Some recent data points, for anyone interested…
(Note that there’s some Quest/LabCorp variation in there)
No.
The problem with RYR comes from the unregulated nature of the product.
Statins are great for preventing the progresion and induction of cardiovascular disease in those with serious dyslipidemia/at high risk.
RYR contains monacolin K i.e lovastatin. But how much lovastatin are you getting per capsule? Could be 0mg… could be 40mg
And citrinin contamination within RYR extract can cause organ damage. Just take lovastatin if you want a mild statin.
3 Likes
Actually thought of something…I had started doing IF. If I ate anything for breakfast, it was something very small like a protein bar. Most days, however, I didn’t eat breakfast and backloaded my calories. I wonder if that played a role in these results.
I’ve been reading up on the Vertical Diet and Stan takes an opposite approach, believing the “breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, dinner like a pauper” strategy is ideal for health. Makes sense…
I had high shbg 80-90 nmol/l with total testosteron around 800 ng/dl. But I took new bloodtests now it was around 2 years since last one. My shbg is 58 nmol/l now with still 800 ng/dl total testosteron. So I just wanna point out that shbg can go down on its own.
Yes and no. SHBG does fluctuate, but other lifestyle factors probably played a role (sleep, training, stress, diet, etc).
Update: after the recent bloods, I bumped my dose up to 308 mg/week. Honestly, I’m feeling fantastic. I’ve noticed a big difference. Libido has greatly improved – consistently waking up with AM wood! That hasn’t been the case for a long time.
I don’t know if I can stick with a dose this high for the long term…some would say yes, others no. But I feel great. We’ll see what the docs say. Meeting with two of them soon.
I should also point out that I started following The Vertical Diet, and that has definitely made a difference too. I’m really learning the value of micros.
“Can” you? Sure. “Should” you? Prob not. When do you get labs on that 300mg/wk dose? I bet they won’t look terrible so its really your own personal choice of risk/reward.
Yeah, thinking the same thing. Jury really is still out on this whole TRT thing. I’m not convinced it’s entirely “safe,” but also not convinced it’s all that dangerous.
Not sure when they’ll want labs – probably springtime. I actually expect the labs might look better given this whole Vertical switch. It’s weird that my lowest dose of TRT in a long time yielded the worst labs.
FWIW if you are a true low T guy than having optimized T levels is IMO far safer than having low T in the long run. Low T leads to just as many problems. The safest approach is to keep your T levels reasonable but to a level of symptom relief. Yes I said it “symptom relief” which I’m sure I’ll get a poke or two from.
1 Like
1000% agree with you, brother. Perhaps guys like me – who have high T “on paper” but feel low T for other reasons (e.g., very high SHBG) – are a grey area.
1 Like
So what do think is the difference currently making u feel better? Increased E2 and/ or DHT? Did all u do was raise ur test dose?
Are u drinking cranberry juice on the vertical diet for the iodine? Been researching iodine like crazy lately. Just started drinking 4oz of cranberry juice per day as of yesterday, because I watched a vid of Stan Efferding recommending it. Before that I was taking lugol’s iodine, but not sure if I was taking too much iodine per day
Honestly I have no idea. I wish I could say. They were supposed to test DHT but didn’t so I don’t know that number.
I also changed some other variables (I know some people won’t like that because it isn’t perfectly “experimental”), like adding D3, DHEA, and citrus bergamot, but I don’t expect those would make a huge difference. The T dose is the big change. E2 tested pretty low at 40, and historically I’ve felt better with it higher.
Yep, I’ve been gulping it down (tastes gross, but worth it) every morning. The OJ has been a really nice addition – tastes so good. I think I was deficient in potassium. Potatoes are a big help there.
It’s funny how much following The Vertical Diet can help you evolve from an over-simplistic IIFYM approach to food. It’s like now when I see food, I see micronutrients in addition to calories and macros.
Ya man it’s super interesting when ur brain makes that shift when it comes to food. For ur body and mind to function properly, and for all the enzymes in ur body to do their thing, and just every process in ur body to do it’s thing properly, it requires enough micronutrients for all of those things to work properly. So if I get say 2000 calories per day, I look at it as I have 2000 calories worth of food to get in all the micronutrients I need everyday. I don’t want to waste a lot of those calories on foods that aren’t gonna fulfill my micronutrient needs for the day, because then I won’t have enough calories left to get them all in. I don’t follow the vertical diet myself, but the great part about the diet is that u can get all ur micronutrients in while still enjoying everything that ur eating. My diet is more carnivore based, but honestly not super far off from the vertical diet. I eat 7oz of red meat twice per day, and 5 whole eggs for my other main meal. And eat white rice with all 3 meals. And then eat some fruit and other healthy foods mixed in there.
What dose of vitamin D are u taking? How many iu’s per day?
And u’d be surprised how differently the body and mind react to exogenous hormones when ur optimizing it’s overall function with diet, supplementation and lifestyle factors. It’s probably a balance of upping ur dose and optimizing ur body. What dose of test were u using prior before upping it?
1 Like
Sounds rather Vertical to me!
We have 5000 IU so I’m taking that. How about you?
I went from 220-308 mg.
Wow big jump in ur test dose. Just glad to hear that it’s working so well for u so far!
And I take the same. 5K iu’s per day. Been taking for a while now
And ya my diet is pretty similar to the vertical diet I would say. I definitely think the vertical diet is a great way for people to transition into eating healthier and getting all the micronutrients their bodies need to function optimally. Stan efferding might be big and jacked, but he’s actually extremely smart. He’s started and ran multiple multi million dollar businesses. The guy is just great at figuring sh*t out
1 Like
Had my follow-up in Boston. The doc is concerned about the dose escalating, and thinks I should be taking 160/week, because of HCT.
Yet, given that my HCT is at 48.8, I don’t think that’s a huge worry at this point – though it’s something to keep an eye on.
I was more concerned about cholesterol – but, interestingly, he didn’t seem to think TRT has a very strong effect on lipids. He was more focused on HCT.
I’m chatting with Saya Monday for a second opinion. My guess is that he’ll be in favor of the high T dose given that’s it’s made me feel so much better, but we shall see. He seems to be more of a “how do you feel” guy, whereas the Boston doc is more “how do the numbers look.” Boston doc is also in the “keep estrogen in check” camp, which obviously doesn’t line up with how many see E2 these days.
I’m not saying more is always better, but I tend to feel better with higher E2 (even pushing 100).
Bottom line is I feel way better, in every way, at 308/week than I did at 160…yet I guess pretty much everyone would. And I’m not trying to die young 
So still deliberating how to proceed.
Ya I briefly went to a hormone clinic in Boston. They were expensive, didn’t know what they were doing, and couldn’t care less about me as a person and how I was doing. Finding Defy was a literal godsend. Been with them about 5-6 years now and couldn’t be any happier. I originally saw Dr saya and now do my consults with a guy Mike Linkus. He’s awesome. I would 100% ditch that Boston doc and go with Defy if I were u.
Ur HCT is only 48.8 and ur doc is concerned?? Ya that’s ridiculous. I personally think the sweet spot for HCT is around 47-51. Or maybe even 52. I don’t even begin to worry about HCT until mine gets to 55+, which rarely ever happens, and I’m on 250 test, 125 deca, 100 primo. Well recently switched to 250 test, 100NPP and 125 primo. But my last set of labs were using the first protocol I mentioned. Can’t remember exactly what my HCT was, but it wasn’t very high at all. Maybe around 52 IIRC. And I was in 475mg of total androgens, compared to ur 300mg. I wouldn’t be concerned at all about longevity on ur dose. U can 100% maintain great labs and health markers and overall health on that dose of just test.
TRT can have an effect on lipids, but if ur using straight test it shouldn’t be bad. It might lower HDL a little, and raise LDL slightly or have a neutral effect on LDL, but it should improve triglycerides, which is the most important lipid marker imo.
I wouldn’t change a thing about ur protocol if ur feeling really good. I’m sure Dr saya will have np with u sticking to ur current dose if that’s what u want to do. As long as ur pretty healthy with ur diet, which u are, and focus on being healthy with other lifestyle factors, and can keep ur bloodwork pretty healthy, I’m sure defy will allow u to stick to the dose ur currently on
1 Like
I’m a health freak btw and longevity is extremely important to me. I’m confident that I can maintain great overall health and live a very long life continuing to use the protocol that I am, again 250 test, 100 NPP and 125 primo. So don’t worry at all about using just 308mg of test per week. U’ll be absolutely fine, I promise u lol
1 Like
@Gman86 @anon18050987 I value both of your opinions Obviously you have different perspectives but both very knowledgeable and I appreciate you helping me here! Much love, guys.
1 Like
Had my follow-up yesterday, and this is how it played out. Dr. Saya is not concerned about my HCT – which I think is reasonable – though he does think that’s the key variable to monitor with long-term high exogenous T intake. He also wants to pay attention to HDL, which I am fully on board with, as well as CRP (which had crept up to 2, but that may be a fluke).
Dr. Saya is good with me trying out 308/week for 6 months. His perspective is – if this has me feeling good, let’s try it out for a time and see how bloodwork changes. If things look worse, then we can lower the dose. He also mentioned the possibility of auxiliaries for lowering SHBG, but I have never felt like myself with Danazol, Oxandrolone, etc. Given that I don’t want to take something like this, and that my SHBG is always quite high, he said high T is the most reasonable path to feeling good.
2 Likes