Rapid-Onset Gender Dysphoria in Adolescents and Young Adults

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I understand you’re joking and I did have a little lol at your comment, but looking at it at face value is somewhat of a “problem” that society has, that we actively still make jokes or piss take from their problems which in many cases are deeply embedded in their mental psyche that it causes all sorts of mental and physical illnesses, essentially bullying them by making those jokes
Not trying to be PC because I’m really not, but I think we as a society will have a huge say in future generations in the way that these 'cases are treated

There is still a serious stigma surrounding the whole LGBQT scene is a fad, a joke, some would even say a mental illness
And too an extent, some cases are.
I mean, as a straight 23 year old male, I have no right to judge anyone for any of their life choices. If you feel not right as your born gender, if you feel attracted to the same sex or if you enjoy dressing up in other genders clothing, then all power to you.

I don’t particularly agree with non binary gender fluids who morph between beliefs, nor do I agree with modern feminism (I make the emphasise on modern because I’m a huge advocate in equal rights and what femisim used to be, pre social media generation)

And again, no diss on you @Edgy , more of an observation ive had

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Shocking…

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a little levity helps to digest these types of discussions … kind of like a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down

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@ Shocking. Agree.

To the thread.

Some TG advocates wish to see less gatekeeping from physicians or therapists. Meaning, affirmation without question of anyone who expresses any gender identity. The idea being that identity is all fixed, and essential so the suggestion of therapy is offensive, bigoted, harmful. That’s pretty scary, IMO. Emphasis on the word some, because there is not a unified opinion on it, but we’re seeing this more coming from the gender studies people in the universities, and in some powerful advocacy groups. Everyone who disagrees with this is attacked as transphobic, etc…

On a positive note, more lesbian therapists and old-school feminists seem to be taking issue with the idea that because a young adolescent female likes plaid shirts and wood shop, that she’s somehow a male, or part male. Why make these definitions of gender identity dependent on culturally constructed stereotypes? Women can wear plaid, and like wood shop, or be attracted to other women and still be women. They’re seeing a lot of young girls who in a few years might come out as lesbian, getting caught up in these new definitions of TG, which can involve irreversible medical interventions.

More physicians are prescribing hormone blockers to delay puberty. Understandable, at trying to giving kids and families more time, even though that has it’s own risks.

Fortunately, we’re beginning to see more TG adults, and lesbian and gay people, as well as therapists and physicians voicing concern about what I would describe as a very vocal, and very powerful, far-left ideological wing of the TG advocacy movement. Also, with at least a few people willing to talk about some of the incoherent arguments these advocates are espousing.

@ Gatekeeping. This is what I mean by that.

For anyone who wants to go down the rabbit hole at understanding the ideology that is driving some of this.

She talks about legislation in the first 20 minutes. You may want to skip ahead. This is less about ROGD, and more to the topic of how the ideology. It’s evolved substantially since I first started thinking about this topic.

Also, there’s a very nice Q and A to this with her taking questions. Some of this really resonates with me. I’ve been told many times that I have a less emotional, more analytical personality like she mentions, “You think like a man.” That becomes very offensive right? As if women can’t be analytical. It’s hard to believe that this concept is coming from some of the gender identity advocates, attempting to sell the idea that people like me are non-binary/ queer/ gender fluid, or even trans based on some cultural stereotype.

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My one niece is a pretty good welder. She showed interest in it but was hesitant because its " mans work". I explained to her that women tend to have a higher degree of fine motor skills, and if she could take a couple of burns here and there, she’d probably be just fine. It only took her a few hours to develop the skill well enough to work at the place I was at.

She’s also just generally artistically talented and likes just about anything she can do or use to create. She did well in metal shop too, and last time we talked she was asking me about plasma cutters and which one would be good for home/crafty stuff.

Mostly because she wants something to do while she’s at home with the kids!:joy:

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Textbook case of rapid onset tradesmorphia.

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I speculate that part of the problem is that what use to be an actual “community” has become an all inclusive, never reject, we’ll take anyone no matter how absurd they label themselves side show. It’s now the LGBQT+ with the + containing half the alphabet and if you try to point out how ridiculous that is you’ll get attacked but anyone possessed by the ideology.

I know a handful of gay men who distance themselves and say they don’t belong to the LGBQT because they actively despise it. These same men plus one or two more have told me how stupid Pride is but they still go only because it’s a hookup scene.

I know the small minority I have talked to don’t speak for everyone but it’s easy to see when people who you would think want to belong to it actively disown it how it could be seen as a joke

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no dis taken, @anon96032531 - I really was just joking, and I understand that this is the issue on the news and in social media.

I have little to no experience in this and have no right to offer an opinion.

I just hope ya’all get it figured out - and SOON!!

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Absolutely
The whole + scene is ridiculous
And this even isn’t a joke, how someone can describe themselves as a “mesomorphe non binary apache helicopter with a-sexual tendacies” is beyond me, but somehow when someone says how ridiculous it is, they get called a bigot or labelled as a abuser.
And as you just said about certain people who would be apart of the LGBTQ scene, I too know of people who don’t actively promote there part within the scene for the same reasons

And don’t even get me started on the small but unfortunately growing group of sick and twisted individuals who say they are attracted to small children but are protected because they have sided within the community

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@ Peer pressure in some of these peer groups.

I don’t think people imagined this. Quote from a WSJ Op Ed related to the Brown study in the OP.

Not all social pressure was positive. Many respondents said their children’s friends frequently mocked or derided people who were not gay or transgender. “To be heterosexual, comfortable with the gender you were assigned at birth, and non-minority places you in the ‘most evil’ of categories within this group of friends,” one parent observed. Parents often said that children who had second thoughts about being transgender feared social repercussions. “[My child] couldn’t face the stigma of going back to school and being branded as fake or phony . . . or worse, a traitor or some kind of betrayer,” one reported.

It made me think of some of these lonely Incels who find a sense of friendship in online forums of other disaffected young men. Then if they finally decide that it might be reasonable to find a female companion, they are ostracized by all their Incel friends.

We have some really strange subcultures or ingroups forming through social media. Like weirdos who talk BBing all the time. wink.

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Same. Sometimes these activists talk like they speak for ALL the people in the LGBTQ community. Sadly, I think some of these more extreme views have taken center stage among some of the mainstream LGBT advocacy groups. I know a lesbian therapist who is really upset about it.

Some of this new gender philosophy/ doctrine makes absolutely no sense from any kind of scientific perspective, IMO.

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Do you believe that some of it makes sense and which parts? I only know what I see from social media which is usually the more outrageous stuff so I don’t know if there’s more to it than that.

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Besides people who are intersex, I think there are some TG people who really have a physical or neurological issue. Perhaps that their brains have been masculinized or feminized in the womb, before birth. That’s not well understood, but it seems possible to me, and I feel some compassion for those people. I suspect that neuroscientists will continue to learn more about this over our lifetime. That’s an example of TG from just a few short years ago.

Regardless, I’m going to treat people I come across with respect or civility, even though I may not agree with this new TG doctrine. I think doctrine is a good word for it.

Otherwise, I see no need to buy into these ideas that biological sex has no meaning at all, but gender identity is very fixed, unless it isn’t and then it’s fluid and I’m going to need a different colored bracelet for days I’m identifying as Male, or some list of made up genders like Astrogender (Bright!! Like a star!!) etc… No wonder young kids are very confused.

“Do you mean that if I’m very competitive and like short hair, that I’m male? and I should identify as demiboy?” Good grief. Look at how far that has come from the first example I gave.

It’s a bit astonishing to me that people are using cultural stereotypes related to hobbies or fashion, or personality likes and dislikes to define something that is supposed to be more fixed and essential than chromosomes or physiology.

He likes flowers and poetry, so he’s told that he’s some other gender besides male. No. Men can like flowers and poetry and still identify as men. They can be gay, and still be men. There’s a huge range of traits that are within the range of what men do.

It gets really circular and confusing very fast. That kind of thing is just people with a theory, playing with linguistics, or using this issue to put forth a worldview. It’s another form of politics or philosophy. For me, the emperor has no clothes.

If you get a chance to watch the videos I put up, I think she’s a smart person, asking some very reasonable questions. She uses the word doctrine. I think that’s accurate.

Edited to add: I agree with her when she says that we can treat people with respect or civility without agreeing or accepting all of their ideology. Disagreeing with this does not make someone a… insert list of evils.

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It’s easier to dismiss/conveniently ignore what someone is saying if you make them a monster. This works best if you infer additional intent beyond what was said so you can really treat them as a horrible villain.

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There was a letter written by someone who disputed the core arguments presented in the article that the Atlantic also published, but I cannot find it.

The basic conflict appears to be just how much can you trust a child (because hormone therapy works best when you start it before puberty) when they make definitive statements about their gender identity.

Here’s what bothers me about this- you’re asking children to be capable of making informed decisions that WILL impact the rest of their lives.

…

Do you honestly trust your child under the age of 12 to be able to make an informed decision?

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I remember going to a friend’s place, we were going to go out to eat dinner. They had decided to give “grown up” decisions to their 11 year old. Where we would eat dinner is an example of a grown up decision.

You can imagine my bemusement at my dining experience being chosen by a child that less than a month previous I was fishing out of a garbage bin. They were in a garbage bin because they decided it was funny to hide in (with garage in it, mind you).

I wasn’t let down, I ended up going to a horrid place that was 45 minutes away to boot but they had a ball pit so, cool.

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@magick, thanks so much for posting The Atlantic article. I had not seen that. They did a fantastic job of posting all the sides of the adolescent dysphoria issue.

The embedded video of Carey Callhan’s story was really poignant.

I appreciated the author’s conclusion, “The best way to build a system that fails fewer people is to acknowledge the staggering complexity of gender dysphoria—and to acknowledge just how early we are in the process of understanding it.”

I think we’re all participating in a fairly big experiment here.

Thank you so much,

Puff

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There’s never really a discussion about the effectiveness of this treatment either. I believe high suicide rates and mental illness continue in a significant majority of people who undergo hormone therapy and beyond.

So is it really treatment?

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My understanding based on what I’ve read is that hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery does work for adult trans individuals- they’ve spent a long time thinking about it and need to go through a lot of sessions with a therapist to receive the appropriate ok from the therapist for a sex reassignment surgery.

I honestly don’t have an issue with allowing kids to express themselves however they want, though I am willing to argue that the parent/adult needs to remember the fact that children are learning social mores from you and the environment they grow up in. That’s perfectly ok, and I think it’s perfectly ok for boys to wear dresses if they want and for girls to cut their hair short and play with G.I Joe or w.e.

But that is entirely different from taking a child at their word when they say they’re trans and would like to start transitioning at an early age.

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Oh, I found all those articles-