Wow, insane. If I am interpreting correctly, your HDL went from 62 to TWENTY?! Sorry if I’m missing this, but what was the exact change in your Free T, given the drop in total and SHBG? I know your provider was surprised by it.
Briefly, it probably doesn’t make a kick of difference long term. But as we all know with anabolic steroids, exposure is almost always chronic and cumulative.
Stanozolol may very well drive HDL down to single digits. I’m not sure why you’ve chosen stanozolol as opposed to methenolone, drostanolone or oxandrolone. Stanozolol is without a doubt the most toxic and potent out of the four.
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In the name of science or the name of gainz? No need to beat around the bush.
If you want to blast, then by all means; go ahead. You’ve acquired a wealth of knowledge as to definitely ascertain the risk/reward ratio.
You have access to physician assisted ministering and a legal means of procuring the stanozolol. Chances of serious complications stemming from brief experimentation are admittedly low. In an acute context hepatotoxicity is probably the largest concern. Have you taken a c-17 alpha alklylated androgen aside from oxandrolone before?
An unexpected side effect many don’t mention… Chronic acid reflux, nasty stuff.
What grinds my gears is when I see those with “Yolo” attitudes haphazardly blasting 700mg tren 400mg winny, 500mg mast, 300mg test for six months at a time.
Hdl-C can’t be -15, I assume you are referring to below 15mg/dl. 0 is theoretically the lowest it can get. From anecdotes/literature available is only takes around seven days for stanozolol to impart it’s disastrous effects on serum lipids.
I’ll link some literature later documenting bodybuilders on cycle, for some HDL-c dropped as low as 2! #atherosclerosis
I’ve almost certainly had my HDL in the single digits before. I’d wager the majority on the pharma forum have. All it takes is virtually any use of c-17 alpha alklylated androgens and/or tren.
Though drostanolone has only ever been approved as adjunct therapy for ER positive carcinoma of the breast in postmenopausal women. I’ve seen one or two cases in forums wherein people have managed to acquire a prescription for drostanolone. Though successfully filling the script is another story alltogether
Could probably net 2-3 quality pounds out of it. Enough to make a fairly drastic difference. Aesthetically whilst on you’ll probably look as if you’ve put on 5+ lbs due to glycogen retention, the addition of a grainy, dry look etc.
I’m betting stanozolol will be harsher than oxandrolone, though my curiosity is peaked.
Haa
How ironic. A heart suregon prescribing the one drug known to screw up lipids perhaps more than any other drug approved by the FDA.
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No need to drop down to 5% unless you’re stepping on stage or competing in the tour de france, otherwise doing so would be absolutely excessive and you’d most certainly feel like shit. I’m neither encouraging not discouraging use here. This is your perogative.
8% is more than lean enough. Why would you possibly desire to get even leaner? Think of the metabolic and endocrine consequences associated with getting down to 5% BF.
If you want to use the stanozolol, use it. If not, shelve it.
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5% equates to having skin the consistency of an erect penis. Your face will be sunken in like a prisoner of war, it’s not an attractive look.
Gym performance will suffer too
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I take painkillers on script. It’s not an avenue you’d want to go down. Barring the notion of opiate mediated immunosuppression, the potential for hyperanalgesia, dependence/tolerance following prolonged use, the misuse potential and more there’s also the stigma you face when explaining your dilemma to various practitioners
Interestingly I’ve never developed a tolerance, presumably because I use to elicit a therapeutic effect regarding pain control as opposed to looking for a rush/euphoric effect. Nor do I use daily.
With opiates the initial feeling of serenity wears off quickly, I’ve seen people follow a path of dramatically escalating dosages ending in serious dependence/addiction. They’re nasty drugs and should only be used for acute moderate to severe pain, cancer pain, palliative care and as an absolute last resort for chronic non-cancer pain.
Get an import permit, the therapeutic indication being a lack of gainz.
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Raising HDL is tricky business. Niacin is probably the most effective drug on the market as doing so.
Even then, a 30% increase with HDL-C being 10 is HDL-C of 13. Niacin also has the potential to impair glucose tolerance, induce transient to clinically significant hepatotoxicity. Flushing is also a rather universal side effect making the medication rather poorly tolerated.
Anecdotally, citrus bermagot did nothing for my cholesterol. A decent Red yeast Rice supplement (containing unregulated doses of lovastatin, and potential citrinin contamination) dropped my LDL by around 40%.
I don’t know
It’s an unsolved mystery
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My baseline is 43 
I don’t take RYR anymore, given the prospect of citrinin contamination and a lack of regulation surrounding lovastatin dose per capsule/batch I just take a low dose statin. 20mg simvastatin/day for me equates to a near 50% drop in LDL and a 10% increase for HDL. No physical side effects noted, nor could I see any on comprehensive blood work
New HDL baseline is closer to 50.
Yeet
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How do you do with body image/orthorexia? Not an issue for some, but I struggled with it a lot when I focused on staying sub-10%
No need to apologize. I’m enjoying the discussion!
The gradual accrual in size approach is certainly healthier than the bulk/cut approach, the problem is it requires a lot of patience.
I haven’t done a "bulk’’ in almost two years. Though I’m thinking of getting into boxing and trying to simultaneously bulk up a little bit at the same time. At my height (around 5’5-5’6… I think) 175lbs at 15%BF would look pretty good.
I’m sorry if I’m misunderstanding (pretty sure I am) – are you saying a considerable lowering of your HDL probably isn’t that big of a deal?
No, a considerable lowering of HDL for a few weeks isn’t a big deal. Cumulatively (over years and years) it is a big deal. Plaque takes a long time to develop, you won’t wake up with clogged arteries overnight.
Even those with homozygous FH (LDL can be of 500+) with normal/lowish HDL make it to around 20-30 (untreated)
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Got it. When we’re talking long term, what do you think is a wise threshold? My HDL has typically hovered in the low-mid 40s, was 35 last test and I’m sure will be lower once oxandrolone is introduced.
Generally above 40mg/dl, above 60mg/dl is “optimal”, however HDL is largely genetic. At a baseline of 40 you aren’t getting to 60+.
Ratios also matter, as does particle size, triglycerides, the amount of oxidative stress your body is encountering on a daily basis etc. HDL of 20 LDL of 60 isn’t nearly as bad as HDL of 25 LDL of 160 etc.
On orals HDL will probably be in the low teens/single digits. LDL will shoot up 50-100%. Orals are also more potent than most injectables. That “glycogen filled, full, dry” look from DHT derived c17-AA orals is difficult to replicate.
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I made a push this year, given my son’s arrival, to become less physique-focused. It’s a struggle for me, as I have OCD tendencies, but preoccupation with your body’s appearance isn’t fun, nor is it conducive to a meaningful life.
Something that’s helped: allowing myself some order, but not too much. When I was tracking everything (weight, BF, nutrition, steps, etc), I got obsessive. I’d be constantly thinking about my goals, daydreaming about food, etc. It occupied way too much mental bandwidth.
My new approach, which has been great: only track weight (each morning) and set a target weight for the month. This ensures positive momentum.
My goal for this month was 175-177, which aligns with my goal to slowly build mass (as my goal the previous month was 173-175). As long as I’ve generally stayed within that threshold – and of course ensured I’m eating adequate protein and training, both of which come naturally at this point – I don’t feel a need to be vigilant throughout the day.
This allows for much better lifestyle flexibility and enjoyment of social situations. I know my wife likes this version of me more!
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Fascinating. I’m not expecting to be thrilled with the cholesterol results of the var. I imagine it’ll be enough to scare me off, like @anon18050987 back in the day. But I’m also curious how it’ll affect my SHBG. Lowest I’ve ever seen (on 25 MG ED Danazol) was 46. I bet 50 mg oxandrolone EOD will take it even lower.