The force applied matters. Lower the resistance to accommodate artificial slowed tempos will not innervate as many fibers. Training to failure helps, but at the risk running afoul with products of fatigue, and or metal fatigue/willingness to push through pain. However, training of all methods produces results which is good. I come to Mr. Johnston views that rhymatic reps are as good as any, and without the mental fatigue of counting rep speeds.
If one wants to train tediously, have at it.
The flaw in the Super Slow literature is that moving slowly with light loads (i.e., deliberately slow) does not lead to increased cross bridge formation. Cross bridges only form when they are needed to create more muscle tension. A 10-second rep only requires maximum cross bridge formation if you giving maximum effort, and it still takes 10 seconds to complete the movement.
Yes sir
Why the specific negative attention on SuperSlow? It would be more uplifting to discuss what methods actually work - than what doesnât?
I suppose 30-30-30 is to be considered a SuperSlow protocol. It will be hard to convince me that it doesnât work - from a scientific standpoint - when I have my own logbook proving the opposite. Here my proven experience outweighs science. I donât care if its âwrongâ when it works. But - I still would not apply i in the deadlift - for ergonomic reasons and the eventual risk of injury.
Common sense is the mother of all rules.
== Scott==
Iâm guessing he thinks he debunked super slow as a fraud with all this cross fiber study talk and now he wants to show through more studies that Dardens 30 30 30 or 30 10 30 is a fraud as well inspite of the fact that many have great success with it. One thing I like about Dr Darden is that he doesnât present graphs and charts and incomprehensible studies to support his theories , he shows real world people making real world progress with his programs in simple down to earth terms.
Because of the self-promotion as being a superior methodology compared to other methods with a lack of facts and logic, not to mention empirical evidence.
Dr, Darden makes no such claims.
Another lie from Scott. Do you lie all the time?
I actually like the primary 30 second eccentric as a slow warmup and stretch.
Furthermore, I like the concluding 30 second eccentric as a post failure technique.
I said I guessed you did something, I didnât state that you had. Do you know the difference?
Scott
You really need to calm down and take a breath.
Me tooâŠcrap!
trying to compete with Bryce Lee doing 4 strict reps with 70 lbs⊠I have a way to go⊠just being. silly, having fun⊠70 lbs on belt chin attempt - YouTube
When people say theyâve gained muscle while losing fat you wonder what category they fit in. If itâs a guy thatâs been training for years (Viator) and who goes up and down in muscle and body fats level you obviously have muscle memory in play, which has been proven to be enhanced by prior drug use BTW. But even without the drug use, if you been more muscular in the past itâs probably pretty likely you could do both at the same time.
It might be likely for a guy with a lot of excess fat to lose, but even if youâre at say 25% bf I think itâs unlikely you are going to put on a lot of brand new muscle youâve never had before, if any, without being in a calorie surplus.
== Scott ==.
Oh my god, as if I wasnât feeling wimpy enough with my chinning you gotta show me this! Ha ha ! Maybe I should just take up knitting !
I donât contribute much other than videos, because I donât like to get into debates, so likely wonât reply much if this stirs the pot, but as I read your thread on trying to get better at chins and or pullups, and the tips from different people, my thoughts are the following⊠âwho caresâ (and I say this right after posting me trying to do chins to compete with someone else, and I routinely test myself as I get older, to maintain an ability to do at least 6 strict chins with bodyweight using 4 2 4 cadence (last time I did 7), but that is just for fun) (and the ego of an old guy)âŠ
However, what I believe is that I donât want to get stronger to do more of a certain exercise, but rather I want to do certain exercises employing various protocols in order to get stronger and hopefully build muscle as well. (not sure those are the same and I have a wild guess that other than skill, neurological efficiency and other factors, you can get stronger by changing your ratio of different fibre types or muscle density (if thatâs even a term) without actually gaining overall muscle). the other reason I donât post much is because I start to ramble. Sorry about that. All the best in everyoneâs training!
If it makes you feel any better, Bob Hoffman, the guy who owned York Barbell and started a couple of legendary muscle magazines, always lamented (humorously) that he was terrible at the overhead press.
Perhaps you will enjoy this piece from long ago:
I have laid claim to the title, for some time, of the worldâs worst presser. I know another instructor who is just as bad but he doesnât brag about it as I do. All through my lifting career my poor pressing ability has been the bane of my existence. When I first received my barbell back in 1923, I made a bad press with 80 pounds and a clean and jerk with 150. A year later I could only two hands press 115, yet could clean and jerk 225 and bent press 150. Moat any fairly strong fellow around the Y could press 115 so it was thought that my ability on other lifts was just knack. When I lifted shortly after my auto accident in 1932 against the German American A.C. in the first contest which we won from them, I pressed only 121 and cleaned and jerked 236. In our contests of 1931 and 1932 when the York Oil Burner A.C. was rising to the top of the weightlifting world, I repeatedly pressed only 135 and clean and jerked 260. In one contest I pressed 135 and clean and jerked 265.
This was no fun. Ladies present would say to Rosetta, âI thought you said your husband was strong. There he is out there pressing with the little fellows.â Thatâs why I had to become a good cleaner and jerker, to make the highest lift in contest after contest. I often made my first press at 125. One year when I was present at the New England championships the lowest lift made was 140 pounds in the press. And there were 112 and 118 pounders present. How would I feel, with my 230 pounds bodyweight at that time, to start first. But what lifters were there! Little men like Lucien La Plante, 112 pound champion of America and record holder; Ralph Viera, later 118 pound senior champion; a little colored fellow; Charlie Arbrushâs brother, who pressed 150 pounds, and men like Vincent Fee, present junior national 118 pound champion.
I finally gave up on the press. Every man that ever became a member of our team went past me on the press. Some of them progressed from 115 to 185 in a single year, while I stood still. Gord Venables gained from 115 to 205 in less than one year. The crowning ignominy of my pressing career took place one day early in October of 1934. I had stopped training on the press, and that day could make only 145 in military, or even continental style. Yet I jerked 295 very easily, bent pressed 200 for the first time, and snatched 205 for the first time. A distinction I suppose, but not a very honorable one.
Just what is the trouble when a man canât press, youâre wondering. I have lots of young men ask me to watch them pressing when they come to York, to tell them if their poor pressing ability is a question of bad leverage. Usually it is just lack of practice and shortage of strength. The width of shoulders in proportion to the length of the arms has something to do with it. The development of the shoulders has an important bearing on the pressing question, but the real reason for oneâs pressing strength is the proportion of the length of the upper to the lower arm. Good pressers have long upper arms, poor pressers have short upper arms. If a man is so built that the Humerus bone of the upper arm is long in proportion to the length of the ulna and radius of the lower arm, that man can not hope to be a good presser.
== Scott ==
Yes this and just about every forum Iâve been on can be debate central. Thereâs always someone to disagree with whatever you say. I never really gave a fig about chins ( probably my down fall) and when I recently tried one again for he first time in many years I was astounded how pathetic I was at them so I started to try them again. Years ago I did about 4 but so far only after practically concentrating on them and nothing else was I able to do one . I think I put up a video of me doing them on the old forum long ago. I think they were or are on my photo bucket album ( if that still exists?)!Now Iâm focusing on 30 10 30 and have let up some on my chin efforts so Iâm back to square one but you are right , who cares!! Maybe the forum needs a baby pool section for â wannabesâ like me , ha ha!!
Thanks for your reply!
Considering you (seem to) prefer being backed up by science - which I have no problem with - How do you train? What does your routine look like?
I rely heavily on science (and proven experience) in my work as an MD. One canât be without the other. Curiousity, empathy and gut feeling (another type of experience) are other factors that provide vital information. The same âparametersâ can be applied on excercise as phenomenon - for good outcomes. (You may want to add a degree of acceptance, in order to deal with any failed attempts).
Thanks for the encouragement !!
Scott
BEFORE anyone beats up on themselves, consider that the average height and weight of infantrymen in Second World War was 5â 8â and 140-150 lbs. donât compare yourself to unrealistic examples.
== Scott==
You just said you can do 6 or 7 and I forget your weight ? I weigh about 185 and have lifted on or off forever so I donât think I have unrealistic expectations??