Reducing Unemployment

[0mar]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]0mar wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Question, why is everyone so emotionally involved of reducing unemployment?
[/quote]

The government is a giant ponzi scheme. As long as enough people are paying into it, the system stays propped up. When the flow of money stems a bit, the entire system is threatened. Secondly, employment is more than just a job, it’s also one of the few ways you can get health insurance. Moreover, if you have any sort of pre-existing condition, you are pretty much fucked without an employer-sponsored health plan. You either flat-out do not qualify or will be charged exorbitant amounts of money. Finally, the social services of the government are simply not equipped to deal with 8%+ unemployment.
[/quote]

Tell me which hospital denies services to someone who needs it? And, just contact your local health department and they’ll get raped in the ass for violating regulations.

[quote]

Wouldn’t it be easier to stop looking at the problem and just come up with a solution that is slightly tiresome but rewarding for everyone involved, starting up a business??

It’s not that easy to simply start a business. Remember, most businesses fail. They also require a significant capital investment. Business is a zero-sum game. If I open a hardware store and so do my next 5 neighbors, something is going to give. In the end, the majority of people will have to be cogs in the machine and not drivers of the machine.[/quote]

Lawl, business is not a zero-sum game. And second, I stated above I have started up businesses before it is very easy to start up a business, but some people just aren’t cut from the same cloth.[/quote]

The emergency room is not, in the slightest bit, a means of primary care. You can’t go to the emergency room for a checkup. Secondly, the cost of healthcare, out of pocket, is so high, it’s out of reach for everyone but those who earn in the top 5%. A single MRI costs like 10 grand. Health insurance, for the vast majority of Americans, is only affordable through employer coverage.

Secondly, business is a zero-sum game. Not everyone can have a successful small business. It’s as simple as that. If you open a liquor store, you are taking away revenue from another business, small or otherwise. The 2,000 dollars/day you bring it is someone else’s sales. Sure, you can exploit a small niche, but the risk:reward is extremely lopsided. For everyone single business that makes it, there are probably a dozen that tried and failed. It’s easy to start up a business, making that business actually generate money is another thing.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]thefederalist wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
It does not take much effort to start up a business
[/quote]

lol wut?
[/quote]

It wasn’t hard when I did it.[/quote]

What is the business?[/quote]

500 Acre farm, read above. And if you also read, I was not talking about the people unemployed, I was talking about those in office and the people in the media complaining, instead of starting up a business.[/quote]

Where is the ranch (northern Oklahoma)? You can pm me if you want.[/quote]

I believe it is around Pawhuska, OK.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]0mar wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]0mar wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Question, why is everyone so emotionally involved of reducing unemployment?
[/quote]

The government is a giant ponzi scheme. As long as enough people are paying into it, the system stays propped up. When the flow of money stems a bit, the entire system is threatened. Secondly, employment is more than just a job, it’s also one of the few ways you can get health insurance. Moreover, if you have any sort of pre-existing condition, you are pretty much fucked without an employer-sponsored health plan. You either flat-out do not qualify or will be charged exorbitant amounts of money. Finally, the social services of the government are simply not equipped to deal with 8%+ unemployment.
[/quote]

Tell me which hospital denies services to someone who needs it? And, just contact your local health department and they’ll get raped in the ass for violating regulations.

Wouldn’t it be easier to stop looking at the problem and just come up with a solution that is slightly tiresome but rewarding for everyone involved, starting up a business??

It’s not that easy to simply start a business. Remember, most businesses fail. They also require a significant capital investment. Business is a zero-sum game. If I open a hardware store and so do my next 5 neighbors, something is going to give. In the end, the majority of people will have to be cogs in the machine and not drivers of the machine.[/quote]

Lawl, business is not a zero-sum game. And second, I stated above I have started up businesses before it is very easy to start up a business, but some people just aren’t cut from the same cloth.[/quote]

The emergency room is not, in the slightest bit, a means of primary care. You can’t go to the emergency room for a checkup. Secondly, the cost of healthcare, out of pocket, is so high, it’s out of reach for everyone but those who earn in the top 5%. A single MRI costs like 10 grand. Health insurance, for the vast majority of Americans, is only affordable through employer coverage.

Secondly, business is a zero-sum game. Not everyone can have a successful small business. It’s as simple as that. If you open a liquor store, you are taking away revenue from another business, small or otherwise. The 2,000 dollars/day you bring it is someone else’s sales. Sure, you can exploit a small niche, but the risk:reward is extremely lopsided. For everyone single business that makes it, there are probably a dozen that tried and failed. It’s easy to start up a business, making that business actually generate money is another thing.

That is not the definition or the practicality of a zero-sum game. Just because someone is not interested in buying your product does not a game become zero-sum.

[Scrotus]

Get a job dirtbag!!!

There, i got you outta that jam.

[The_Mage]

[quote] 0mar wrote:

The emergency room is not, in the slightest bit, a means of primary care. You can’t go to the emergency room for a checkup. [/quote]

I used to get a free annual checkup when I was selling plasma. But honestly a checkup is not that expensive. If a guy right out of high school can afford a $500 a month payment for his brand new car, I am fairly certain most people can afford a simple checkup. Hell, the last couple of years our deductible was $2000, and my wife saw the doctor plenty of times before ever hitting that.

I wish they didn’t drop that coverage, and am actually unhappy that our deductible is now only $1,250, even though we know we would hit the $2,000 for my wife.

[quote]

Secondly, the cost of healthcare, out of pocket, is so high, it’s out of reach for everyone but those who earn in the top 5%. A single MRI costs like 10 grand. Health insurance, for the vast majority of Americans, is only affordable through employer coverage.[/quote]

Have you ever heard of catastrophic coverage? This is a type of insurance that does not kick in until you hit $5,000 to $10,000 in medical bills. It costs about a fifth of what full insurance costs.

I just did a search at ehealthinsurance.com, and found a whole bunch of insurance options. Anything from $106.33 for a $10K deductible plan, to as high as $713.83. (There is only the 2 of us.) They have some decent plans in the $300 range. I found one I would actually think of accepting from Blue Cross for $233 a month.

The point is they exist, and there are affordable ones out there if you are not too lazy to look.

[quote]
Secondly, business is a zero-sum game.[/quote]

Sorry but this is just shows your ignorance on the issue. Once something is paid for, that money doesn’t suddenly vanish into the aether. That money is in turn spent, or invested elsewhere, where it is again spent or invested.

A single dollar can be spent thousands of times, creating thousands of dollars of transactions, but it is still only a dollar.

[quote]
Not everyone can have a successful small business. It’s as simple as that.[/quote]

Absolutely right. In fact most of the people who have started successful businesses have failed at business about 3 times before? It is like they didn’t give up until they succeeded, and they used those experiences to learn from to make the next business successful.

This is unlike you who has already failed before even starting. This is the sad commentary on our existence.

By the way just because a business fails does not mean the person lost money at it, or never turned a profit. I know a guy who shut his business down just because he wanted to make more money. It was the statistical failure, but he simply closed the doors and accepted a management position that paid more.

If you open a liquor store, you are taking away revenue from another business, small or otherwise. The 2,000 dollars/day you bring it is someone else’s sales.

This is called competition. If you are pulling customers away from the competition, then you are doing something to bring them in to your store. You might be providing a lower price, better service, a better location, or many other factors. I cannot see what is wrong with this. What you are doing is actually forcing the other business to improve, resulting in benefits for the consumer.

Then there are the business owners who tried to get me into lawn mowing. They told me there was more business out there then they could handle, and all I needed to do was put a simple ad in the paper, and I would have plenty of customers.

Maybe things have changed since then, but that does not sound like me taking business away from people.

But then again, if you apply for a job, are you not in effect taking that job from another potential employee? By that logic you should not be trying to find a job.

Sure, you can exploit a small niche, but the risk:reward is extremely lopsided. For everyone single business that makes it, there are probably a dozen that tried and failed. It’s easy to start up a business, making that business actually generate money is another thing.

So many people are unwilling to do what’s necessary to succeed, but they have no problem bitching about those that did. And there is no lack of people willing to take advantage of those people.

Again if your not willing to make an effort to get anywhere, what right do you have to complain about where you are?

**EDIT: Anyone know why the quotes are not working?

Fixed, thanx.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]The Mage wrote:

[quote] 0mar wrote:

The emergency room is not, in the slightest bit, a means of primary care. You can’t go to the emergency room for a checkup. [/quote]

I used to get a free annual checkup when I was selling plasma. But honestly a checkup is not that expensive. If a guy right out of high school can afford a $500 a month payment for his brand new car, I am fairly certain most people can afford a simple checkup. Hell, the last couple of years our deductible was $2000, and my wife saw the doctor plenty of times before ever hitting that.

I wish they didn’t drop that coverage, and am actually unhappy that our deductible is now only $1,250, even though we know we would hit the $2,000 for my wife.

[quote]

Secondly, the cost of healthcare, out of pocket, is so high, it’s out of reach for everyone but those who earn in the top 5%. A single MRI costs like 10 grand. Health insurance, for the vast majority of Americans, is only affordable through employer coverage.[/quote]

Have you ever heard of catastrophic coverage? This is a type of insurance that does not kick in until you hit $5,000 to $10,000 in medical bills. It costs about a fifth of what full insurance costs.

I just did a search at ehealthinsurance.com, and found a whole bunch of insurance options. Anything from $106.33 for a $10K deductible plan, to as high as $713.83. (There is only the 2 of us.) They have some decent plans in the $300 range. I found one I would actually think of accepting from Blue Cross for $233 a month.

The point is they exist, and there are affordable ones out there if you are not too lazy to look.

[quote]
Secondly, business is a zero-sum game.[/quote]

Sorry but this is just shows your ignorance on the issue. Once something is paid for, that money doesn’t suddenly vanish into the aether. That money is in turn spent, or invested elsewhere, where it is again spent or invested.

A single dollar can be spent thousands of times, creating thousands of dollars of transactions, but it is still only a dollar.

[quote]
Not everyone can have a successful small business. It’s as simple as that.[/quote]

Absolutely right. In fact most of the people who have started successful businesses have failed at business about 3 times before? It is like they didn’t give up until they succeeded, and they used those experiences to learn from to make the next business successful.

This is unlike you who has already failed before even starting. This is the sad commentary on our existence.

By the way just because a business fails does not mean the person lost money at it, or never turned a profit. I know a guy who shut his business down just because he wanted to make more money. It was the statistical failure, but he simply closed the doors and accepted a management position that paid more.

If you open a liquor store, you are taking away revenue from another business, small or otherwise. The 2,000 dollars/day you bring it is someone else’s sales.

This is called competition. If you are pulling customers away from the competition, then you are doing something to bring them in to your store. You might be providing a lower price, better service, a better location, or many other factors. I cannot see what is wrong with this. What you are doing is actually forcing the other business to improve, resulting in benefits for the consumer.

Then there are the business owners who tried to get me into lawn mowing. They told me there was more business out there then they could handle, and all I needed to do was put a simple ad in the paper, and I would have plenty of customers.

Maybe things have changed since then, but that does not sound like me taking business away from people.

But then again, if you apply for a job, are you not in effect taking that job from another potential employee? By that logic you should not be trying to find a job.

Sure, you can exploit a small niche, but the risk:reward is extremely lopsided. For everyone single business that makes it, there are probably a dozen that tried and failed. It’s easy to start up a business, making that business actually generate money is another thing.

So many people are unwilling to do what’s necessary to succeed, but they have no problem bitching about those that did. And there is no lack of people willing to take advantage of those people.

Again if your not willing to make an effort to get anywhere, what right do you have to complain about where you are?

**EDIT: Anyone know why the quotes are not working?[/quote]

You are made a when it should have been a

[Dustin]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]thefederalist wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
It does not take much effort to start up a business
[/quote]

lol wut?
[/quote]

It wasn’t hard when I did it.[/quote]

What is the business?[/quote]

500 Acre farm, read above. And if you also read, I was not talking about the people unemployed, I was talking about those in office and the people in the media complaining, instead of starting up a business.[/quote]

Where is the ranch (northern Oklahoma)? You can pm me if you want.[/quote]

I believe it is around Pawhuska, OK.[/quote]

That’s not too far from where I live.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]thefederalist wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
It does not take much effort to start up a business
[/quote]

lol wut?
[/quote]

It wasn’t hard when I did it.[/quote]

What is the business?[/quote]

500 Acre farm, read above. And if you also read, I was not talking about the people unemployed, I was talking about those in office and the people in the media complaining, instead of starting up a business.[/quote]

Where is the ranch (northern Oklahoma)? You can pm me if you want.[/quote]

I believe it is around Pawhuska, OK.[/quote]

That’s not too far from where I live.
[/quote]

Yeah, the ranch itself is in the middle of no where. I do not live on the ranch, though as I am still going to school.

[clip11]

[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Wouldn’t it be easier to stop looking at the problem and just come up with a solution that is slightly tiresome but rewarding for everyone involved, starting up a business??

[/quote]

What % of the currently unemployed do you think have the capital required to start a small business…[/quote]

Yes. It takes money to start a business. Believe me, i’ve looked. If I didnt have to come up with $100,000+ for everything, I would have my own business.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Wouldn’t it be easier to stop looking at the problem and just come up with a solution that is slightly tiresome but rewarding for everyone involved, starting up a business??

[/quote]

What % of the currently unemployed do you think have the capital required to start a small business…[/quote]

Yes. It takes money to start a business. Believe me, i’ve looked. If I didnt have to come up with $100,000+ for everything, I would have my own business.[/quote]

That’s is ridiculous, I started up my first business with less that $200.

[The_Mage]

Mine cost $1K. Though I could have started it for less. Actually closer to $1,100, because I initially spent $80, but then I had the chance to take over some business from another person for $1G so I did. (Okay, I can’t decide if I want to use K or G.)

Oh, does it help that I borrowed the grand from a relative, and paid it back in 3 months? I had paid off a ton of debt right before this, and it left me a little tight. I simply quit paying toward my debt until the money was paid back in 3 months.

Plus about a third of it was paid back from business revenue. So technically I started with nothing down, and then only paid $600 out of my own pocket for it.

But now I have stockpiled over $1G (K) in the business account, so I could do it again, and double my revenue. (Actually I am looking at largest accounts right now.)

People have this crazy idea that they need to start some big conglomeration, when they can just do something on the side to make a little extra cash. Then do it again, and again, and again. It can be all the same, or even different businesses, or sources of income.

My goal is to be netting a $1K (G) a month by the end of the year. And even then I can easily do it in my spare time.

Then as I expand more, I will be cutting out time at work until I am part time, while stockpiling cash for the next step in my investing plan.

[666Rich]

Well, I can offer a success story at least. I graduated from college with 2 degrees (econ and geology) good resume, everything, in April 09. Things were tough, I did not have work other than waiting tables until February of this year. I applied for jobs and went on interviews constantly. I ended up taking a job 13 dollars an hour that I drive 82 miles round trip for. I am up at 630 to workout, go to work, home at 8pm. It sucked. But when I came home at night I would apply for more jobs as I felt I was better than the job I was at.

This past week I landed a position that is an ideal fit for my skills and 45k a year, not bad at 24. I went on interviews even during my lunch break or before work at my present job to make this happen. My little free time available I read books on real estate investing ( It also helped I worked at an appraisal firm). My plan is to use the capital I am going to make at my new job + what I have saved up to start buying rental properties. It wasnt easy, and it wont be easy, but I am determined to make a ton of money and not have to rely on medicare/ss, and all that other garbage. If anyone here currently does property investing and wants to shoot me some info, a PM would be awsome.

It is also good to see what people have done on this site such as starting the cattle feed business or others, hustling to make something out of this situation. I see too many complacent people where I currently work, that I know, that I read about. Yes, times are tough, but theres always a way.

Id be interested in another thread seeing what sort of businesses fellow T-Nationers have started

[Otep]

I started a business as a painting contractor to put myself through college. I worked during the spring and summer. Total fixed costs were around $1,000, which I had saved up from high school where I mowed lawns on the weekends and summer.

I only pulled down about 12k each summer, but between that and scholarship money, I was pretty much set.

It does not take $100k to start a business.

Okay, maybe if you’re in Detroit.

[Brother_Chris]

Hell you can be an average door to door salesman and make 20k as a private contractor in a summer. If you are good, 90k.

[The_Mage]

Okay, you want to make some serious money? Get a truck with a snow blade on the front, and a snow blower, and you would be shocked at how much you can make in a night.

Admittedly you don’t know when it will snow, and will have to be ready to work all night with little notice. Plus this may not work in Hawaii.

[Brother_Chris]

Buy a bunch of two hundred dollar candy machines and put them in bars, ROI on those things are high if you put them in the right spots, sometimes up to 20% a night. Pin ball machines, great stuff there, specially in older style barbershops. If you know how to rig the machine, you can get more money out of it.

[milod]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Wouldn’t it be easier to stop looking at the problem and just come up with a solution that is slightly tiresome but rewarding for everyone involved, starting up a business??

[/quote]

What % of the currently unemployed do you think have the capital required to start a small business…[/quote]

I am talking about 100% of pundits, politicians, &c. that say that we need to fix unemployment. It does not take much effort to start up a business, but it sure seems to take a lot of effort to ‘fix’ unemployment from these guys.[/quote]

How many “pundits, politicians, etc.” do you think there are in this country? By your own statistics there are more than fifteen million people in need of jobs. If each member of congress hired one thousand additional staffers, there would only be… about fifteen million people still out of work.

[The_Mage]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Buy a bunch of two hundred dollar candy machines and put them in bars, ROI on those things are high if you put them in the right spots, sometimes up to 20% a night. Pin ball machines, great stuff there, specially in older style barbershops. If you know how to rig the machine, you can get more money out of it.[/quote]

Shhhh. That’s what I’m doing. Don’t let the cat out of the bag.

Although I didn’t pay $200 for my first machines. (Average $55 each.) I don’t know about 20% in one night though. But you can easily make back your money in less then a year. Sometimes you can find deals where you make back your money in just a couple of months.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]The Mage wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Buy a bunch of two hundred dollar candy machines and put them in bars, ROI on those things are high if you put them in the right spots, sometimes up to 20% a night. Pin ball machines, great stuff there, specially in older style barbershops. If you know how to rig the machine, you can get more money out of it.[/quote]

Shhhh. That’s what I’m doing. Don’t let the cat out of the bag.

Although I didn’t pay $200 for my first machines. (Average $55 each.) I don’t know about 20% in one night though. But you can easily make back your money in less then a year. Sometimes you can find deals where you make back your money in just a couple of months.[/quote]

My bad, 10% of original investment a night. 20 Bucks a night, on busy nights. Some are more like $5 a night, which still comes out to 780% ROI in a year.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]milod wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Wouldn’t it be easier to stop looking at the problem and just come up with a solution that is slightly tiresome but rewarding for everyone involved, starting up a business??

[/quote]

What % of the currently unemployed do you think have the capital required to start a small business…[/quote]

I am talking about 100% of pundits, politicians, &c. that say that we need to fix unemployment. It does not take much effort to start up a business, but it sure seems to take a lot of effort to ‘fix’ unemployment from these guys.[/quote]

How many “pundits, politicians, etc.” do you think there are in this country? By your own statistics there are more than fifteen million people in need of jobs. If each member of congress hired one thousand additional staffers, there would only be… about fifteen million people still out of work.
[/quote]

Your reading comprehension is a little on the low side, so I will take it easy. I said, “start up a business” not hire staffers for their bureaucratic office. If you knew my view points, hiring more staffers would not be an option, plus it is not under “start up a business.”

Let me help you understand what I mean by giving you a more detailed list of people who are complaining but do nothing.

Local politicians
State politicians
Federal politicians
Local Newspapers Reporters
State Newspapers Reporters
National Newspapers Reporters
Local TV Pundits
State TV Pundits
National TV Pundits
Elementary Teachers
Junior High Teachers
College Teachers
University Teachers
Grad Teachers
School Administrators
Federal Reserve Officials
Regular people who talk about the Government fixing this all, without taking responsibility.

I’m sure out of all those people, if they really cared about the unemployment they could make a large dent in it.