I’m going to sit back and watch the food Nazi’s come out in force…
[quote]thomas.galvin wrote:
That’s funny, because I kind of define “clean meal” as “anything not containing pizza.”[/quote]
Great arguent. I take it you were a debating champion and a philosophy major in college.
[quote]proteus189 wrote:
I think most people on T-Nation will agree that there is a difference between raw sugar and high fructose corn syrup. However, both are listed under the micro-nutrient sugar.[/quote]
You seem like a nice kid, so I’ll spare you my usual snark. Still… sugar is not a micronutriet.
Macronutrients:
Micronutrients:
I don’t think he said it was, I think his point was that some of the franken-foods (like High fructose corn syrup) can’t be erased by adding ‘clean’ foods on top of them.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Let me give an example to clarify. For lunch, I ate the following:
6 oz. grass-fed flank steak
2 cups broccolli
1/2 thin crust pizza
This gives me
800 calories
36 gms fat
30 gms carbs
60 gms protein
With enough fiber and fat to lower the GI.
Why is this not clean? Shouldn’t we look at the overall macronutriet and micronutriet profile of the meal (as well as the GI and acidity) rather than simply say, “No clean meal can contain x-food?”[/quote]
I agree and that meal does look clean if you goals are lean mass gain. If you goals are fat loss, I would think there could be better choices made. Plus, I find it odd that a half a pizza, added to the beef, would only come out to 36g of fat. (you might want to recheck your numbers as they just don’t add up- hint your macros come out to only 684 calories, not 800) What kind of pizza is it and what size- half a large is much more than half a small.
Your examples you are using are leaning towards your point, rather than being objective. Replace the “pizza” in your equation with a bowl of ice cream, or a snickers bar, or a Big Mac. The fat, protein, and carb content alone is not enough to make it clean, it also has to have the correct insulin response for the time of day you choose, and it has to fit in with your specific goals.
I say, and have always said (you can readthrough my posts if you want, as I’ve said this before) everything can be a part of a balanced diet in moderation, so I agree with you on that.
Clean meals mean different things to everyone, so redefining it will be as difficult as it is to understand what the current meaning is.
I was asking for discussion on this point: Is it possible to have a “clean” meal that contains otherwise “non-clean” foods.
A couple of guys were able to figure that out. The rest want to dispense with whatever knowledge they’ve learn from the Internet; or to to assert, without factual support, “No.”
I’m very disappointed that few on this forum can discuss a subject that has not previously been discussed in some article. That certainly seems to be the case here.
It makes me wonder how many guys do any thinking on their own.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Plus, I find it odd that a half a pizza, added to the beef, would only come out to 36g of fat.[/quote]
It’s an artisan pizza from Trader Joe’s. Go buy one and read the label.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Roy, I read a couple of your previous posts: All evidence an ignorance of basic nutrition. E.g., you wrote: “My previous protein had BCAAs in it, so I really never bothered supplementing with them. This new protein, however, has none.”
[/quote]
I meant, no added/advertised large amounts.
I knew that. My question was regarding larger doses and insulin rushes. If you couldn’t read that from my post, chances are you know very little.
Did I hurt your feelings fatty? I’m sorry. I’ll let you get back to the “How can I eat shit foods while feeling good about myself” thread.
Adding healthy fats/fiber/protein does not make a meal “clean”. If I were to add those things to an ice cream cone. I would have a yucky tasting ice cream cone with protein, alot of fat, some fiber, and alot of suger that would digest slightly slower because of the fiber.
Another failed attempt at justifying high bodyfat.
I’m finding this topic a very interesting read. A “clean” diet is tossed around frequently here, but I don’t know if there really is a universal agreement as to what defines “clean” in this context. Obviously it does not simply mean healthy, because if that were true we wouldn’t need a 2nd word to say the same thing. Does it mean a diet that promotes strength/physique goals? If so, that would even be ever changing depending on what point of your training you are at. I guess bottom line is I have not yet come to a conclusion on your premise CL, but you definitely have me thinking.
Eating clean has a different definition for everyone…(x) amount of fats, carbs, protein.
[quote]superdad4 wrote:
I’m finding this topic a very interesting read. A “clean” diet is tossed around frequently here, but I don’t know if there really is a universal agreement as to what defines “clean” in this context. Obviously it does not simply mean healthy, because if that were true we wouldn’t need a 2nd word to say the same thing. Does it mean a diet that promotes strength/physique goals? If so, that would even be ever changing depending on what point of your training you are at. I guess bottom line is I have not yet come to a conclusion on your premise CL, but you definitely have me thinking.[/quote]
Nice points, I’d like to know how some of these people define “clean” and what basis they used to come to that conclusion.
[quote]Brett Tucek wrote:
I mixed a scoop of protein powder in my Coke today.[/quote]
I did the same, my nose is still stinging.
What are you defining as ‘clean’? If the focus is on health and what particular foods do to your body, I don’t think you can completely negate adverse effects of something like trans fat by adding lean protein, unsaturated fats, and fiber to a meal. But the more healthy foods you eat, and the smaller proportion of ones that have detrimental effects on health, the better off you’ll be.
From a body composition perspective, adding fiber, fat, and protein to a sugary item say to make a meal will decrease the insulin spike. The body will still not treat the meal exactly the same way as if there had been no ‘non-clean’ element. But any adverse effects on body composition such as tendency to promote fat gain will be greatly minimized.
I think your focus in asking the question is a bit off, though. You can’t make a ‘clean’ meal by adding predominant amounts of clean food to an unclean food. Though I guess it depends on what you define as clean. I define ‘clean’ as wholly natural and unprocessed [things like meat, poultry, fruits, veggies, oats, olives, nuts]. I would not consider a meal clean if it had any processed food in it. But that doesn’t mean there are somehow disastrous consequences to eating it.
‘Clean’ is just terminology and a buzzword. The focus of the inquiry should be on the impact of eating a meal of predominately, natural, unprocessed foods with some small amount of ‘junky’, processed food.
Eating this way will not damage your health. And I believe it has minimal, negative impact on body composition outside of strict dieting phases. And that’s really the purpose behind eating clean or mostly clean anyhow-to promote good health and body composition.
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
superdad4 wrote:
I’m finding this topic a very interesting read. A “clean” diet is tossed around frequently here, but I don’t know if there really is a universal agreement as to what defines “clean” in this context. Obviously it does not simply mean healthy, because if that were true we wouldn’t need a 2nd word to say the same thing. Does it mean a diet that promotes strength/physique goals? If so, that would even be ever changing depending on what point of your training you are at. I guess bottom line is I have not yet come to a conclusion on your premise CL, but you definitely have me thinking.
Nice points, I’d like to know how some of these people define “clean” and what basis they used to come to that conclusion.[/quote]
I don’t think there is a universal definition. To me, clean means natural, unprocessed foods. The way you combine them to make a meal will depend on your goals and particular body. For example, oats are a clean food. But some people may be better off avoiding their consumption with any significant quanity of fat [a la Berardi].
Others seem to do fine without separating carbs and fat. Fruits are also clean foods. But someone seeking to get extremely lean for a competition or otherwise might be best off temporarily getting all their carbs from vegetables and going low-carb.
The same person would want a much broader and higher carb consumption when gaining. I don’t consider a meal COMPLETELY clean unless it contains 100% natural, unprocessed food [beyond adding preservatives, I suppose]. But i also don’t think it’s NECESSARY at all to eat completely clean meals most of the time. One of the contributors on the site goes with the 90/10 rule.
I think it’s a good rule of thumb though I have to say there’s plenty of times when I’m personally not even that disciplined.
[quote]Roy wrote:
Adding healthy fats/fiber/protein does not make a meal “clean”. If I were to add those things to an ice cream cone. I would have a yucky tasting ice cream cone with protein, alot of fat, some fiber, and alot of suger that would digest slightly slower because of the fiber.
Another failed attempt at justifying high bodyfat.[/quote]
Who said anything about high bodyfat and where did anyone say or give reason to believe they had it. You’re being dumb.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Roy wrote:
Adding healthy fats/fiber/protein does not make a meal “clean”. If I were to add those things to an ice cream cone. I would have a yucky tasting ice cream cone with protein, alot of fat, some fiber, and alot of suger that would digest slightly slower because of the fiber.
Another failed attempt at justifying high bodyfat.
Who said anything about high bodyfat and where did anyone say or give reason to believe they had it. You’re being dumb.[/quote]
I’d say over 50% of the people on these boards are fat. That statement comes from years of lurking, watching how people respond to certain articles, certain questions, and good ol fashion pictures.
[quote]Roy wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Roy wrote:
Adding healthy fats/fiber/protein does not make a meal “clean”. If I were to add those things to an ice cream cone. I would have a yucky tasting ice cream cone with protein, alot of fat, some fiber, and alot of suger that would digest slightly slower because of the fiber.
Another failed attempt at justifying high bodyfat.
Who said anything about high bodyfat and where did anyone say or give reason to believe they had it. You’re being dumb.
I’d say over 50% of the people on these boards are fat. That statement comes from years of lurking, watching how people respond to certain articles, certain questions, and good ol fashion pictures.[/quote]
Well, at least fat people can go on a diet–I’m not sure you have the ability to raise your IQ. You’ve offered nothing, please move along.
As to ‘clean’ I believe js has some points. Clean also has to fit into your current goals. Clean for a dieter or a mass builder would be different.
I have always had an issue on this board with regards to clean. So many confuse clean with ideal or theoretically perfect. Law’s meal looked good. Maybe not for a dieter, but a good, fairly clean, meal.
[quote]Keyser Soze wrote:
Brett Tucek wrote:
I mixed a scoop of protein powder in my Coke today.
I did the same, my nose is still stinging.
[/quote]
Best post of this thread, hahahahahaha!!
[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Roy wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Roy wrote:
Adding healthy fats/fiber/protein does not make a meal “clean”. If I were to add those things to an ice cream cone. I would have a yucky tasting ice cream cone with protein, alot of fat, some fiber, and alot of suger that would digest slightly slower because of the fiber.
Another failed attempt at justifying high bodyfat.
Who said anything about high bodyfat and where did anyone say or give reason to believe they had it. You’re being dumb.
I’d say over 50% of the people on these boards are fat. That statement comes from years of lurking, watching how people respond to certain articles, certain questions, and good ol fashion pictures.
Well, at least fat people can go on a diet–I’m not sure you have the ability to raise your IQ. You’ve offered nothing, please move along.
As to ‘clean’ I believe js has some points. Clean also has to fit into your current goals. Clean for a dieter or a mass builder would be different.
I have always had an issue on this board with regards to clean. So many confuse clean with ideal or theoretically perfect. Law’s meal looked good. Maybe not for a dieter, but a good, fairly clean, meal.[/quote]
I agree with this. I think too many get caught up in thinking that eating like a granola eating health freak will somehow put tons of muscle on you. Your body needs calories. If you can get those calories from chicken breasts and tuna, more power to you. The bigger you get, the less likely it is that getting your calories from food sources with such minimal caloric content will be very easy at all.
I also think most beginners should be more focused on those calories than on whether they ate as absolutely “clean” (which means whatever you want it to mean) as possible. Eating enough to grow shouldn’t be that difficult for someone who only weighs 150lbs. If you expect to eat the same at 250lbs, you may have the wrong concept of what this takes.