the fact that Bush initially named the Afghan invasion a “crusade” gives the Arab/Muslim masses a peculiar view of your “war on terror”.
Need I remind you of what some of American say in the media?
“We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.” – Ann Coulter
Heck, even on this forum you can see people saying “when are we going to bomb these idiots” about Iranians. Did you ever hear me complain say that that was the opinion of all Americans?
[quote]derek wrote:
Now since you have your holy book next to you, can you re-translate this passage into Arabic (if that is the incorrect term I appologize)
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Just the Muslims here please, I need to talk with someone who know’s his stuff first-hand.
[/quote]
I extensively covered this issue with pookie on a thread named “Why I can’t be Muslim”.
The Quran isn’t a collection of commandements or anything of the sort. Context is crucial for interpreting the verses.
The one you refer to is 5:51 (not 5:54) and is (in)famous for being used by critics of Islam and Islamist fanatics alike. Here’s something that will hopefully shed some light on it;
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/friends.htm
[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
Why is it you never see Bible and Torah spelled wrong? Same number of letters and syllables as Quran, and easy to say, yet non-English speaking people always spell it right. Why is it that Quran is spelled wrong?[/quote]
Might have something to do with the English speaking world is mainly Judeo-Christian. Might also be because the other books have been around a few thousand years more than the Quran.
Who are you to say how people should spell it? The academy of English language? Try to focus on substance please.
http://www.submission.org/christians/friends.html
This seems pretty good as well.
[quote]lixy wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
Why is it you never see Bible and Torah spelled wrong? Same number of letters and syllables as Quran, and easy to say, yet non-English speaking people always spell it right. Why is it that Quran is spelled wrong?
Might have something to do with the English speaking world is mainly Judeo-Christian. Might also be because the other books have been around a few thousand years more than the Quran.
Who are you to say how people should spell it? The academy of English language? Try to focus on substance please.[/quote]
Why would it matter if the other books have been around a few thousand years more than the Quran? That doesn’t give anyone the right to misspell it. Timeframes have nothing to do with spelling.
[quote]derek wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS is correct. Christians, Muslims, and Jews all worship the same God, just in different ways. The word Allah is Arabic for God. It is all the same Oneness of God.
That’s great! I really think that’s fantastic. (NO sarcasm)
Now since you have your holy book next to you, can you re-translate this passage into Arabic (if that is the incorrect term I appologize)
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Just the Muslims here please, I need to talk with someone who know’s his stuff first-hand.
[/quote]
Derek,
I am Muslim, so I will give you my first-hand knowledge.
The quote you have is a correct translation from Arabic to English. It is actually 5:51, not 5:54. I think the purpose of the passage is that if you take them as friends, you might convert to their ways, and follow them, instead of Islam. And in Islam, anyone who denounces Islam will be in the hellfire on the Day of Judgment. So it means do not follow their beliefs. In the context, it means don’t take them as friends, because you might be tempted to follow their ways. If you don’t befriend them, then you don’t take that risk.
Personally, I have many Christian friends and a few Jewish friends. We are friends, but I don’t follow their ways or beliefs, except for their belief in the Oneness of God. They read the Bible and Torah, respectively, and I read the Quran.
[quote]derek wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
Why is it you never see Bible and Torah spelled wrong? Same number of letters and syllables as Quran, and easy to say, yet non-English speaking people always spell it right. Why is it that Quran is spelled wrong?
I have to think that the majority of people you run into in the U.S. and elsewhere see the word bible and Torah more often.
I know two things:
-
I don’t mis-spell it out of spite.
-
I would also dislike it being mis-spelled all the time if it were my book of faith.
And a question (again, I’m being serious). If Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the same entity, why the hell do we kill each other all the time over the differences in our beliefs?[/quote]
Everyone thinks that their way of thinking and beliefs are right, and they have to kill one another to prove it, which is wrong.
In Islam, radical Muslims believe they are fighting a Jihad (holy war), which is not the case. Jihad was fought during the Prophet Muhammad’s (peace be upon him) days, when he and his Sahabbah (followers) were trying to spread the word of Islam.
Radical Muslims feel there is a Jihad going on in today’s society, but that is not the case. They feel they have to kill people of all other religions because they feel it is a war.
[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
lixy wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
Why is it you never see Bible and Torah spelled wrong? Same number of letters and syllables as Quran, and easy to say, yet non-English speaking people always spell it right. Why is it that Quran is spelled wrong?
Might have something to do with the English speaking world is mainly Judeo-Christian. Might also be because the other books have been around a few thousand years more than the Quran.
Who are you to say how people should spell it? The academy of English language? Try to focus on substance please.
Why would it matter if the other books have been around a few thousand years more than the Quran? That doesn’t give anyone the right to misspell it. Timeframes have nothing to do with spelling.[/quote]
I still don’t understand how it is a misspelling. It is an English representation of an Arabic word using English lettering instead of Arabic.
Just because Qu’ran is the current trendy spelling does not make it correct.
It seems you just want to find a way to be offended.
[quote]derek wrote:
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Christians/index.html
I’m going to do some digging here and see what’s up. Are there any more sites we can read about (as Christians) to see what mainstream Muslims are all about? Or maybe the above site is not such a great way to learn?
I’m very open to learning about this stuff. [/quote]
very helpful and beneficial.
If you’d like, I can gather some brochures about Islam and mail them to you. Like I said before, I am Muslim, so feel free to ask me any questions regarding Islam.