How is this not great? Why shouldn’t they? Why Should one take heed a drinking law when considering family formation?
Does this ring a bell with you at all? Family versus drinking?!
Absolutely not!
Considering there is no common good, mostly to the fault of hedonists, there is no Absolutely shielding them from degeneracy.
If they don’t abide I will have to face the fact that my children joined the modern world order and likely wind up with no grandchildren or have my children not living up to their potential or social and mental pathologies. I’d be puzzled why they wouldn’t have joined in on my winner’s ideology.
I’m sure you’re a nice guy. I’ve been a nice guy and I too had multiple sex partners, tried weed, and drank here and there. What I Most importantly shouldn’t have done was had that casual sex considering it was completely irresponsible!
Many nice people don’t follow a code I’m
not fond of and which contributes to social issues. That’s why when people say “I’m a good person irrespective of religion” they are likely being truthful but it is irrelevant.
Are you sure? I’ve met some very stringent parents who pressure the absolute hell out of their kids to achieve academic goals that aren’t entirely realistic. In this parents mind adequately raised equates to “my child is a doctor or I’ve failed and my kid is a failure”.
Adequately raised might pertain to “good morals” (as it should) or it might pertain to an academic goal, physical prowess etc. Some parents will go to absolute extremes to assure their child is on the football team in high school. I was watching a documentary about doping in sport and a scandal involving and anti-aging center, apparently the doctor practicing had parents taking their 15-16 y/old kids to this center to acquire prescriptions for testosterone, Nandrolone etc.
I think the latter (basing the prospect of a child’s success on physical prowess or academic intellect) is an example of how a child shouldn’t be raised. Having good moral fundamentals should probably be the goal as opposed to how much the child can bench press
I think individualistic ideologies/world views are somewhat shaped by our individualistic life experiences + engrained neurology. Perhaps I’ll grow to think similarly to you as I get older, perhaps not (it seems unlikely, but you never know).
Generally I’m not fond of people forcing their engrained ideology upon others (after a certain point e.g when someone has developed the ability to think critically). I don’t eat kosher, no amount of pressure from my family was able to convince me to do so as I just didn’t see the point.
Adequately raised is open to intepretation… It just might not be the correct interpretation. Some parents definition of adequately raised might include religious belief, varying sociocultural normalities present, familial traditions and so on/so forth.
Does this sound good or having anything to do with child-raising fundamentals?
Dude, what is with you? We talk about marriage or pregnancy for women and you bring up drinking laws and then we talk about basic child raising and you bring up steroids and Tiger parenting.
An 18 to 22 year old, well adjusted women is capable of raising a child. Is there something missing from such a person? My grandma had my mom at 18 and absolutely nothing bad happened!
Absolutely not… Immense pressure obviously isn’t healthy, though encouraging a child to strive academically may be beneficial.
To highlight how ridiculous it is to expect women to conceive at the age of 18, you’re barely an adult at 18.
I wasn’t bringing up steroids, I was bringing up an example of what I perceive to be bad parenting, yet I’m sure these parents didn’t think they were doing anything wrong… it was a shitty analogy though. A better analogy of adequately raising a child being open to interpretation would be
level of religious influence
adherence to familial and/or sociocultural traditions
Yes, most 18-20 year old men/women are extremely immature. Many don’t have a stable job, place of residency (living with parents doesn’t count), haven’t been to or completed college yet etc.
These two variables are unrelated, I’ve never had unprotected sex.
Good point here. He had sex at 19 but said women shouldn’t be mothers at 18.
@unreal24278 what does this say? If they shouldn’t be mothers should you have not been a dad? After all, your sexual decision could have had you being one at 19 or 20.
And if you were immature you’d have no choice but to mature.
Btw, if a male has gone through puberty, looks like a man, which is done by 18, can reproduce, and can shoot a gun, he’s a man!
Agreed, this would be the case FOR ME… I can anecdotally give quite a few examples of teenage pregnancies resulting in broken homes. Some people still refuse to take responsibility for their actions even when the circumstance is as dire as pregnancy.
Not really, the majority of teenagers having protected sex don’t think about pregnancy as the odds of getting someone pregnant are incredibly minor. I wasn’t nineteen for my first time either, not that it’s important.
Depends on the attitude of the 18 y/old, if the parent resents the child they may fail to adequately nurture said child.
Marriage is a big deal and not to be taken lightly, just as pregnancy is a big deal and not to be taken lightly. People change dramatically over the years, how is an 18y/o to know who they wish to settle down with for the rest of their years.
I’m not sure if you’re using the term shoot a gun as a euphemism for reproduction. But in AuStRaLiA you have to fill out a ton of forms and take a fairly long firearm safety course if you wish to shoot a firearm (aside from a .22 rifle, which still requires quite a bit of paperwork) if you want to shoot a gun.
I agree after he changes position, then I agree with him.
That is what happened in that video. I posted it because it is an example of Peterson being schooled. He starts with one position, modifies it after it is pointed out that it was silly, then uses a bizarre definition of a spiritual experience so that he can save face.
I encourage you to read through the comments on YouTube. My interpretation of the event is closer at to consensus of many than yours. Not that the group is always correct, but on something like “what is this guy talking about”, I don’t think it is to crazy to go with.
If that’s what you meant I’ll accept it.
The latter is true. It is IMO a definition change when you change the meaning of a word to mean something different than what is normally accepted.
Anyways, this example was just showing an example of him being at best sloppy. I am more curious about the other topics as they are of more interest to me.
Why are you always bringing up undesirable outcomes? Do you think we should all aim to lose?! It seems like dysfunctional results are on your mind quite a bit, and I don’t say that as an insult.
I wasn’t bringing up the undesired outcome of a resentful woman raising a kid. I asked you what task a sane 18 year old woman can’t do!
I don’t see this as insulting, it’s far from the first time I’ve been asked this. Statistically speaking I don’t think the outcomes are typically all that positive (on average) for teenage pregnancies/pregnancy in early 20’s. Perhaps this relates to our engrained sociocultural norms/because most teenage pregnancies are spontaneous, but women aren’t particuarly happy in orthodox jewish neighborhoods either.
It’s difficult to ascertain as to why my mindset is so pessimistic. It think it has more or less to do with my life experiences (what little I’ve seen at this point) and some of the medical ailments I’ve procured along the way. It should be noted my medical history has nothing to do with choices made, rather chronic pain and other pathology I’d rather not talk about is there by luck of the draw.
I suppose my outlook on the world is mediated by my own dysfunction, I guess it isn’t remotely fair for me to assume everyone should/is going to have a similarly negative outcome.
Get an abortion or if that option isn’t feasible and/or they wish to raise the child I suppose they’d raise it and struggle through college.
There are outliers, so “can’t do” is going to be tough, but how many 18 y/o women have a decent job to earn money needed to support a child? There are some, but very few.
Considering I’m talking about within context of a marriage there would be a working husband and her parents, brothers, sisters, in-laws, etc. who can help.
We can actually list tasks and see just how much unique skill is involved:
Bathing
Feeding
Cleaning
Medical appointments
Reading books
Arts and crafts
Playing games
Talking (hard stuff)
Clothing
Do you believe in the notion of traditional gender constructs/gender roles that designate the woman’s primary role is to be raising her offspring?
I’m curious as you’ve specified the male would be the primary provider within the family. As times have progressed societal paridigms have shifted away from your proposed ideal. What if the roles were reversed?
In your opinion is there anything intrinsically wrong with the father nurturing the child at home whilst the woman brings in funds required for sustainability?
If I may ask, are you against premarital sex as a whole or are you primarily against casual promiscuity?
I don’t feel like going into this, it’s well known women aren’t treated particuarly well in Haredi neighborhoods, it’s not particularly a subject I’m open to debating.
There are quite a few documentaries on netflix you can watch regarding toxic societal constructs present within orthodox neighborhoods, I’d start with “one of us”.
It should be noted ultra orthodox judaism is NOT representative of judaism as a whole, that would be akin to stating jihadism is representative of Islam. Almost everything has a dark side when we start talking about extremes.
I mean we already know young men and women can do it. It was very common in recent history (my grandma had her first kid at 19-20).
IMO, I think society has changed a bit, and in general many people want a different life than their grandparents. Many women don’t want to stay at home, not be able to drive (both my grandmas got their drivers license in their 50s), and don’t want to pop out 5 kids.
I guess if you don’t want to do something that is seen as traditional, why do it?
Not wrong. However I think generally women are far better equipped to stay at home than men are. I know I cannot be a better stay at home parent than my wife. I simply can’t.
My wife attends work two days per week, and does some other work as requested by clients.
There is some evidence that women out earning their men introduces problems. I once read an article about female CEO’s divorcing shortly after acquiring the position.
If some men want to go for careerists, they can and obviously do. It obviously isn’t for me.
I forgot to answer this part. The answer is yes. My wife thinks the same. What other role could possibly measure up?
I apologize. I simply cannot wrap my head around your comparisons between LIFE (strong family ties, child raising obligation, starting a family, birth!) and drinking or other stuff you mentioned.
You mentioned getting bored as a justifiable reason for divorce when the outcomes of divorce can be terrible and in many cases left many men of modest means broke as all hell!
