[quote]WolBarret wrote:
WAIT A MINUTE. I didn’t my thread was move and this many people posted.
Now why is Bill Cosby considered an Uncle Tom by Mean Genes?[/quote]
He totally dissed Gandhi, too, did you see?
What’s next, meangenes? Are you going to slap Tweetybird out of the air? Push Mother Theresa into a mud puddle?
That cracked me up. You’re using it as, like, synonymous with “pal,” right?
Seriously, though, I’d be interested to hear why you consider Bill Cosby an Uncle Tom. It looks from where I stand like he’s been able to remain true to himself, particularly bearing in mind that he was born in 1937.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
WAIT A MINUTE. I didn’t my thread was move and this many people posted.
Now why is Bill Cosby considered an Uncle Tom by Mean Genes?
He totally dissed Gandhi, too, did you see?
What’s next, meangenes? Are you going to slap Tweetybird out of the air? Push Mother Theresa into a mud puddle?
Nigga please. I’ll be proud that I wasn’t an angry Uncle Tom wanna-be.
That cracked me up. You’re using it as, like, synonymous with “pal,” right?
Seriously, though, I’d be interested to hear why you consider Bill Cosby an Uncle Tom. It looks from where I stand like he’s been able to remain true to himself, particularly bearing in mind that he was born in 1937.
Bill Cosby talks more shit than I do. When I say shit, I mean that Bill Cosby is not an action oriented ‘activist’. He’s a talkavist.
It is easy to point a finger at the apparent problems in a community such as the black community. (Insert one of many here) It is not so easy to take a step back from your famous opinion on the black community and make steps toward improvement, especially when you sit comfortably amongst your fellow black elitists who are so diligently praised by whites as being ‘good niggers’ and this is what your image has always depended on.
“Bill Cosby was always nice to Theodores white friends, even when they weren’t so nice to Theo.” - You. Let me know when you find another black kid by the name of Theodore.
Cosby makes headlines with his “Rappers shouldn’t use n-word in their songs” bullshit. I beg you all to take a college course in African American Show Business. Here’s why. Look back at the times that Cosby lived especially the times of “The Cosby Show”. Who was the president in office? What was the main focus of show business? Why would we put an African American family on television depicting African Americans so with such integrity. Not so blacks could watch the show and relate, well of course, my poor Uncle Meppis wanted to wear Coogi as well, but so whites could watch it. So a perspective could be given. And your dumb ass fell for it.
Anyone ever know a model black family such as the Cosbys? Anything close?
So yes, there was a perspective given and it allowed you to formulate that there are good black people and bad black people. Good black people have money, bad black people are poor. Could it get any more segregated/racist/bigot?
Popular opinion; white people have most of the wealth in America. Fact; white people have most of the wealth in America. Tell me how a middle class (largest class) African American family is properly represented here?
Now that’s not to say that all of Bill Cosbys fame/fortune came from the Cosby show. But fat portion of it.
Once again blacks being exploited for entertainment value. Once again show business creating images for the public to lap up so effortlessly. Once again the middle class being left to dream.
Back to the rappers. Rappers can exploit hip hop culture all they want. The shit sells. And who does it sell to? White kids in the suburbs, I know I was raised amongst them. And sure black kids can dream of rolling in an Escalade on 24’s. Uncle Meppis dreamed of wearing Coogi, I dreamed my Dad was as caring as Bill was too. See the relation? If you can’t you’re stupid and I have nothing else to say to you because your just in denial.
Trust me, we don’t want to get into a discussion on why it is ok for black people to exploit their own culture for profit from whites (e.g. n-word) besides the fact that hip-hop and showbiz at large are financially governed by rich white Jewish Hollywood execs. But hip hop is a come-up. Bill Cosby should be actively figuring out ways to better market it. Instead of pointing his fucking finger. Fucking hypocrite Uncle Tom.
[quote]meangenes wrote:
Why Bill Cosby is an Uncle Tom.
Bill Cosby talks more shit than I do. When I say shit, I mean that Bill Cosby is not an action oriented ‘activist’. He’s a talkavist.
It is easy to point a finger at the apparent problems in a community such as the black community. (Insert one of many here) It is not so easy to take a step back from your famous opinion on the black community and make steps toward improvement, especially when you sit comfortably amongst your fellow black elitists who are so diligently praised by whites as being ‘good niggers’ and this is what your image has always depended on.
“Bill Cosby was always nice to Theodores white friends, even when they weren’t so nice to Theo.” - You. Let me know when you find another black kid by the name of Theodore.
Cosby makes headlines with his “Rappers shouldn’t use n-word in their songs” bullshit. I beg you all to take a college course in African American Show Business. Here’s why. Look back at the times that Cosby lived especially the times of “The Cosby Show”. Who was the president in office? What was the main focus of show business? Why would we put an African American family on television depicting African Americans so with such integrity. Not so blacks could watch the show and relate, well of course, my poor Uncle Meppis wanted to wear Coogi as well, but so whites could watch it. So a perspective could be given. And your dumb ass fell for it.
Anyone ever know a model black family such as the Cosbys? Anything close?
So yes, there was a perspective given and it allowed you to formulate that there are good black people and bad black people. Good black people have money, bad black people are poor. Could it get any more segregated/racist/bigot?
Popular opinion; white people have most of the wealth in America. Fact; white people have most of the wealth in America. Tell me how a middle class (largest class) African American family is properly represented here?
Now that’s not to say that all of Bill Cosbys fame/fortune came from the Cosby show. But fat portion of it.
Once again blacks being exploited for entertainment value. Once again show business creating images for the public to lap up so effortlessly. Once again the middle class being left to dream.
Back to the rappers. Rappers can exploit hip hop culture all they want. The shit sells. And who does it sell to? White kids in the suburbs, I know I was raised amongst them. And sure black kids can dream of rolling in an Escalade on 24’s. Uncle Meppis dreamed of wearing Coogi, I dreamed my Dad was as caring as Bill was too. See the relation? If you can’t you’re stupid and I have nothing else to say to you because your just in denial.
Trust me, we don’t want to get into a discussion on why it is ok for black people to exploit their own culture for profit from whites (e.g. n-word) besides the fact that hip-hop and showbiz at large are financially governed by rich white Jewish Hollywood execs. But hip hop is a come-up. Bill Cosby should be actively figuring out ways to better market it. Instead of pointing his fucking finger. Fucking hypocrite Uncle Tom.
Don’t be a media whore.[/quote]
Wow…I’m gonna go to sleep and reply to this tomorrow.
[quote]meangenes wrote:
Why Bill Cosby is an Uncle Tom. [/quote]
Thanks for answering, meangenes. I see your points, but I’m going to disagree. Blacks are now represented at every level of society, and as such it is impossible to expect that they’re all going to speak with one voice or have similar messages to impart.
[quote]Bill Cosby talks more shit than I do. When I say shit, I mean that Bill Cosby is not an action oriented ‘activist’. He’s a talkavist.
It is easy to point a finger at the apparent problems in a community such as the black community. (Insert one of many here) It is not so easy to take a step back from your famous opinion on the black community and make steps toward improvement, especially when you sit comfortably amongst your fellow black elitists who are so diligently praised by whites as being ‘good niggers’ and this is what your image has always depended on. [/quote]
Not so. I did some reading this morning and Bill has consistently pursued his interest in improving educational opportunities for poor and black kids. His activism is education-oriented. It’s something he believes in strongly. He returned to school well after he’d become a television and movie success. That’s exceptional, I think.[/quote]
I don’t know any WHITE kids named Theodore.
Take a course in Discrimination in America. Hell, transfer between your junior and senior years and take it twice, like I did. When you do, you’ll learn about generational differences in assimilation focus. To Bill, access to the things HE’D seen on television was a profound success. To win an Emmy as a black man…huge. The kind of thing that never, ever happened. Except it DID, to him, three times. BEFORE The Cosby Show. Without any outside support. Without any national role models. He had Sidney Poitier…and that was about it.
Yes. My next door neighbors growing up, in a predominantly white town. There was a kid a year older than me. Our fathers were both low-level insurance execs. Thinking back they seem far more like the TV Cosby family than my own did. Mr. and Mrs. R were both beautifully spoken people, she had an advanced degree in…something. My father was far less cultured-seeming and not nearly as nice as Bill Cosby or Mr. R. I’m sure the R family was different behind closed doors, but they sure seemed perfect from the outside. The kid near my age was student body president one year and spent a lot of time lecturing me about straightening up (I was wild). He’s a doctor in Boston now. Hey, like Cliff Huxtable! I wonder if he’s got an awesome brownstone? I should ask his mom when I see her.
[quote]So yes, there was a perspective given and it allowed you to formulate that there are good black people and bad black people. Good black people have money, bad black people are poor. Could it get any more segregated/racist/bigot?
Popular opinion; white people have most of the wealth in America. Fact; white people have most of the wealth in America. Tell me how a middle class (largest class) African American family is properly represented here?
Once again blacks being exploited for entertainment value. Once again show business creating images for the public to lap up so effortlessly. Once again the middle class being left to dream. [/quote]
How is the white middle class (by far the largest class for them, too) any different? People like to dream.
So you feel that Bill should be supporting the rappers? But why? He doesn’t like the words. Why should he support it? I was thinking about you and this post this morning while I was running and listening to my iPod. This bit (Jay-Z, Renegade) caught my attention:
[quote]Motherfuckers -
say that I’m foolish I only talk about jewels (bling bling)
Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?
See I’m influenced by the ghetto you ruined
That same dude you gave nothin’, I made somethin doin’
what I do through and through and
I give you the news - with a twist it’s just his ghetto point-of-view
The renegade; you been afraid
I penetrate pop culture, bring 'em a lot closer to the block where they
pop toasters, and they live with they moms
Got dropped roasters, from botched robberies niggaz crotched over
Mommy’s knocked up cause she wasn’t watched over
Knocked down by some clown when child support knocked
No he’s not around - now how that sound to ya, jot it down
I bring it through the ghetto without ridin 'round
hidin down duckin strays from frustrated youths stuck in they ways
Just read a magazine that fucked up my day
How you rate music that thugs with nothin relate to it?
I help them see they way through it - not you
Can’t step in my pants, can’t walk in my shoes
Bet everything you worth; you lose your tie and your shirt
…Raisin’ my fingers to critics; raisin’ my head to the sky
BIG I did it - multi before I die (nigga)
No lie, just know I chose my own fate
I drove by the fork in the road and went straight [/quote]
And this, too (Talib Kweli, Listen) Kweli’s beliefs sound pretty close to Cosby’s, actually (Kweli’s parents are both professors, I think):
[quote]Who the fuck you think you talkin’ to?
Put you on hold, get a specialist to walk you through
…All my confidence comes from knowin’ God’s laws
Bangin’ on the system, fightin’ my kinda war
Loud as a whisper, quiet as a lion’s roar
…The youth today, they frown at the teachers
They ain’t down with no leaders
They don’t wanna wait just a (minute) they like what, wait right there
I got reservoir dogs, you’ll be missing a right ear [/quote]
How is Bill any different? Why can’t he bang on the system and fight HIS kind of war? And really, who the fuck you think you’re talking to? He was born in 1937. Can you even relate to that? (Can’t step in my pants, can’t walk in my shoes, Bet everything you worth; you lose your tie and your shirt.) His big dream was the stuff you take for granted (That same dude you gave nothin’, I made somethin doin’ what I do through and through).
I’ll occasionally joke about being someone’s bitch, or an entity’s (as in “I can’t tonight, I have to get serious about doing my data entry. I am, after all, the Texas Education Agency’s bitch!”). My mother would be absolutely horrified to hear me talk that way. Not because it’s a profane word, but because of the feminist thing. Like I’m going to singlehandedly bring down the movement by laughing with my friends over objectification.
That’s how Bill feels, I guess. But hasn’t he earned the right to feel as he does? (I penetrate pop culture, bring 'em a lot closer to the block where they…live really, really well with their attorney wives.) If he feels the n-word is going to set everyone back, then nigga please. Let him feel that way.
[quote]In the Huxtable household, viewers were exposed to the existence and culture of historically black colleges and universities. Prints by black artist Varnette Honeywood decorated the walls. The music of African American jazz artists was woven into the background or featured for discussion. Events in black history and signs calling for an end to apartheid became elements of plots. Just as Chet Kincaid and the Cosby Kids portray their frailties and personality traits, the Huxtables followed this Cosby pattern by depicting imperfect but likable people in realistic situations.[/quote] (say that I’m foolish I only talk about jewels, Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?)
Hey Mick, besides your childish insults, I don’t see an argument against any of the points I made. Seems to me as though you need to study up on your black culture before you step into the ring with someone who actually has an opinion.
Where did I state that any black person that succeeds is an Uncle Tom? I didn’t, you made that up.
Did he hurt the black culture? No, that’s not the question. He just didn’t represent it, period. Not to say that everything that comes from hip-hop culture is absolute representation; haha another well known and stated fact. But for the times and extremities of that particular time, Cosby was the “blacks shouldn’t use the n-word” of the particular era.
Besides hip hop culture then definitely “kept it more real” than Cosby.
In case you missed the point. Hip hop has made more money for the black community in 23 years than Cosby could in 23 lifetimes, and it has given back to the black community, a modern day Robin Hood. Stack that. In case you missed this point, who was the target demographic? Not poor black kids, but middle class white kids from the suburbs. You didn’t get that though from my argument. It’s a well known fact. Study up junior.
Where do you live fucking Wisconsin? What are you like 41? Sounds like the ready-made opinion of a 41 year old, too old to think for yourself, need more Spike.
I can just imagine you sitting at that dinner table with your boxed-up-ready-to-use opinions blabbering bullshit to anyone in your general vicinity that hasn’t already thought of something to go “get in the kitchen”, or gotten up to “use the bathroom”.
PS. You keep referencing Al Sharpton like he has any relevance to what I think. I not never once mentioned Al Sharpton but if you would like to go on and keep thinking that political leaders some how govern my opinion, I’m gonna go ahead and tell you to take your head out of your ass because once again you are being a slave to the talking picture box.
I don’t give a shit about what popular culture thinks, therefor I don’t restrict myself to the opinions of others, I don’t follow a political party and I actually make my opinions up, sounds so foolish doesn’t it? If that makes me narrow minded then I guess you can call me that. At least I think for myself media whore.
[quote]meangenes wrote:
In case you missed the point. Hip hop has made more money for the black community in 23 years than Cosby could in 23 lifetimes, and it has given back to the black community, a modern day Robin Hood. Stack that. In case you missed this point, who was the target demographic? Not poor black kids, but middle class white kids from the suburbs. You didn’t get that though from my argument. It’s a well known fact. Study up junior.
[/quote]
What does that even mean? What does it mean to “make money for the black community?” That some black people get paid? Is that the definition of the “black community?” Is there some sort of intraracial wealth redistribution that I didn’t know about?
What about all the damage caused by a culture that values the transient and vain appearance of wealth over the substance of it? All entertainment does that; it took rap to transform it into a culture.
As far as a “Robin Hood” mythos goes, weren’t many of these rappers selling drugs to other poor people before they got where they are today? Don’t many of them glamorize that lifestyle through the work they now produce? Where are the reparations for the people who have had their lives destroyed by “entertainers” who have been made rich by their suffering?
[quote]meangenes wrote:
These cultural aspects such as hate and intolerance are learned. Not hardwired. So shut up Ghandi.
[/quote]
Racism has nothing to do with hatred. Hate is an emotional response and does not necessarily have to be learned. I equate it to extreme fear. I am sure you were never taught to hate something–it just happens on its own sometimes. Who was the first person to look at another individual and decide he didn’t like the other person looks? Seems like a “chicken or the egg” argument to me.
I am sick of the slavery issue. How many more centuries are white people going to have to make emotional reparations for it? Keep in mind that many of the white European immigrants to this country were persecuted in their own original countries and had nothing to do with slavery and had ancestors that were probably themselves slaves at one point in time–who do they get to be angry at–other white people?
Racism exists and will always exist until race is no longer distinguishable among men. Get over it and live your life, dude.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
meangenes wrote:
These cultural aspects such as hate and intolerance are learned. Not hardwired. So shut up Ghandi.
Racism has nothing to do with hatred. Hate is an emotional response and does not necessarily have to be learned. I equate it to extreme fear. I am sure you were never taught to hate something–it just happens on its own sometimes. Who was the first person to look at another individual and decide he didn’t like the other person looks? Seems like a “chicken or the egg” argument to me.
I am sick of the slavery issue. How many more centuries are white people going to have to make emotional reparations for it? Keep in mind that many of the white European immigrants to this country were persecuted in their own original countries and had nothing to do with slavery and had ancestors that were probably themselves slaves at one point in time–who do they get to be angry at–other white people?
Racism exists and will always exist until race is no longer distinguishable among men. Get over it and live your life, dude.[/quote]
Get over it, dude? I’m living just fine actually, thanks. How long are white people going to have to make emotional reparations? What are you talking about? If you feel some sort of emotional reparation needs to to be paid then thats on you, your tears won’t fix the economics of the black community though.
I don’t know if any of you realize it but capitalism is racist. Not inherently but it has been cultured to be, particularly in America.
So yes Neph, it’s called family. Why are most Italians from the tri-state area assumed to be mafia members? Because they have a united culture, a family of sorts. Like Jews, like Chinese, it’s cultural unity.
Entertainers lie. This is news to some. You think they’re all killers as well, huh?
Hate never just happens, it must be accepted. Then it gains strength. When we find that there are others that think the same thing.
Keep in mind that many of the white European immigrants to this country were persecuted in their own original countries and had nothing to do with slavery and had ancestors that were probably themselves slaves? I made the point, thanks for reiterating it, read the thread.
You are speaking to one of the few that actually are indistinguishable. I see the racism from outside of the box. None of you do.
Mick, if I am apparently racist, then who am I racist against?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Racism has nothing to do with hatred. Hate is an emotional response and does not necessarily have to be learned. I equate it to extreme fear. I am sure you were never taught to hate something–it just happens on its own sometimes. Who was the first person to look at another individual and decide he didn’t like the other person looks? Seems like a “chicken or the egg” argument to me.[/quote]
Racism has nothing to do with hate? Hmm, US Court Systems seem to define racist crimes as hate crimes. Close enough for me. Ever hear of fear turning to anger?
[quote]meangenes wrote:
Racism has nothing to do with hate? Hmm, US Court Systems seem to define racist crimes as hate crimes. Close enough for me. Ever hear of fear turning to anger?
[/quote]
Your logic (and the Supreme Court’s, for that matter) is incorrect. Violent crimes might be hate crimes but how does one prove the crimes are racist? Not all racist behaviors can be considered crimes. Is saying, “white people can’t dance” hate speech or a crime? Surely, it is racist but it isn’t hate speech.
When a white person is mugged by a black person is that a hate crime or just circumstance? Is the black person racist for mugging a white person? How do you know when a bunch of black people jump a white person it is a hate crime and not just done for the fun of it? Violence is violence–what does it matter the reason something was done?
Racism and hatred are not mutually exclusive. You probably have some racist tendencies but probably aren’t an intolerant or hate-filled person, for the most part.
What is a racist act to you? Maybe you need to answer that question correctly, first.
[quote]meangenes wrote:
Get over it, dude? I’m living just fine actually, thanks. How long are white people going to have to make emotional reparations? What are you talking about? If you feel some sort of emotional reparation needs to to be paid then thats on you, your tears won’t fix the economics of the black community though.
[/quote]
Believe it or not, I actually agree with you for the most part. By “emotional reparations” I mean acknowledgment of slavery in history with any amount of personal significance. In other words, I know it happened…what does it have to do with me?
The laws of economics do not change in different communities. It is all driven by property ownership which is lacking by black individuals. Many black individuals are victims of racism in this regard. I will not deny that. I don’t know how to change this except by writing laws that give favor and protection to black would be property owners…but that is most definitely racism.
Maybe we can get “black leaders” to reinvest in their “communities”–you know, good old fashioned capitalism? I do know a more permanent fix won’t come about by charity but will have to be earned.
Maybe Oprah and that dude from “Pursuit of Happiness” can start a business giving low interest loans to black persons for capital investment. Think of all the empowerment that could engender.
Hate Crime: Crime of aggravated assault, arson, burglary, criminal homicide, motor vehicle theft, robbery, sex offenses, and/or crime involving bodily injury in which the victim was intentionally selected because of the victims’ actual or perceived race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or disability.
Depending on its context. I don’t know what statement you were attempting to make about violence but it was a bad attempt at a some sort of conjecture.
Don’t play the grey game with me. Racism is racism. Acted upon, it’s a racist action. Spoken upon, it’s a racist statement. Thought about, it’s a racist thought. Thoughts become words become actions become movements. Simple.
Meangenes you should take your own advice and do some studying about African American entertainment.
Hip hop is nothing more than a modern day version of Bones and Tambo.
Just because white people will pay black people good money to humiliate and degrade themselves doesn’t mean that hip hop is a positive for the community.
Instead hip hop has bred a culture in the ghetto where kids will work long and hard at McDonalds or some other minimum wage job so they can have bling. You can see how hip hop has taught the wrong priorities when you see kids wearing a four hundred dollar pair of Air Jordan sneakers but they don’t own a computer.
TELEVISION’S No. 1 star Bill Cosby had just split the pages of the history of philanthropy into B.C. (Before Cosby) and A.C. (After Cosby) when he announced that he and his wife Camille were giving $20 million to Spelman College during the inauguration of Dr. Johnnetta Cole as the first Black female president of the 107-year-old Atlanta institution. Cosby said the contribution, the largest personal gift ever to any of America’s 112 Black colleges and universities, will be used for the Camille Olivia Hanks Cosby Academic Center and the endowment of three chairs in the fine arts, social sciences and humanities. It will also support a library and archival program of international African women research and resources at the Academic Center.
Meangenes you have some fucked up priorities to call a man who has donated twenty million dollars to a black university an uncle Tom. Then you go on to offer up hip hop which is populated by drug dealers, pimp, gang bangers, murderers etc., as a positive for the community. You really need to check yourself.
[quote]meangenes wrote:
Don’t play the grey game with me. Racism is racism. Acted upon, it’s a racist action. Spoken upon, it’s a racist statement. Thought about, it’s a racist thought. Thoughts become words become actions become movements. Simple.[/quote]
Do you know what mutual exclusion means? Whether you like it or not there are huge shades of gray you are missing.
A crime is a crime whether someone’s motive was racism or hatred. A known racist who commits a crime is not necessarily committing a hate crime just because it was perpetrated against a particular race. Hate crime is a term born out of political correctness. There is no such thing as hate crime.