[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
My rear delts always get sore the day after a back session - even if I didn’t train them specifically. I now train them on back day with 3 sets of bent laterals. But I’ve just discovered a great finisher that really burns the hell out of the rear delts: Straight-Arm DB Kickbacks. But I do them while keeping my lats spread (do not pull scapulae together). Keeping the lats flared throughout the movement forces my rear delts to take all the work. I pull my arms back as far as they’ll go. hold for a second, and slowly descend.[/quote]
The diesel crew calls those straight-arm kickbacks “Skiers”. Awesome movement, I used to do them alot during rehab, doing them strict like you do is an ego killer. And using momentum makes this move useless because you just end up swinging your arms.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
My rear delts always get sore the day after a back session - even if I didn’t train them specifically. I now train them on back day with 3 sets of bent laterals. But I’ve just discovered a great finisher that really burns the hell out of the rear delts: Straight-Arm DB Kickbacks. But I do them while keeping my lats spread (do not pull scapulae together). Keeping the lats flared throughout the movement forces my rear delts to take all the work. I pull my arms back as far as they’ll go. hold for a second, and slowly descend.[/quote]
The diesel crew calls those straight-arm kickbacks “Skiers”. Awesome movement, I used to do them alot during rehab, doing them strict like you do is an ego killer. And using momentum makes this move useless because you just end up swinging your arms.[/quote]
Did these tonight. Strict and no momentum is a must.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
My rear delts always get sore the day after a back session - even if I didn’t train them specifically. I now train them on back day with 3 sets of bent laterals. But I’ve just discovered a great finisher that really burns the hell out of the rear delts: Straight-Arm DB Kickbacks. But I do them while keeping my lats spread (do not pull scapulae together). Keeping the lats flared throughout the movement forces my rear delts to take all the work. I pull my arms back as far as they’ll go. hold for a second, and slowly descend.[/quote]
The diesel crew calls those straight-arm kickbacks “Skiers”. Awesome movement, I used to do them alot during rehab, doing them strict like you do is an ego killer. And using momentum makes this move useless because you just end up swinging your arms.[/quote]
Did these tonight. Strict and no momentum is a must.
[/quote]
Do you guys think that the average (non-competitive, not drug enhanced) weightlifter needs isolation work for his rear delts, if he’s performing plenty of rack-pulls and/or power-shrugs on a classic upper body push/upper body pull/legs split?
(4 workouts/week, maybe some light stiff-legged deads on leg day)
[quote]tolismann wrote:
Do you guys think that the average (non-competitive, not drug enhanced) weightlifter needs isolation work for his rear delts, if he’s performing plenty of rack-pulls and/or power-shrugs on a classic upper body push/upper body pull/legs split?
(4 workouts/week, maybe some light stiff-legged deads on leg day)[/quote]
Go look at your rear delts in the mirror or so, that should answer your question.
Or do you mean weightlifter as in “olympic” weightlifters ?
I’m not sure what drug-use has to do with it. Do your shoulders grow easier and require less training if you stay drug-free or something? Doesn’t seem that way to me, more like the opposite, but what do I know…
Fwiw. if you can’t figure out how to progress on your rear delt work, then of course it will be useless. T-Nation is the Forum Of People Who Suck At Isolation Exercises, so that may be a real concern
[quote]tolismann wrote:
Do you guys think that the average (non-competitive, not drug enhanced) weightlifter needs isolation work for his rear delts, if he’s performing plenty of rack-pulls and/or power-shrugs on a classic upper body push/upper body pull/legs split?
(4 workouts/week, maybe some light stiff-legged deads on leg day)[/quote]
Go look at your rear delts in the mirror or so, that should answer your question.
Or do you mean weightlifter as in “olympic” weightlifters ?
I’m not sure what drug-use has to do with it. Do your shoulders grow easier and require less training if you stay drug-free or something? Doesn’t seem that way to me, more like the opposite, but what do I know…
Fwiw. if you can’t figure out how to progress on your rear delt work, then of course it will be useless. T-Nation is the Forum Of People Who Suck At Isolation Exercises, so that may be a real concern
[/quote]
[quote]tolismann wrote:
Do you guys think that the average (non-competitive, not drug enhanced) weightlifter needs isolation work for his rear delts, if he’s performing plenty of rack-pulls and/or power-shrugs on a classic upper body push/upper body pull/legs split?
(4 workouts/week, maybe some light stiff-legged deads on leg day)[/quote]
Go look at your rear delts in the mirror or so, that should answer your question.
Or do you mean weightlifter as in “olympic” weightlifters ?
I’m not sure what drug-use has to do with it. Do your shoulders grow easier and require less training if you stay drug-free or something? Doesn’t seem that way to me, more like the opposite, but what do I know…
Fwiw. if you can’t figure out how to progress on your rear delt work, then of course it will be useless. T-Nation is the Forum Of People Who Suck At Isolation Exercises, so that may be a real concern
[/quote]
I am beyond impressed by your ability to answer questions that make me what to shake the shit out of my computer screen so calmly.
For what it is worth, something that worked for me for rear delts:
-Extended sets of bent over lateral raises. Doing a set with something you can only get 10 or less with, perform 1 arm at a time and then when you complete the second arm, go back to the first and get 6+ more.
Did this on a ship with limited equipment and came back 4 weeks later with big improvements. Remember the weight weighs more if you are purposefully accelerating it up, not just slowly raising it
when doing a “shoulder day” split (i.e. lots volume per workout for just shoulders)
-bent over lateral raises with DBs
or
-cable bent over laterals superset with standing lateral raises to side
(bent over 1 set each arm, then stand and complete the standing sets, 1 arm at a time)
and
-cable crossed over in front of you so both arms are pulling across you
basically do 6 sets or more for rear delts/increase the volume.
or train them first in your workout when you are freshest.
[quote]tolismann wrote:
Do you guys think that the average (non-competitive, not drug enhanced) weightlifter needs isolation work for his rear delts, if he’s performing plenty of rack-pulls and/or power-shrugs on a classic upper body push/upper body pull/legs split?
(4 workouts/week, maybe some light stiff-legged deads on leg day)[/quote]
Go look at your rear delts in the mirror or so, that should answer your question.
Or do you mean weightlifter as in “olympic” weightlifters ?
I’m not sure what drug-use has to do with it. Do your shoulders grow easier and require less training if you stay drug-free or something? Doesn’t seem that way to me, more like the opposite, but what do I know…
Fwiw. if you can’t figure out how to progress on your rear delt work, then of course it will be useless. T-Nation is the Forum Of People Who Suck At Isolation Exercises, so that may be a real concern :)[/quote]
LOL, I guess being too specific confused everybody.
Disregard the non-competitive, not drug enhanced - weightlifter comments.
My humble question was whether rack-pulls, power-shrugs and various cable pulldowns (on a classic push/pull/legs split) are enough for rear delts (no other BB/Db/Cable row or isolation exercise).
Quick thought: notice how much thicker your front delts get from the various pressing exercises tho you are doing no direct front delt isolation work? Try the same thing with rows specifically supported dumbell rows–personal experience My rears used to suck ass but they have improved markedly now that I can do supported DB rows with weight heavier than what I can use for pressing (125 lb dumbbells for 6-8 slow smooth strict reps and sets of 25-30 reps with 80 pounders) Improved My lats quite a bit too. Something to ponder.
I find it that a heavy ass compound movement, like Krocs or BB Rows FOLLOWED by a good rear delt isolation exercise with lots of reps can make them grow wonders. Every time I try isolating first, I get more trap pump than delt.
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Most effective rear delt exercises that I’ve used.
Bent over Dead stop rear raises (standing)
Reverse Pec Dec
Standing cable x’s
1 arm stiff arm pulldowns to 45 degree angle to body
I do one of the first 2 for 4x8-12 followed by one of the second 2 for 4x12-15 after pull-ups, bar rows, pulldowns and wide grip seated rows. I feel 2 exercises is the way to go for this often neglected muscle to really make them stand out.
[/quote]
this worked awesome for me… first time i felt my RD’s working by themselves in a while
[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
No offense Mr. popular, but I wouldn’t say your rear delts are a “strong point” (nor are mine or most people’s).
[/quote]
Can I play?[/quote]
…asshole
[/quote]
lol? Why? Because he actually has made fucking progress?
With the abundant amount of average if not plain skinny fucks around here spouting off advice like this is bb.com, Bonez is someone that SHOULD be giving out advice.
Plus he lifts like twice a week, he’s a cheater and not busy with other shit.
[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
No offense Mr. popular, but I wouldn’t say your rear delts are a “strong point” (nor are mine or most people’s).
[/quote]
Can I play?[/quote]
Gain a little more size guy… I kid I kid
Seriously though, rear delts are always that thing that get hit hard for 3-4 weeks for me, then I kind of forget about them and be lazy and think ‘eh, cleans and deadlifts will take care of it’.
I don’t have a pic but I don’t think mine are too out of proportion with my other delts, you’ll have to take my word for it.
I think rear delt work can get covered pretty easily, but it’s not easy to overwork. I once heard an old adage, “To a bodybuilder, there is no such thing as too much rear delts.” Believe it or not, I like to use that mantra.
I include my rear delt work on my back day, so I go through with all my rows and lat work before I get to them. I usually do a reverse pec-dec for one set of 8-14ish. I’ll then go to rear delt flyes on an incline bench (face in.) One heavy set with some english, followed by 1-2 more sets with 10+ (usually to 20 before I progress.) I also like to, towards the end of the pump sets, take a few breaths so I can squeeze out a few more forced-type reps. No reason not to.
I like heavy bent over DB reverse flies…i don’t try to hold my upper body perpendicular to the floor though, I just let myself dangle over and I find it helps make sure I keep my elbows flared out (yates does em this way in blood n guts). And i train them with intensity like everything else. Usually work up to a heavy top set and go until I’m doing partials barely able to initiate the movement.
[quote]josh86 wrote:
I like heavy bent over DB reverse flies…i don’t try to hold my upper body perpendicular to the floor though, I just let myself dangle over and I find it helps make sure I keep my elbows flared out (yates does em this way in blood n guts). And i train them with intensity like everything else. Usually work up to a heavy top set and go until I’m doing partials barely able to initiate the movement.[/quote]
meh.
i like bent over DBs. i think to much body english takes away from the focus on rear delts
