[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Ramo wrote:
Matt:
I kinda wanna look like one of them bodybuilders, but I would never openly admit this.
[/quote]
Ahhhh yes, makes a lot of sense! If this program doesn’t work I’ve heard P90-X has been getting people ripped, shredded, jacked, and swole for years.
2/7/09 Squat
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x5
315x3
345x3
375x6
Pause SQ
295x5
295x5
Power SQ Machine
225x12
315x10
365x8
Leg Curl
90x12
100x10
110x8
Back Ext w/ hold at top
Bx15
Bx15
Neck Harness
Some full range leg work…it felt good.
Ceph: A couple more questions now that I’ve become a bodybuilder.
Zubaz pants: are they in again? were they ever out?
Nair for men: Godsend or taking the easy road?
Body butter: Every day or only for special occasions?
I need to know. Thanks!
[quote]Ramo wrote:
2/7/09 Squat
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x5
315x3
345x3
375x6
Pause SQ
295x5
295x5
Power SQ Machine [/quote] My above post was spot on, it seems. [quote]
225x12
315x10
365x8
Leg Curl
90x12
100x10
110x8
Back Ext w/ hold at top
Bx15
Bx15
Neck Harness
Some full range leg work…it felt good.
Ceph: A couple more questions now that I’ve become a bodybuilder.
Zubaz pants: are they in again? were they ever out? [/quote] Who doesn’t like doing standing single-leg-cable-leg-curls-for-high-reps in them? [quote]
Nair for men: Godsend or taking the easy road? [/quote] If you still have hair somewhere (eyebrows are an exception, and on top of the head is all fake anyway), then you need to use more gear…
Or did you think that we actually keep shaving and plucking all the time? Nah. Why not just get bigger and less hairy at the same time.[quote]
I need to know. Thanks![/quote]
Don’t forget to buy Arnold’s Encyclopedia… The training Info is especially useful 
2/8/09 Bench Assist
Military
45x10
95x5
135x3
155x3
175x8
DB Military
60x10
70x8
75x8
Bent Pitcher Raise
20x15
25x12
25x12
Reverse EZ Curl
80x12
100x10
100x10
Wheel
Bx15
Bx15
Bx15
Shoulder Horn
40 minutes posing practice
30 minutes at Days Inn with a “client”. Thanks Ceph for the tips…really helped here. “Client” thanks you as well.
2/10/09 Deadlift
Deadlift
135x5
225x5
335x3
385x3
430x6
Russian DL
185x8
245x8
265x6
BB Shrug
225x12
315x12
385x10
385x10
Apex Row
190x12
200x10
200x10
210x10
HS High Row
225x12
275x10
275x10
Neck Harness
…
[quote]Ramo wrote:
2/10/09 Deadlift
Deadlift
135x5
225x5
335x3
385x3
430x6
Russian DL
185x8
245x8
265x6
BB Shrug [/quote] You can shrug after pulling? Next time put 100 lbs more on the bar for your deadlifts and get serious… [quote]
225x12
315x12
385x10
385x10
Apex Row
190x12
200x10
200x10
210x10
HS High Row
225x12
275x10
275x10
Neck Harness [/quote]<- See, if you were deadlifting properly you wouldn’t need pussy isolation-work 
[quote]
…[/quote]
Just annoying you a little, now that I know about your secret body-butter obsession…
Believe it or not Ceph, before you taught me how to use straps I had never done BB shrugs before. I have done plenty with DBs but wanted to start piling some weight on.
A question. Do you find your dick getting in the way? I’m serious…it’s like I have to be careful with the bar clipping me down there.
Also, do people who use this exercise successfully use a precise technique or favor piling on tons of weight and just heaving the bar around?
I still have a neck, which is a problem I seek to remedy. Also, I can already feel my lockout getting stronger.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Believe it or not Ceph, before you taught me how to use straps I had never done BB shrugs before. I have done plenty with DBs but wanted to start piling some weight on.
A question. Do you find your dick getting in the way? I’m serious…it’s like I have to be careful with the bar clipping me down there.
[/quote]
Same issue. Depends on your arm length I guess… I can’t do BTN shrugs at all as my ass gets in the way and thus I have to lean back some to get free ROM… And that kills my back
Just do DB Shrugs I guess… Front shrugs only work if you’re real limp and have huge quads. So yeah, keep doing some bodybuilding and then both conditions will be met automatically at some point 
[quote]
Also, do people who use this exercise successfully use a precise technique or favor piling on tons of weight and just heaving the bar around?
[/quote] Some swear by holding the weight at the top for 2 sec or some such (i.e., all the people at 200 lbs and under) and others prefer somewhat restricted rom (i.e. never mind if you can’t touch your ears with your shoulders, 2/3 or half-reps are fine) with much more weight.
The latter are usually way above 200 and hold IFBB pro-cards.
Difficult decision, huh?
To be honest with you though, I can’t shrug anything above the pink DB’s after rack-pulling or deadlifting heavy and for enough reps with a few breathers in-between…
I also pull the shoulders back and chest out+contract upper back(scapulae together etc) after each lockout, that kind of backwards-shrug takes everything out of my upper back in combination with the pulls themselves so I usually have trouble doing anything more than chins or pulldowns afterwards…
Never tried that shrug-back thing on a max pull, since I’ve never done any max pulling… So careful if you try it out.
[quote]
I still have a neck, which is a problem I seek to remedy. [/quote] a) Get fat or b) get big or c) get big&fat. That takes care of the neck… Or move your shrugs to a day where you can go all-out on them, like shoulder day (if it’s not close to back/DL day). That should speed up the process. [quote]Also, I can already feel my lockout getting stronger. [/quote] ← would be odd if it became weaker, no?
2/12/09 Bench
Bench
135x8
185x5
205x5
225x3
245x8
260x6
Pauses
225x5
225x4
2 Board
275x4
275x4
Scott Ext
90x12
110x10
110x15
Hanging Leg Raise
Bx15
Bx15
Bx15
Shoulder Horn
…
Unacceptable…starting to lose patience on the bench.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
2/12/09 Bench
Bench
135x8
185x5
205x5
225x3
245x8
260x6
Pauses
225x5
225x4
2 Board
275x4
275x4
Scott Ext
90x12
110x10
110x15
Hanging Leg Raise
Bx15
Bx15
Bx15
Shoulder Horn
…
Unacceptable…starting to lose patience on the bench. [/quote]
Mh… Eat more?
Also, how about using 5/3/1 for a while… I’m making some good progress on that atm.
Just use Wendler 5/3/1 principles on your main lifts (or only bench & CGP on different days or so) and do whatever the hell you want for assistance work…
The 10% jumps on work-sets -version seems a lot better than the 5% one, though, and 5+ week cycles seem a tad long as well… I do mine as 4-week cycles but do the deload every time instead of skipping it every now and again.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Mh… Eat more?
Also, how about using 5/3/1 for a while… I’m making some good progress on that atm.
Just use Wendler 5/3/1 principles on your main lifts (or only bench & CGP on different days or so) and do whatever the hell you want for assistance work…
The 10% jumps on work-sets -version seems a lot better than the 5% one, though, and 5+ week cycles seem a tad long as well… I do mine as 4-week cycles but do the deload every time instead of skipping it every now and again.
[/quote]
I admit I don’t know a ton about what Jim has put together besides what I’ve seen with Phil Wylie’s log/articles, but I understand it’s just short wave progressive overload.
I basically follow Rick Gaugler’s approach, which is similar. The difference I think is that Jim’s approach uses a 3/1 load/deload ratio, and mine is 4/1. If you think I should try Jim’s approach, maybe I will.
For a 335 projected max bench, what weights should I start with?
2/14/09 Squat
Squat
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x5
315x5
355x3
395x3
Pauses
315x3
315x3
Leg Curl
100x12
120x10
120x8
Neck Harness
…
[quote]Ramo wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Mh… Eat more?
Also, how about using 5/3/1 for a while… I’m making some good progress on that atm.
Just use Wendler 5/3/1 principles on your main lifts (or only bench & CGP on different days or so) and do whatever the hell you want for assistance work…
The 10% jumps on work-sets -version seems a lot better than the 5% one, though, and 5+ week cycles seem a tad long as well… I do mine as 4-week cycles but do the deload every time instead of skipping it every now and again.
I admit I don’t know a ton about what Jim has put together besides what I’ve seen with Phil Wylie’s log/articles, but I understand it’s just short wave progressive overload.
I basically follow Rick Gaugler’s approach, which is similar. The difference I think is that Jim’s approach uses a 3/1 load/deload ratio, and mine is 4/1. If you think I should try Jim’s approach, maybe I will.
[/quote] You can skip the deload if you feel like it and do 2 cycles back to back. I also use 4 week cycles instead of the original 5+ week cycles.[quote]
For a 335 projected max bench, what weights should I start with? [/quote]
First, if 335 is your max bench, then take 10 percent off of that (quite important, I started with my actual max on militaries and regret doing so… On the other hand, I used the reduced max for CGP’s and those are going up well and fairly fast.)
So 335*0.9 = ~301 … Make that 300.
Now, you get 3 “work”-sets per 5/3/1 lift (for example, squat, bench, dead, military… Basically just the 4 main lifts.)
Work sets are ramping sets, 2 ramping approaches are available.
I use the one Jim apparently prefers as well (and which feels closer to my previous bb ramping approach):
Wave 1 (warmup, then 65% of reduced 1RM * 5, 75% *5, 85% *5)
Wave 2 (warmup, then 70% *3, 80% *3, 90% *3)
Wave 3 (warmup, then 75% *5, 85% *3, 95% *1)
Wave 4 (warmup, then 60% *5, 65% *5, 70% *5 ← This is the deload wave and you can skip it every now and again… You could also take the week off, I believe. Jim answers tons of questions about 5/3/1 in his log or q&a at elitefts, worth a read…
Also, I the e-book is well worth the money imo. He gives you many ideas for assistance-work templates and so on. Soon he’ll have a dedicated 5/3/1 e-book out, btw…)
Now, this is all submaximal work… There is a trick to it all:
You rep out on your last work set each wave. I got 5 reps on the last set of wave 3 on CGP’s, for example.
You don’t have to rep it out, though, if you have a bad day or whatever, then you just try to get the rep-goal of the current wave and that’s it.
Works very well for me, as I’ve said.
The only thing where Jim messed up is the “bodybuilder”-assistance-work template. I wouldn’t be caught dead doing that ;D
Btw, the original program called for 3 workouts per week, and 4 chosen lifts/total workouts. You’d basically train on a 4-way over 3 days per week and thus the entire cycle of 4 waves (each wave having 4 workouts) would last slightly over 5 weeks.
I do it on a 6-way with 3 5/3/1 workouts thus far (CGP, St. Military and Rack Pull… Might use it on Squats as well, due to my 1-week waves, I’d have 2 low-back intensive days per week then… So I might stick with 3 lifts instead.) and like it a lot… A bit like Matt Kroc’s way of doing 5/3/1. He changed the wave-order to 3/5/1 btw, I still use the original.
Ok, hope this wasn’t too confusing… It’s a really simple system
Oh yeah, I forgot to give you the weights… Well, for your 335 (i.e. -10% = 301.5lbs… I guess you could use either 300 or 302.5, I’d say start with 300):
Wave/week 1: 1955, 2255, 2555(+AMAP)
Wave/week 2: 2103, 2403, 2703(+AMAP)
Wave/week 3: 2255, 2553, 285*1(+AMAP)
Wave/week 4: (you get the idea… This can be deload or another cycle)
In case that you don’t rep out on the last set due to feeling under the weather that day or so, no worries.
Submaximal work will still get you stronger…
Oh yeah, forgot to mention kind of a key part lol:
After each cycle, add some weight (+5 lbs for bench and military or similar, +10 lbs for squat and dead or similar) to your reduced max (i.e. now you’d use 305 for bench instead of 300).
Don’t add more than is suggested… Taking it easy here is key. Besides, you can look at how many extra reps you get on your all-out set and if you get like 10 reps total on your supposed 1-rep set, then I guess you can add 7.5 lbs (or 10, if you feel really adventurous on the bench) next cycle.
If you then barely manage extra reps after that, well, you went too heavy so only increase it by 2.5 or keep it the same for the following cycle…
At some point, you can replace your original lifts with variations of themselves or just focus on completely different lifts…
It’s a template for raw lifters, from what I’ve read, dunno about equipped guys.
Oh yeah… If you want more extra reps (if you were to do 5/3/1 with DB presses or rows or so or you are afraid of elbow tendonitis and don’t want to risk going too heavy… Or hell, if you want to use it with curls ;D) then I think you can just reduce your actual max by 15 or more percent… This isn’t official stuff/Wendler approved or anything, but I think it might work and I’ll try it some day…
This is good info, Ceph, thank you.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
This is good info, Ceph, thank you.[/quote]
No problem. Jim’s e-books are really worth the read and there you can see his original split approaches etc…
Pm me or check the big 5/3/1 thread in strength sports if you need more info or help or anything.
Jeez, half the posts in this thread have been by Ceph.
2/15/09 Bench Assist
Military
to 185x6
Pullup
Bx4x8 sets
BB Shrug
315x8
405x6x4 sets
Neck Harness
…
[quote]Bloobird wrote:
Jeez, half the posts in this thread have been by Ceph.[/quote]
Don’t make Ramo even more self-conscious than he already is.
He just discovered his closet-bodybuilder tendencies, after all.
2/17/09 Deadlift
Deadlift
135x5
225x5
315x5
405x3
505x1
555x1
BB Lunge
95x6
135x5
135x5
135x5
135x5
Hanging Pike
Bx5
Bx5
Bx5
Bx5
Bx5
Neck Harness
…
I had planned to work to around 455 for a triple or two…a couple lifters were prepping for a WABDL meet in a couple weeks and were working to heavy singles in their gear. I pulled with them and ended up taking 555 for a surprisingly easy single. Had at least 25-30 lbs in the tank, maybe a little more. No real grind at any point in the lift, real smooth lockout.
So I feel good about this…it’s nice when training has otherwise not been going as I would like.