Religion: Just a Form of Brain Washing?

Humans have an overwhelming need to “belong” to groups.

All through our lives we sign up to various social groups to give (often meaningless) value to our little lives in the hope of being high in some sort of Heirarchy.

We also feel the need to justify our existence and comfort ourselves that we are more than just highly evolved apes. That we are special.

Religion is a way for people to do this - its important to realise that most religious people are hypocrites who dont have the strength of will to truly live by their beliefs.

Well said…

[quote]mt006 wrote:
We also feel the need to justify our existence and comfort ourselves that we are more than just highly evolved apes. That we are special.
[/quote]

Okay, fine, you’re an ape then.

That’s true of most secularists too.

[quote]mt006 wrote:

its important to realise that most religious people are hypocrites who dont have the strength of will to truly live by their beliefs.
[/quote]

As a Christian, I’m well aware of this. I don’t believe I’m Christ himself, after all. I’ve sinned, do sin, and will sin. So, the fact that we too are sinners, aint exactly news.

[quote]mt006 wrote:
Religion is a way for people to do this - its important to realise that most religious people are hypocrites who dont have the strength of will to truly live by their beliefs.

[/quote]

Just because someone doesn’t follow their belief system, doesn’t mean you should knock the initial group as a whole.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
As a Christian, I’m well aware of this. I don’t believe I’m Christ himself, after all. I’ve sinned, do sin, and will sin. So, the fact that we too are sinners, aint exactly news.[/quote]

True words these.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Karma ftw.

As far as I can tell, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism are widely considered religions.

And personally, I don’t see any difference between the concept of karma and divine retribution as described in the monotheistic religions.[/quote]

There is a difference between karma and devine retribution. Devine retribution requires a devinity to inflict the retribution. If the appropriate devinity doesn’t exist or doesn’t care the retribution will never happen. So devine retribution may not be real.

Karma on the other hand does not require devine intervention. Karma is based upon the reality that what you put out into this world can come back to you. If you put evil out, evil can come back. If you put good out, good can come back.

I’ll give you an example of karma. There was a feral cat that lived around my house, during the winter he got hurt and couldn’t hunt. So I gave him food and kept him alive. In the spring I had a problem with pigeons that were kooing outside my bedroom window keeping me up at night and pooping on everything. Then one evening I came home from work to find a bloody mass of shredded pigeon feathers on the sidewalk and my furry little friend was nearby cleaning himself. So after I did a good thing for him and kept him alive, he did something good for me, he killed off all of those goddamned pigeons.

So Karma in this case was a very real thing. Divine retribution on the other hand was a tie. God took out the pigeons who were keeping me from getting sleep at night but the mosque in the center of town won it’s court case to have an amplified prayer call to wake everyone up at whatever ungodly hour they have the first head count. Assuming of course that god wasn’t punishing me for revelling in the death of the pigeons.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
I’ll give you an example of karma. There was a feral cat that lived around my house, during the winter he got hurt and couldn’t hunt. So I gave him food and kept him alive. In the spring I had a problem with pigeons that were kooing outside my bedroom window keeping me up at night and pooping on everything. Then one evening I came home from work to find a bloody mass of shredded pigeon feathers on the sidewalk and my furry little friend was nearby cleaning himself. So after I did a good thing for him and kept him alive, he did something good for me, he killed off all of those goddamned pigeons.[/quote]

Awesome.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Karma ftw.

As far as I can tell, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism are widely considered religions.

And personally, I don’t see any difference between the concept of karma and divine retribution as described in the monotheistic religions.

There is a difference between karma and devine retribution. Devine retribution requires a devinity to inflict the retribution. If the appropriate devinity doesn’t exist or doesn’t care the retribution will never happen. So devine retribution may not be real.

Karma on the other hand does not require devine intervention. Karma is based upon the reality that what you put out into this world can come back to you. If you put evil out, evil can come back. If you put good out, good can come back.
[/quote]

Through what system or mechanism does Karma function? It is not a “reality” based on current science. So on what basis do you know this to be true or be “reality”?

brainwashing

Main Entry: brain·wash·ing
Pronunciation: \�?br�?n-�?wo�?-shi�?, -�?wä-\
Function: noun
Etymology: translation of Chinese (Beijing) x�?n�?o
Date: 1950
1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship

#1 depends on your family and upbringing so that is a 50/50 but definitely #2

[quote]storey420 wrote:
brainwashing

Main Entry: brain·wash·ing
Pronunciation: \�?br�?n-�?wo�?-shi�?, -�?wä-\
Function: noun
Etymology: translation of Chinese (Beijing) x�?n�?o
Date: 1950
1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship

#1 depends on your family and upbringing so that is a 50/50 but definitely #2[/quote]

Yes, you’re right. The definition is entirely apt: secularists are often brainwashed. It’s a pity, really.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Sifu wrote:
lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Karma ftw.

As far as I can tell, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism are widely considered religions.

And personally, I don’t see any difference between the concept of karma and divine retribution as described in the monotheistic religions.

There is a difference between karma and devine retribution. Devine retribution requires a devinity to inflict the retribution. If the appropriate devinity doesn’t exist or doesn’t care the retribution will never happen. So devine retribution may not be real.

Karma on the other hand does not require devine intervention. Karma is based upon the reality that what you put out into this world can come back to you. If you put evil out, evil can come back. If you put good out, good can come back.

Through what system or mechanism does Karma function? It is not a “reality” based on current science. So on what basis do you know this to be true or be “reality”?

[/quote]

Piss off enough people and they kick your ass.

Eat enough shit and you won´t fit through your front door.

Masturbate and you go blind.

Karma.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
storey420 wrote:
brainwashing

Main Entry: brain·wash·ing
Pronunciation: \�?br�?n-�?wo�?-shi�?, -�?wä-\
Function: noun
Etymology: translation of Chinese (Beijing) x�?n�?o
Date: 1950
1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship

#1 depends on your family and upbringing so that is a 50/50 but definitely #2

Yes, you’re right. The definition is entirely apt: secularists are often brainwashed. It’s a pity, really.

[/quote]

It is more like brain building. Religious indoctrination usually starts at an age where children are genetically programmed to believe everything their parents tell them. Linked with feelings of love and fear towards their parents religious ideas become part of the brain, and not in those regions you can easily change later on by learning new things.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Sifu wrote:
lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Karma ftw.

As far as I can tell, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism are widely considered religions.

And personally, I don’t see any difference between the concept of karma and divine retribution as described in the monotheistic religions.

There is a difference between karma and devine retribution. Devine retribution requires a devinity to inflict the retribution. If the appropriate devinity doesn’t exist or doesn’t care the retribution will never happen. So devine retribution may not be real.

Karma on the other hand does not require devine intervention. Karma is based upon the reality that what you put out into this world can come back to you. If you put evil out, evil can come back. If you put good out, good can come back.

Through what system or mechanism does Karma function? It is not a “reality” based on current science. So on what basis do you know this to be true or be “reality”?
[/quote]

It is a case and effect relationship where our actions affect the environment around us. The concept of karma was created at a time where the majority of people lived their entire lives in area of about a 15 miles radius. Haven’t you ever heard of the saying “don’t shit on your own doorstep”?

[quote]orion wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:

Yes, you’re right. The definition is entirely apt: secularists are often brainwashed. It’s a pity, really.

It is more like brain building. Religious indoctrination usually starts at an age where children are genetically programmed to believe everything their parents tell them. Linked with feelings of love and fear towards their parents religious ideas become part of the brain, and not in those regions you can easily change later on by learning new things.

[/quote]

Children are brainwashed in all sorts of ways, nowadays in secular “religions.” Ever talk to a child about global warming and the environment? It’s pretty revealing.

Of course, brainwashing is not the same thing as actually teaching a child, is it?

One can teach a child about one’s religion as much as one can actually teach a child about the environment. Or, of course, you can brainwash them about either, or both.

By far and away, most of the people I know who are extremely intellectual, open minded, loving, tolerant, free, cultivated, and historically-aware, most of these people are invariably religious.

Conversely, most of the people I know who exemplify the opposite characteristics, often turn out to be secularists and - it just so happens - are often virulently anti-religious as well.

All-too-often, secularists are (perhaps unwittingly) captured by all sorts of ideologies & facile PC posturing that, for all intents & purposes, turn out to be precisely analogous to the pernicious attributes they cast upon religions.

[minor edits]

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
orion wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:

Yes, you’re right. The definition is entirely apt: secularists are often brainwashed. It’s a pity, really.

It is more like brain building. Religious indoctrination usually starts at an age where children are genetically programmed to believe everything their parents tell them. Linked with feelings of love and fear towards their parents religious ideas become part of the brain, and not in those regions you can easily change later on by learning new things.

Children are brainwashed in all sorts of ways, nowadays in secular “religions.” Ever talk to a child about global warming and the environment? It’s pretty revealing.

Of course, brainwashing is not the same thing as actually teaching a child, is it?

One can teach a child about one’s religion as much as one can actually teach a child about the environment. Or, of course, you can brainwash them about either, or both.

By far and away, most of the people I know who are extremely intellectual, open minded, loving, tolerant, free, cultivated, and historically-aware, most of these people are invariably religious.

Conversely, most of the people I know who exemplify the opposite characteristics, often turn out to be secularists and - it just so happens - are often virulently anti-religious as well.

All-too-often, secularists are (perhaps unwittingly) captured by all sorts of ideologies & facile PC posturing that, for all intents & purposes, turn out to be precisely analogous to the pernicious attributes they cast upon religions.

[minor edits]
[/quote]

Anecdotal evidence means…absolutely nothing.

For the record,I have found exactly the opposite.

I don’t bother to read the thread, as I’m sure it’d give me a headache. Grown ups talking seriously about mickey mouse shit. “The Geek shit” thread is for that kind of stuff.
For example, Thor is awesome, and I’m sure he is WAY stronger then Allah, but there is now way I’m forcing my girl to wear a carpet because Stan Lee says so.

Religion is a way to socially enforce things. It’s the sucessor of the alpha’s rulership over society. A way to control masses instead of a group.

Historically, necessary superstition.

Today, the antagonist of reason.

P.s. Lobo would be perhaps the most awesome god! All hail the last charnian!

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

Anecdotal evidence means…absolutely nothing.

For the record,I have found exactly the opposite.
[/quote]

I completely agree on both counts. The most judgmental people I know go to church every Sunday. They don’t like ‘the gays’ because they are ‘evolutionists’. But that’s just my personal experience.

katzenjammer wrote:

All-too-often, secularists are (perhaps unwittingly) captured by all sorts of ideologies & facile PC posturing that, for all intents & purposes, turn out to be precisely analogous to the pernicious attributes they cast upon religions.

[minor edits]
[/quote]

I’m not sure what you mean exactly by the term secularist. Scientist? Atheists? Hippys? It’s pretty easy to rail against a faceless, nondescript entity. If you want to have a meaningful discussion, you’ll have to be more specific. What beliefs are held by this group that constitute brainwashing?

[quote]mbm693 wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:

All-too-often, secularists are (perhaps unwittingly) captured by all sorts of ideologies & facile PC posturing that, for all intents & purposes, turn out to be precisely analogous to the pernicious attributes they cast upon religions.

[minor edits]

It’s pretty easy to rail against a faceless, nondescript entity. [/quote]

Well, that’s all this thread is. “The Religious” aren’t exactly a monolithic group, all sharing the same beliefs and outlook. But, it hasn’t stopped anyone here so far. And, it’s no surprise “secularists” would end up getting the same attention turned back on them.