Oh, thank you, Irishman. I hesitated to jump in since the thread had gone so sideways. And Trib’s thread was impossible for me in both interpretation and approach. I was waiting for him to tell me I’m not Christian enough, or not the right kind, which is never a nice experience.
2 Likes
It’s overdone.
What is with the larger mainstream religions putting such a big emphasis on spreading their message? I personally believe it comes down to power and money.
Religion has caused more wars than anything else and it seems like human nature to want to kill each other. Maybe it’s just a convenient solution.
Having a personal relationship with God is not the same as ‘religion’.
I haven’t read Trib’s thread but it’s sad when individuals aren’t encouraged to interpret their beliefs in their own way. Too much emphasis on labels IMO.
1 Like
Are you being cryptic? Sorry, not sure I’m following you…
Islam, yes. The “religion causes all wars” thing baffles me. Even “religious wars” were usually masked in religion but hardly fought over doctrine. Can you name a war in the past 500 years based strictly on religion where Islam was not the aggressor?
People have defended Islam using the same reasoning.
And not taking a literal interpretation when reading the Bible is not something new or “liberal.” Many early Christian authorities didn’t read the Bible literally. Not reading the creation account as allegorical is new.
1 Like
That doesn’t make any sense.
I always wonder about this. Religion is responsible for all the bad. Depending on how you look at the casualties, Stalin (20-60 million deaths). Mao (45 million over 4 years, estimates up to 65 million). Hitler. None of these people were motivated by religion. Hitler engaged in genocide, but he wasn’t motivated by his own religious ideology.
Thought I’d jump in 
As many philosophers and religions do.Why be a christian and not just study the teachings,as you’d do the teachings of Gandhi?
Wouldn’t we have to respond to the question “does it make sense to believe in a god ?” before looking at it’s advantages?
While we could find some scientists or philosophers that state otherwise,appeals to authority are so degrading imo.To me it’s like saying “we’ll let the smart guys think for us”
God is one thing,the god of X religion is another
For christianity to make sense,you’d have to believe in creationism,which is obviously not scientificly sound.So,even if we could come up with some reasoning for the existence of god,it would only make sense to be a deist at best
And not to drag the thread off topic, but all those regimes have something in common and it’s not free market capitalism (hint, hint).
1 Like
I’m not deliberately trying to be mysterious.
A person can speak to God in prayer and be spoken to by God by reading the Bible (chiefly, among several ways). None require religion from the sense of having to be inside a church building, having done enough good things to avoid God’s wrath, being a mouse to some domineering leader, or giving the correct amount of money. Quite literally, none of these are required.
But one thing that can’t be overlooked is that God has a personal relationship with those who seek him and accept his son Jesus Christ, as their savior. The Bible gives us no other method.
1 Like
Christians can and do study and read the writings of others. And we believe there are many good men and women of integrity outside of our faith. We don’t have a monopoly on all truth and goodness. Believing someone is wise and good, is not the same as believing someone is the Savior of the world. That’s a lot bigger than learning good principles, or finding mentors wherever they are found. Jesus was not only a beautiful philosopher and perfect example, but he was capable of being Savior and Redeemer. That’s a very different thing than me thinking that someone like Ghandi recognized some eternal truths.
Many Christians accept evolutionary processes, and the possibility that the origins of our universe started with something like the big bang. There are many religious scientists who can imagine that God may use such processes, even “random” processes, or who do not interpret the Genesis story literally so physics or biological evolution are not topics that effect their faith. You might hypothesize that even the miracles like Jesus walking on water may be examples of God’s ability to understand and manipulate natural laws, give order to matter, rather than some kind of “magic” that violates natural laws. We don’t know.
True. Thanks. It sounds like the OP is ascribes to a more fundamentalist church. I’d think that’s the exception, rather than the rule, that everything in the Bible be interpreted literally. Of course, you can believe that some stories are allegorical, and still believe in miracles, although there are Christians groups who no longer believe in the miracles of Jesus, or who attempt to explain them as possibly events that can be explained by other natural phenomena (like the days of darkness at the time of His death corresponding to a volcanic eruption that blocked the sun). In my tradition, we do believe that He worked miracles.
Hi justaman. I’m not sure if Treco’s response answered this, but I didn’t want to ignore your question.
We tend to focus on the crucifixion, because most Christians use the cross as a symbol of the faith. Really, the symbol could just as easily be the garden, or the empty tomb. The crucifixion was a part of the atonement. It started in the Garden of Gethsemane where Christ took upon himself all the sufferings and sins and afflictions of the world. We don’t fully understand how he did that, but we know that as he prayed there, He bled from every pore and felt not just the sins, but the sufferings and afflictions of all. He knows what it’s like to have a child diagnosed with a devastating and progressive neurological disorder, so He knows how to comfort and love me. It’s personal. That’s the miracle of the Garden. Then the crucifixion. About power, remember the story of the centurian who attempted to arrest Jesus, and Peter stepped forward to defend the Savior and cut off the soldier’s ear? Jesus stopped Peter, healed the ear, and went peacefully. Evidence that he allowed Himself to be taken. Then the resurrection, and miracle of the empty tomb. He overcame death, not only for Himself but for the rest of us. This is why his death on the cross was different form the other people who suffered that fate. It’s three-fold. I hope that helps to explain the tradition a bit, even if it’s in a Bible as literature, attempt to understand the religion perspective.
I agree, and would point out that the reasonable challenges to Christianity offered by @stronkfak and others are of the sort that naturally arise in response to fundamentalism. My points being that this is a sign of:
- the negative impression this ‘brand’ of Christianity has on thoughtful non-Christians; and
- the extent to which, in the minds of the non-Christian public, this brand has come to be identified as ‘the’ Christianity.
In short: Like Kleenex and Band-Aids, Christianity has a branding problem.
1 Like
I was thinking existentially, yes. Anxiety, dread and hopelessness are induced by the sense that life may be purposeless. Some people (not suggesting you, or anyone else on this thread) respond to this anxiety by clinging to outmoded concepts related to religion. In contrast, dealing authentically with this existential anxiety is central to the theology of Paul Tillich, who addresses it in The Courage to Be (which happens to be his best-known work).
Related to your quote, in TCTB Tillich also takes on the challenge of God is Dead as discussed by Nietzsche. Tillich does this by first agreeing with Nietzsche. It’s quite a ride.
I have indeed. He’s a psychologist, so his name/work came up a fair amount during my undergrad education.
1 Like
To give you guys an idea of the kinds of things Jordan Peterson talks about. He also has a series on The Bible. This clip, Reconciling Science and Religion, is more about religion and culture, myth, anthropology. I find this kind of thing very cool. He gets into religious fundamentalism/ vs liberalism about min 20 or 21.
@Uncle_Gabby, I’d never heard of Jordan Peterson until you recommended one of his podcasts, talking about campus culture and free speech. Thanks for that. I think he’s so interesting. I’m working my way through some of his talks and lectures talking about science and religion, and finding meaning.
@xXSeraphimXx - I know you’re a fan. Me too.
Edited.
1 Like
Powerpuff, absolutely great video! I had never heard of Jordan Peterson but watched the entire video and really got a great deal from it. Thanks for posting it.
A few of my favorite quotes from this video:
“God is always just outside of what you know.”
“There is nothing more complex in the cosmos than a human being”
“I think the Universities do more harm than good.”
“There’s no evidence that there is any relationship between intelligence and morality.”
And…probably 20 or 30 more…
1 Like
He’s worth watching. Going to look for more of his lectures and interviews.
1 Like
“I used to think the human brain was the most amazing thing in the universe. And then I thought, well sure, look who’s telling me that.”
–Emo Philips
3 Likes