Is this what I can expect
Is there anyone in this board that can post a before Darden routine picture and an after Darden routine picture? Anyone?
Everything says it is impossible without supplements which is almost the same as hormones or drugs
What post are you responding too?
I was expecting to see a program with details
==Scott==
Thatās a good question? I donāt know how long 30 10 30 has been out? I find I like it because it seems to dig as deep an inroad ( I hate that word) as when I was doing 2 sets of 10-15 to failure but itās much easier on my recovery system. I recover pretty quick from it. Iām going up on reps every workout but Its to early to know if Iām actually building any muscle size? Who cares if I go up 30 pounds of weight on a machine if I have nothing to show for it physically ? At first I wasnāt thrilled with it but Iāve gotten to like it. I find it easier to use on machines.
You could ask that same question on anyone using any specific routine. So many have gone through multiple programs in their career itās hard to see which one actually takes the credit for their build.
Your opinion/lie is noted!
Same old custodian behavior!
Good day
There was
Ha Ha
The paper by Ogborn is interesting. But Iād highlight the following points:
āCumulatively, these two studies favour fast eccentric actions for the development of both muscle strength and hypertrophy over both concentric contractions alone and slow-eccentric actions. While such a response may be due to the fact that fast eccentric actions promote greater torque production and muscle damage than slow (29) (data from (23) disputes part of this) that may promote elevated hypertrophy (27), more experiments are required to clarify such relationships. We also cannot rule out that these results are dependent on use of isokinetic training, and as such may not translate to what most of us actually do in the gym.ā
And:
āIn researching this article, Iāve realized that despite the wealth of data on eccentric actions, there is very little regarding the use of tempo under isotonic (or dynamic, constant, external resistance if youāre paid by the syllable) conditions, or simply put, stuff weād actually pick up in the gym.ā
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So was there anything in laymenās terms in the article that mentioned what was ment by fast eccentrics ? As someone mentioned in an example earlier a fast eccentric can be when someone is benching for reps at one second . Thereās a big difference between a 30 second negative and one second.
Scott
āWhile tempo may ultimately be irrelevant for pure hypertrophic adaptations when training to failure, these studies suggest that there isnāt a hypertrophic benefit from exaggerating the eccentric phase with slow velocities.ā
Dr. Ogborn
I concur
Do various rep sets
Sets of 3
Sets of 8-12
Sets up to 25 reps
Plain old vanilla reps
Fast isokinetic was about 180 degrees of rotation per second. So if you were doing a leg extension exercise with 90 degrees of motion, you would have to execute the eccentric in 0.5 seconds, with full resistance against the movement on your part. Since you normally initiate the eccentric by releasing tension on the weight to let it fall, you can never execute a fast, fully resisted eccentric with a conventional leg extension machine.
Basically, you have to have access to specialized isokinetic equipment in order to perform exercises at the fast tempos used in these studies. That is why Ogborn mentioned the caveatās that I highlighted in bold.
studies suggest that there isnāt a hypertrophic benefit from exaggerating the eccentric phase with slow velocities.ā
== Scott ==
So in your estimation wouldnāt that mean there was no benefit to a 30 second negative over a one second negative as far as hypertrophy is concerned?
Agree, there is nothing in the literature to suggest that exaggerating the eccentric has a hypertrophy benefit. But the evidence is very limited, especially when you are talking about conventional isotonic exercise. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Maybe Dr Darden has found a sweet spot, close to failure, where extending the eccentric does have a benefit. Maybe he hasnāt. Maybe more research is neededā¦
Everyone that I have ever seen with my own eyeballs that was muscular lifted heavier weights than average trainees. To a man, muscular men were strong. They maybe exceptions, but I have not personally witnessed the exceptions.
30 second eccentrics must incorporate lighter weights. Lighter weights do not recruit fast twitch fibers well, mostly before the end of a failure set. On the other hand, heavier weights recruit fast twitch fibers much faster and longer. Do not believe the SuperSlow lie that slower rep tempo speeds allow more muscle cross bridges. Cross bridge activity occurs in milli-seconds. I brought out this SuperSlow lie on the old site. Dr. M does not like the truth.
I see no issue with fast eccentrics. Fast eccentrics are not plyometrics.
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I would compare Dr Dardens 30 10 30 to X Force. The X force eccentric moves faster than 30 seconds but digs a deeper inroad which in the end requires a much longer recovery time than 30 10 30 of which you can recover from quite easily in comparison. I could be wrong but I think Dr Darden is trying to give us folk who donāt have access to XForce a similar workout thatās delivers similar and excellent results with existing machines and equipment?
Scott
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30/10/30 promotes # 10 reps at a 1 second concentric combined with a 2 second eccentric.
All are stronger in the eccentric. If a 1 second concentric is safe, surely a 1 second eccentric is safe since everyone is much stronger eccentrically.
Therefore, a 1 second eccentric Should be fine, ie. Vanilla Reps.
According to his books, 30-30-30 was the the method to mimic the xforce equipmentā¦he then came up with 30-10-30 because most trainees could not get the hang of the 30 second concentric portion of 30-30-30
80% of a typical load that one performs for 10-12 reps (typically somewhere between 20-60 seconds) done for around 90 seconds is not necessarily light , especially when one starts to master the technique and that difference will narrow.
Donāt forget 30-10-30 is ONE negative emphasised technique among several , and one that can be adapted to the individual over time.
On hamstrings for example if doing the 30-10-30 I would typically do a 15-6-15 , as that falls within a TUL that they respond to. The weights I use are just as heavy as regular reps .
Whilst i donāt have an issue with relatively fast eccentrics , i do see value in controlling the negative, and I definitely believe that Dr Darden is on to something with these more recent adaptations of negative emphasised training.
Whether one does 2 second negatives. 20 second negatives, rest pause, static holds, drop sets etc etc , they are only tools , and tools which exist within the context of progressive overload training , which is the fundamental thing to consider , and one which often gets ignored when discussing āderivativeā points.
Mark
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