The sad thing is, people have no idea what moderation is these days, and have no idea how to reach satiety. Eating processed foods doesn’t fill you up; you have to eat whole foods – protein and veggies.
People will load up their plates with the least healthful foods (almost no protein), then pound dessert and alcohol, while not moving the entire day. Both ignorance and gluttony.
Our society’s state of physical existence is going to be mind-boggling to future generations.
Yup it’s a massive issue and we’re only getting sicker and sicker. We are the lucky few who realize how important and awesome it is to feel And be healthy.
I’m going to guess you (like, seemingly, many of the other guys around these parts) are a high performer in the workplace. Colleagues often ask how I’m so productive – health is a secret weapon.
Most people have no idea how much more they’d accomplish on a daily basis if they had more energy and superior ability to focus.
I used to be and I’m slowly getting back there. I agree health helps allot. That’s why the military is testing hormones on soldiers to make them better. They found it works and one day we should see this to be a normal aspect of being a super soldier. Optimized hormones and health.
They are? Wow, that would be HUGE. It would be an unstoppable fleet of warriors.
Sugar free red bull
Ha, definitely went through a phase fully addicted to that stuff. I’ve actually been cutting back on caffeine — 1 coffee and 1 PWO per day (yes, that’s cutting back for me).
The title of this thread pertains to body recomposition, which is what I’ve been chasing this year. For those pursuing a similar goal, I’ve been working on some golden rules I’ve learned over 2019. Here are 8…
Anyone purchased a Jeff Nippard program before? I like most of his content, and he’s running a Black Friday sale. I’m contemplating snagging his Intermediate-Advanced PPL package to run over the winter recess.
The other approaches I’m considering for that 2-month block:
Brother with all of the content online nowadays, and all of these bodybuilders trying to make a name for themselves available for advice, I’d be damned if I would PAY for a routine, unless I was hiring a coach to work with me one on one.
It’s just too damn easy to try different routines that are already out there, and cherry pick your favorite parts from each to build your own.
One more thing to add…
Bodybuilding has been a main stream sport now for long time. There are a TON of different philosophies and routines readily available, and all of them have been written in tons of books. And guess what? Most people look at those books now and say “that stuff is so outdated” (and some of it really is lol), and they throw these books away or sell them next to nothing. As long as you are smart enough to know what things NOT to do to seriously injure yourself, there is a WEALTH of information to be gleaned from these old school body builders.
One of my favorite past times is going to thrift stores and places like goodwill, and thumbing through the health book section. I’ve found a ton of old Arnold and Dorian Yates books (two of my favorite has beens), and several others that I paid no more than $0.50 for. I’ve learned so much from reading what these guys have to offer, and you could too I would bet.
Run a modified 531. I hit the best gains of my life this year, both in terms of strength and hypertrophy. Mentzer and Yates both ran super high intensity type programs as both were disciples of Jones. An unsupplemented athlete cannot make long terms progress on ether program and both require a training partner for the heavy negatives and forced reps etc.
Yeah, the training partner thing is my main concern. I work out alone in a home gym — impossible to have a spotter, probably dangerous. I guess I’m borderline “supplemented” on my 250 mg dose currently, but nothing like Yates/Mentzer obviously.
I’d say that unless you’re trying to get to the status of Yates or Mentzer (300-310lbs of solid muscle with 3%-5% BF in competition mode), then don’t worry about doing it EXACTLY the way they did it.
Don’t worry about taking supra doses of test, and don’t worry about nailing it PERFECT every time. Set a personal goal and use the methods that they laid out before us as a tool to help you get there. If you’re 195lbs and 15% BF, and your goal is 210lbs at 9% BF, then that’s totally achievable at your current TRT dosages.
If you don’t have a partner to push heavy, then go with a moderate weight and don’t stop pushing it on every set until you can’t push it anymore…then do one more rep. Use the safety devices in your current setup. If you don’t have any, then make some. Use a rope hanging from an open ceiling joist and tie it to your bar at the bottom position so it will catch it if you fail if you have to. There are ways to make it work.
The point is that you don’t have to have a “program”. The only program you need is to download a program in your brain that sees what it wants, and goes after with the tenacity of a pit bull. You push the weight until it hurts and then call that your warmup, AND QUIT CUTTING YOUR FUCKING CALORIES (lmao) and you will see growth. You will achieve what you want to achieve.
This is what people don’t seem to understand here brother…no hormone optimization or scientifically proven workout routine in the entire world will replace a “I’m gonna fucking do this even if it kills me” attitude.
Oh man, getting to that level honestly sounds miserable, lmao. If I ever clear 250 lbs — regardless of how lean I am — I’ll need an intervention. Do you personally have a “max weight” that you’d never want to clear? Just seems it’d be super uncomfortable and inconvenient to be that heavy!
I love this perspective, brother — I agree that most folks half-ass their workouts and their approach to training in general and need a major wake-up call.
Over the summer, when my T was at its height, I had the type of pit-bull focus you described. It’s so hard to get there when your hormones are off and other stresses in life (ex: work) are weighing on your brain…but the feeling when you’re ON IT and DIALED IN is the best!
It just makes you feel like a man — the way we ALWAYS should feel. Making gains, killing it at work, pleasing the wife in the bedroom, etc. Can’t wait to be in that place again. I can feel myself climbing back!
So, this is one topic I’ve been debating constantly of late (as you probably know). Here’s my take: there is a obviously caloric number at which each of us begins to gain body fat. For me, that threshold appears to be 2400. I don’t believe it’s necessary to eat at this level, however, to gain muscle and achieve the desired recomp effects.
Greg Doucette, for example, makes a very compelling case that you can build muscle in a caloric deficit. That may be unrealistic in many contexts, but I think you CAN certainly do it at maintenance.
So (genuinely asking, not being snarky): What would be the point in eating 2400 — where BF will inevitably accrue over time — if one could eat 2200, NOT add fat (maybe even slowly lose some), and still gain muscle?
Hell yeah! Preach the good word, brother!
First point is that you can still store body fat in a deficit, and the body will actually be MORE prone to doing so the longer you stay in that deficit.
Now to try and answer your question lol.
It can be done but it’s not very efficient, and it’s really not true growth. When you’re in a deficit, the body has to make up the excess calories burned by converting stored fat. While the body will REPAIR itself, as it’s deemed a necessary part of survival, it will not go out if it’s way to burn the extra calories required to REINFORCE the muscle tissue.
What do I mean here? I’ll try to explain.
When you tear down muscle tissue, the body goes to work repairing that tissue. That tiny scar tissue “patch” will keep building over a very long time (assuming you find enough energy to keep tearing it down), and technically you see “growth” in the muscle. The problem is, scar tissue (which is what the body uses as a patch) is just form, not function. It’s not recruitable as a work tissue. It’s just there. And when you force your body into a “survival” mode, it will decrease it’s metabolic demands, and only do what it HAS to do, ie…repairing the torn muscle fibers instead of reinforcing them. Furthermore, if the body sees any opportunity to to store excess energy, it will. That’s why you see people get into a skinny fat shape from starvation diets.
Now when your body has excess energy (and I mean just a little more than it really needs here, not gluttonous levels lol), in the right macro ratios so it has the proper building blocks to work with, and you reassure that the excess intake will not run out any time soon, then the body reacts a little differently. First, when you tear down the muscle via overload, your body says “hey, let’s fix this, but let’s go ahead and add a little more functional tissue there so that maybe we can handle that load a little better next time. Hell why not, we’ve got resources to spare!” Also, on the metabolic side, you body will not feel the need to store as much fat because it has been trained by you that food is a-plenty.
This making any sense?
Bottom line, you can grow (get slightly bigger) in a deficit, but you cannot add reinforcing muscle tissue, which is what you REALLY want out of true muscle growth.
This is a very oversimplified short and sweet version, and there are books that can be written to describe the entire procedural differences in how the body reacts in deficit and surplus, and all the overlapping variables pertaining to how much deficit or how much surplus, but hopefully this post will make enough sense for you to catch the basic grasp of what I’m trying to throw down lol.
Edit to add…
I just re read what I wrote and I realized that it may come across a little condescending. I truly hope that it wasn’t taken that way as that’s not how I meant for it to come across at all. I was just typing my thoughts out very quickly and wanted to get to the point…Busy busy in this house buying season!!! Lol
Second edit to add…
All of my above points are in the context of how the body will react when you are actively pushing weights routinely, not just being sedentary. That’s a whole other dynamic that we can discuss if desired, but this particular post is geared toward the assumption that we are discussing @bkb333’s case…who is actively body building and has been.
Talk about a high-level science lesson, brother – that was awesome! I didn’t view it as condescending at all, only educational. Thanks for taking the time to drop knowledge, TRT Yoda.
It’s crazy to think about how many books, articles, videos, etc. you’ve consumed over the years to have the hormone/diet/training knowledge you now possess. I hope when I’m older, I’ll be schooling young suckas like Current Me, lol.
I understand almost everything you shared, but do still have a couple thoughts/questions…
I definitely can grasp this, given metabolic adaptation to the insufficient influx of calories. That’s why you see women who are eating 1,000 calories yet storing more fat – insane! I can’t imagine the frustration they must be feeling. They’re doing everything they can to lose fat, yet seeing the opposite effect.
Is your perspective, then, that if one wants to reduce body fat, he/she should do it rapidly so the metabolism doesn’t adapt? Say bmbrady wants to get absolutely peeled for vacation – for how many weeks would you go into a deficit?
I view longer cuts as more manageable from a lifestyle perspective (ex: dropping 50 calories per week, each week for 2 months), but perhaps the long-term result doesn’t justify the short-term convenience.
Let me ask you this – do you think the same logic applies to adequate energy (i.e., maintenance), or merely excess energy (i.e., a slight surplus)? I tend to think it would apply to a maintenance condition, too, as your body would feel it is getting everything it needs (provided, of course, the macro ratios are on point) and therefore see no issue with “going ahead and adding a little more functional tissue there.” Hey, we aren’t in any danger of dying, let’s reinforce that part of the body.
This makes sense to me in theory, but I can’t quite wrap my head around its application. If ample food (i.e., a slight surplus of calories) is entering the body, the body stores fat…period. So how, as you see it, does the body “not feel the need to store as much fat”? I think I know what you mean, but struggling to see its practical application for someone who doesn’t want to put on fat.
The bottom line is that I’m currently at 13-15%, but I’d far rather spend the year around 8% (my shape over the summer), with the ab veins and whatnot. If it’s possible to live in that range year-round while still making gains (gradually, of course, over years), that would be nirvana!
I’m looking for an approach that keeps me feeling great in my skin year-round, but also allows me to consistently make progress. I don’t think it has to be zero-sum.
So I’m wondering, if I cut down to that desired BF level but then eat at flat-out maintenance, would the body have the “proper building blocks to work with”? I really only did eat at the slightest of surpluses this fall, but seeing your abs gradually disappear over a few months and love handles gradually get thicker is never fun, lol.
It’s not like I’ve turned into a big ol’ bag of milk (BEAR MODE!), but I don’t quite have a shredded physique…which, naturally, feels great and sends anyone’s confidence soaring.
Thanks again, brother – you’re the man!
You are very welcome brother and it’s my pleasure to help in any way I can, though I don’t agree with the Yoda reference lol. Well, unless we’re talking about the whole talks in backwards sentences, and so ugly that he’s cute thing! Lmao!!
Please don’t ever lose this mentality. The current generation believes that knowledge is power, and they aren’t wrong for believing this. What they fail to realize is that power was never meant to be concentrated, it was meant to be shared. That’s a whole other conversation lol.
This is not a simple answer…First let’s discuss the difference between a healthy “defined” body vs a very unhealthy, stage ready “peeled” body.
Starting with the latter, peeled (3%-8% BF) is what you see on stage, and in the photo shoots in the magazine. Clever marketing has led us to believe that this is what we want to achieve from all of our hard work in the gym, and tirelessly counting macros and caloric intake. The truth is though, peeled is a single event snapshot. It’s not sustainable and it’s not healthy to even try. It is the ultimate extreme state of being completely out of homeostasis. What I mean by this is that your body will fight you tooth and nail to get back out of this state. It’s not where your body wants to be, and it takes a very calculated plot to fool your body to even get to this state. It’s not where you want to “live”, its where you want to be on a specific date for a specific purpose or event.
Defined is just that. Visible muscle volume with a good degree of definition. Striations are visible but but usually only when working out. That falls at around 10%-12% BF and is a very good sustainable balance. This is where we want to spend the majority of our lives.
Now that that’s out of the way, let’s set the background for what we want to achieve, and if I’m understanding your question correctly, you want to know how I would approach getting peeled for a specific event. I personally would use a regimen that requires about 2 months, providing that I have not let my BF get above 15%-17% or so while building prior to the start of this journey. Homework time, because there are a few things that must be nailed down first before you can even begin to think about a last stretch cut to achieve peeled.
Ok here’s where it can get complicated, but I’ll try to keep it as simple as possible. Metabolism is KEY. Before thinking about going into a deficit, make sure that you have been in a caloric surplus, and that your activity levels are very high in order to make sure that you metabolism is firing on all cylinders. You’re taking a bunch in, but your body knows that you are also using a lot of energy, and that we will be reinforcing muscle all the time. This takes at least 6-8 weeks of being in a high activity and slight surplus caloric intake mode to initiate. If your plan is to cut, then I like to sustain this mode for another 3-4 weeks just to reinforce this in my body and reassure it that we’re in good times. You have to know what levels of activity and caloric intake induce this in your own body.
Secondly, you have to know what levels of activity and caloric intake start bringing you out of that mode and your metabolism starts slowing down. This is the threshold where you no longer see gains, and your body just sort of goes stagnant. Nothing is moving.
Thirdly, you have to know where your HEALTHY (if we can even call it that) deficit is. This where you see no movement in strength, and body fat starts to melt. This mode is tricky, because as soon as your body is on to what you’re doing, it’s going to get pissed and start compensating. You have a small window here, usually 4-6 weeks before you’re found out. After this period, the body will start slowing down your metabolism so that it can keep you alive, and perform the necessary activity required to do so using less energy, and it will then start taking anything that is left over (Your body will create a surplus by slowing down metabolism, in turn reducing the number of calories it needs to perform work) and store it for a rainy day. This storage is going to take priority over time as the brain is trying to make sure that enough reserve energy is on hand to fuel basic vital functions in your body. Keeping your heart beating and organs functioning. Remember that your body doesn’t know that you have an event coming up, it just knows that you aren’t feeding it enough, and that it takes precious energy to keep you alive. Your body will start storing at ALL cost over time, even to the point of cannibalizing your own muscle tissue to use as fuel so that it can hold on to its precious reserves in the fat cells. This is where you DO NOT want to be.
Ok, so once you know all of this about your body, and have all this information on hand you’re ready to go to work. My plan would be as follows…
3-4 months before starting, make sure that you’re in a slight surplus (building more muscle). During this phase, if I see that I am gaining a little too much fat, I will increase my activity levels each day. Add a cardio session, whatever. If that’s not enough then the surplus is a little excessive. Back it off a couple hundred calories a week.
The actual cut, or getting ready for the event…
2 months to d-day
Caloric intake to maintenance. Adjust activity level daily going by whether I am feeling lethargic, even, or slightly charged. I’m going for even here. Hold this for 3 weeks or so.
Week 4, start going into a slight deficit (100-200 cals) and maintain activity levels. While in deficit, increase the protein ratio a bit and back off the carbs just a touch. Each week, increase this deficit by another 200 cals / week (adjusting carbs mainly) and shift workouts to high rep / moderate weight (non failing sets). We don’t want to tear down muscle tissue here, we just want to convince the body that we still need that mass and that we want to hang on to it.
Keep this going for 4 more weeks.
About a week prior to the event, adjust the protein intake slightly higher and cut carbs altogether (no more than 20g per day). Workouts will be lightweight and high rep. We’re just looking to deplete all muscle glycogen this week. Drink 2-3 gallons of water every day for the first 5 days, and then we are going to cut water almost completely the day before the event, one small 8 oz glass in the morning and at lunch. This is way harder than you think btw lol.
The day of…
About an hour before the event, drink a 12oz sugar loaded soft drink, and do a lightweight pumping routine. Your glycogen depleted muscles will suck this sugar load up like a sponge and give your muscles more volume, which will in turn pull your dehydrated skin even tighter.
That’s how I would approach it.
After all that, I would take a week off. After that, go back into maintenance for a few weeks, then back into a surplus. I would adjust workouts until that caloric intake is just sustaining the increased activity, and then raise the calories again. Keep running this surplus / maintenance scheme adjusting activity and calories every 4-6 weeks. Once you’re happy with where you’re at, hold that caloric and activity level. Live your life. Have fun. If you decide you want to pig out one day, then run a deficit the next day and keep the activity up. If you decide you want to take a break from working out for a week, then lower your calories for the week and go for it.
The body will store fat to some degree. It tries to keep a slight reserve for reasons mentioned above. What you’re looking for is to train your body to be at homeostasis at around 10%-12% BF. If your activity levels are on point, and your metabolism is firing away, you will not store more fat. Your body will use what it needs, and eliminate the rest. If you are still gaining fat at this point, then the surplus is a little too high. You’re taking in more calories at a faster rate than your body can clear them. Back off a tad.
Word of warning here though, make sure that you can recognize the difference in your own body between true fat storage, and fluctuations in fluid retention. Two TOTALLY different things, although both will leave you looking a little blurry.
I want to be a well-rounded person who makes a positive impact. I don’t want to be body obsessive…so I decided to take three months off of taking any progress pictures or weighing myself.
But what I learned this morning is: These tools are useful because they’re objective, and we aren’t. See, I really believed I’d put on fat this fall. You can see that in my previous posts.
I could tell I was gaining muscle (especially in my arms, for the first time in years!), and my maxes had all increased, but I also genuinely believed my abs were disappearing and love handles were getting puffier (THICC), and that was disheartening.
Today, I weighed myself and took a photo. Needless to say, I was surprised.
Start of September Weight: 185.4
Start of September BF: 14.9%
Start of December Weight: 177.6
Start of December BF: 13.2%
Wait, what?
September Photo
December Photo
Did my physique change? Not a whole lot. But any change that did occur was positive. My strength went up, muscle mass is increasing in the right places, and I appear to have lost some fat.
Again…what?
Measuring yourself through tools like scales and selfies can get out of hand and promote body obsession. But these objective resources can also be useful guides. I’m still figuring out how I’ll use them moving forward.
Both wise and self-deprecating you are…err her her.
I think, actually, one of the biggest problems my generation (people in their 20s) face is that there is TOO MUCH information out there. In fitness, nutrition, career, and life in general, you can find a compelling argument from both Expert A and Expert Z…and they’re saying completely different things! It can induce paralysis by analysis.
So I think you have to put on some blinders and restrict yourself from excessive online consumption (set boundaries, time limits), otherwise you’ll go NUTS (which happens to me sometimes).
I love that you discussed marketing in your post. I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately. I’m a marketing PhD and even I fall prey – more than anyone – to the messages! They’re so influential. Those damn corporate entities.
I hate how they’ve been able to hijack our brains and convince us we should be chasing “the ultimate extreme state of being completely out of homeostasis.” It’s so unreasonable. Given the compelling and pervasive messaging (associating a visual appearance with different core desires like power and pleasure), we’ll spend hours doing research to hatch out “a very calculated plot to fool our bodies” – talk about a sham!
I recognize everything going on here…and yet it still has a powerful hold.
Why is it that I can feel great about my body at 8% but feel fat at 13%? That’s insane! The 13% is probably healthier and should be more aspirational. But it’s easy to say that as an objective outsider, yet hard to really buy into it for yourself. Who doesn’t like looking in the mirror and seeing veins?
Do you go this high? Or is that 10-12 zone your usual place of residence? I know it probably isn’t a huge deal to you, but I am curious…because I’m trying to become the next you!
I may be misunderstanding, but doesn’t this counter traditional bodybuilding logic? My understanding was that the pros ramp UP activity throughout show prep, so starting at a very high level would seem counterintuitive. Maybe inflammation plays a role here?
This is where tracking has been super helpful for me. I know it can get tedious, but I have been zoning in so closely on what levels of consumption/movement induce what body comp changes, because I have logs for every day. If I see a photo and think “damn, that was a good shape,” I can go back to that time in MFP and see exactly what I was eating. I can’t imagine having any idea how to alter body comp if I didn’t track.
Ha! I have to remind myself of this ALL the time. Your body doesn’t give a SHIT that you want to look shredded on vacation – it just wants to stay alive! (I know I’m giving you a hard time, body, but I do appreciate you for doing that. Please keep me alive for a long time. I like being alive.)
I find it fascinating how your default is to increase movement. I think most would turn toward calories first. In my personal circumstance, increasing movement would be tough, because I already lift practically every day, get 10K steps every day, and have an active career. I feel my ‘exercise’ time in the day is already maxed out.
You know so much about altering body composition, so I have to ask: Have you ever done a show, or do you ever want to?
I know it’s not ‘healthy’ and probably conflicts with much of your feelings about the fitness industry, but I would love to track your progress…and I think if anyone has the right mentality to do it and come out in a good place, it’d be you. Bmbrady on stage in 2020! Who’s with me?
When I took my ‘after’ photos for that competition over the summer, I followed a similar approach in terms of water and pumping up. I ate a Snickers in the final hour, which was hilarious – probably the only candy bar I’ve had in 10 years. It’s no sugary drink, but it did seem to work well. I was surprised at how average it tasted, lol.
This seems reasonable. I think everyone falls at a different place where they feel comfortable. Because I was a fat kid and that weighed on my psyche, I (obviously) prefer to be leaner. But I think I could feel great and still make gains living around that 10%, whereas the number would be more like 15% for some (probably guys who were self-conscious early in life about being thin).
Funny how our childhood experiences shape us even as adults. We really are just kids living in bigger bodies!