[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
ZEB,
I will just take that as your apology.[/quote]
LOL…You’re dumber than I originally thought if you think that’s an apology. But hey I don’t want to be to tough on you on the 4th of July. After all you are former military, whichever branch is unimportant. In fact, we’ll leave that to the mood you’re in on any given day. Marines, Army, Navy, Air force you just post it and we’ll nod our heads.
Fair enough?
[quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< Why get an education? Why wait until you’re married to have children? Why leave your neighbor’s property alone? Why work hard? >>>[/quote]Why indeed. Do you not think they ask themselves those questions and instinctively recognize the propriety of adopting the right answers? Even a 15 year old east side gang banger knows that it’s a bad idea to get somebody pregnant, that stealing is wrong and education is probably wise overall.[quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< The answer doesn’t absolutely have to be Morality. Wisdom works just fine. We simply need to reform our laws back to the point where Wisdom as it applies to the individual agrees with Wisdom as it applies to our society. >>>[/quote]I must disagree. Morality in this context is the hands and feet of wisdom. Immoral people have no motivation to behave contrary to their self obsessed hedonistic propensities because it might be good for somebody else. The sexual revolution of the 1960’s was the death knell of this nation.
She will soon be whimpering her last gasping breath as the superpower she once was. The old saying goes “never interrupt your enemy when he’s in the process of destroying himself”. Ours are chucking in sneering derision as they save all the money for an invasion while we do their job for them.
None of this has anything whatever to do with race which is the topic of this thread. Race carries no moral content. A person is not more or less moral (or wise) because of having been descended from one ethnicity or another. Not in itself.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Zeb I knew you were right again :)[/quote]
I just have to all em as I see em. There are few who can compare to B r i a n he’s become a real source of entertainment for all of us.
By the way how did you enjoy your trip?
[/quote]
I am sure I will think of my trip the day I die . I like Brian 
[/quote]
That good huh? You should have posted some specifics or maybe you did and I missed it. And I like B r i a n too I don’t think I’ve had this much fun picking on a liberal since vroom left the site.
Remember him Pitt? [/quote]
I don’t think you picked on Vroom he was quite capable of holding his own
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Zeb I knew you were right again :)[/quote]
I just have to all em as I see em. There are few who can compare to B r i a n he’s become a real source of entertainment for all of us.
By the way how did you enjoy your trip?
[/quote]
I am sure I will think of my trip the day I die . I like Brian
[/quote]
That good huh? You should have posted some specifics or maybe you did and I missed it. And I like B r i a n too I don’t think I’ve had this much fun picking on a liberal since vroom left the site.
Remember him Pitt? [/quote]
I did not post a lot of specifics . It was a great trip . Drinking beir in 400 year old taverns , smoking herb in 300 year old coffee shops :). The antiquity is what it is all about, 400AD castles , truly amazing . I will say I did see nothing that is not in America there was less poverty and I did look in Paris I did not have the time in London . Well I got to get back to work Peace
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Zeb I knew you were right again :)[/quote]
I just have to all em as I see em. There are few who can compare to B r i a n he’s become a real source of entertainment for all of us.
By the way how did you enjoy your trip?
[/quote]
I am sure I will think of my trip the day I die . I like Brian
[/quote]
That good huh? You should have posted some specifics or maybe you did and I missed it. And I like B r i a n too I don’t think I’ve had this much fun picking on a liberal since vroom left the site.
Remember him Pitt? [/quote]
I did not post a lot of specifics . It was a great trip . Drinking beir in 400 year old taverns , smoking herb in 300 year old coffee shops :). The antiquity is what it is all about, 400AD castles , truly amazing . I will say I did see nothing that is not in America there was less poverty and I did look in Paris I did not have the time in London . Well I got to get back to work Peace
[/quote]
Sounds like a good time some incredible history over there.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Of course they ask themselves those questions. The problem is the fuzziness of the answers, as it stands right now. Why get an education? I don’t need one, all I have to do is get welfare. Why should I wait to have kids, when I can get more money for them now? Why not go steal my neighbor’s stuff, when I’ll be gone way before the cops get there and he has no means of defending it?
Why work hard when I can just take from someone else? We need to eliminate that option.
I don’t agree with that, but that’s OK. There are a lot of Moral questions that are strictly individual, and a lot of questions of Wisdom that have nothing to do with Morality.
Morality, to me, is the highest form of Wisdom.
The downfall of our nation started with us undermining the core principles of capitalism, and giving people money for making bad decisions. I don’t think it has anything to do with sexuality.
It’s far more sinister than that, and I think that will become evident in the near future. But I have faith in God and my people. Times are going to get tough, but we will make it.
Isn’t it exactly what this thread is about?
Certainly isn’t about IQ. In fact, the ‘intelligent elite’ have caused almost all of society’s problems by trying to make things better for those who don’t deserve it.
When you intend to farm a field, you have to plow it, fertilize it, plant it, weed it and water it. There is a lot that can go wrong, and so everything must be done carefully to give the intended crop an advantage over the weeds. We have asserted our position that the weeds have every right to be there, and have fertilized the field in favor of them rather than for the wheat. And of course, there was a small corner of our field that was planted late, and so was already at a disadvantage. We not only allowed the weeds to overtake the wheat there, we encouraged it.
The good news is that all we have to do is put the field back the way it should be, and the wheat will have an advantage once again.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< But I have faith in God and my people. Times are going to get tough, but we will make it. >>>[/quote] I have no faith in any people and the one true and living God will not bless a nation that flagrantly dishonors His precious covenants. We’re living that as I type this. The continued delusion that “I don’t think it has anything to do with sexuality” does nothing to bring encouragement regarding our future as a nation. Without a return to faithful families we will NOT make it no matter what else we do or don’t do. The symptoms you mention succeed BECAUSE the family that once grew the character necessary to resist them is GONE. That is an ipso facto point A to point B consequence of family destroying promiscuity… period. Oh yes it is. Here is an oft repeated piece of mine that I did during a debate over gay “marriage” quite a while back where some guy was saying that it would not have an appreciable effect on our society. Like it or not, and I suspect you won’t, it IS the truth.
[quote]Gay “marriage” is the latest component in a national suicide that began in earnest in the 1960’s. It HAS AND IS having an appreciable effect. A devastating suicidal one. This country was built on the social/political/economic foundation of very limited public government through privately and voluntarily practiced Judeo-Christian morality.
Oh yes it was. Our founders clearly told us that. “The reason we can give you so few rules boys n girls is because you’re already so well behaved on the whole” to paraphrase in a nutshell. Even the total hypocritical pagans like Jefferson and Franklin clearly understood this.
The soil out of which new citizens grow is their family or lack thereof. Every single last issue killing this country is a direct consequence of that. The founders assumed that we would continue in the new testament model of one man and one woman for life wherein boundaries that engender self sacrifice, self control, decency, modesty and HONESTY in the act of upholding one’s vows because one’s word actually meant something. All of this was predicated upon the assumption that God designed it that way. That was the soil for new citizens they absolutely counted on for their experiment in self government to succeed and it did.
We skyrocketed into the most prosperous, powerful, feared and respected nation in all of human history over the course of a few generations BECAUSE despite our human foibles we were the most moral because we were the most Christian. Look at the soil our citizens are growing in now. Children of the hippies. Hedonistic, self obsessed, narcissistic, materialistic whoremongers whose mission in life is bringing themselves the most pleasure in the most rapid fashion possible.
ALL the economic woes we are now in ARE, make no mistake, the consequence of the sexually moral degeneration of this nation’s citizenry resulting in the destruction of the foundational social unit upon which she was built and out of which her members are spawned. Even Stalin understood this. He told the world that the United Sates would never be defeated as long as she maintained her spirituality and hence MORality.
Wanna know what’s rotting this nation dead from the inside out like an oozing flesh eating virus? Go look in your â??Sex and the Male Animal forum.â?? We will destroy OURSELVES to the snickering glee of our many enemies without a shot being fired, all in the name of getting laid. Gay marriage is just the latest chapter.[/quote]
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< But I have faith in God and my people. Times are going to get tough, but we will make it. >>>[/quote] I have no faith in any people and the one true and living God will not bless a nation that flagrantly dishonors His precious covenants. We’re living that as I type this. The continued delusion that “I don’t think it has anything to do with sexuality” does nothing to bring encouragement regarding our future as a nation. Without a return to faithful families we will NOT make it no matter what else we do or don’t do. The symptoms you mention succeed BECAUSE the family that once grew the character necessary to resist them is GONE. That is an ipso facto point A to point B consequence of family destroying promiscuity… period. Oh yes it is. Here is an oft repeated piece of mine that I did during a debate over gay “marriage” quite a while back where some guy was saying that it would not have an appreciable effect on our society. Like it or not, and I suspect you won’t, it IS the truth.
[quote]Gay “marriage” is the latest component in a national suicide that began in earnest in the 1960’s. It HAS AND IS having an appreciable effect. A devastating suicidal one. This country was built on the social/political/economic foundation of very limited public government through privately and voluntarily practiced Judeo-Christian morality.
Oh yes it was. Our founders clearly told us that. “The reason we can give you so few rules boys n girls is because you’re already so well behaved on the whole” to paraphrase in a nutshell. Even the total hypocritical pagans like Jefferson and Franklin clearly understood this.
The soil out of which new citizens grow is their family or lack thereof. Every single last issue killing this country is a direct consequence of that. The founders assumed that we would continue in the new testament model of one man and one woman for life wherein boundaries that engender self sacrifice, self control, decency, modesty and HONESTY in the act of upholding one’s vows because one’s word actually meant something. All of this was predicated upon the assumption that God designed it that way. That was the soil for new citizens they absolutely counted on for their experiment in self government to succeed and it did.
We skyrocketed into the most prosperous, powerful, feared and respected nation in all of human history over the course of a few generations BECAUSE despite our human foibles we were the most moral because we were the most Christian. Look at the soil our citizens are growing in now. Children of the hippies. Hedonistic, self obsessed, narcissistic, materialistic whoremongers whose mission in life is bringing themselves the most pleasure in the most rapid fashion possible.
ALL the economic woes we are now in ARE, make no mistake, the consequence of the sexually moral degeneration of this nation’s citizenry resulting in the destruction of the foundational social unit upon which she was built and out of which her members are spawned. Even Stalin understood this. He told the world that the United Sates would never be defeated as long as she maintained her spirituality and hence MORality.
Wanna know what’s rotting this nation dead from the inside out like an oozing flesh eating virus? Go look in your Ã?¢??Sex and the Male Animal forum.Ã?¢?? We will destroy OURSELVES to the snickering glee of our many enemies without a shot being fired, all in the name of getting laid. Gay marriage is just the latest chapter.[/quote]
[/quote]
So, you attribute it to sexuality and not the fact that during this same period of time, we changed our laws to favor criminals? The fact that we changed the welfare system to cover people who are just too damned lazy to go provide for themselves? We changed the court system to favor unwed mothers and wives who just didn’t feel like keeping their vows anymore?
I think that’s a pretty narrow point of view.
Punish criminals. Severely. At their own cost, not taxpayer cost.
Allow unwed mothers to sink or swim on their own. Women have equality now. No excuses.
Allow divorcees to sink or swim on their own. Whoever files the paperwork simply walks away.
Abolish laws that punish people for protecting themselves or having the capability to do so.
Let lazy people starve.
When people are forced to make wise decisions or suffer the consequences, you will see our society return to greatness.
None of the latter that you mention, which are all good points, would have been possible without the collapse of the faithful new testament model of sex and family as mainstream, which is the only defense against them. You’re kidding yourself.
If we pushed a button today and returned to the policies of pre LBJ liberalism right now, this nations would spontaneously self destruct right before the world’s eyes. I’ll try to get a more point by point response together later, but I keep telling everybody that. I’ll do my best.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
None of the latter that you mention, which are all good points, would have been possible without the collapse of the faithful new testament model of sex and family as mainstream, which is the only defense against them. You’re kidding yourself.[/quote]
Chicken vs Egg. If you apply the principles in my last post, you would see a return to family values and a decline in sexual promiscuity. If you return to family values and turn away from promiscuity, you would be applying those same principles.
You state that you have no faith in people, but you espouse a voluntary return to Morality as the solution to our problems? How likely is that to happen? Don’t you think it would be much better to reform the law to favor Morality?
It can’t be immediate. Too many people have the will and capability to do better, and they have to be given a chance.
I assume by ‘pre LBJ liberalism’ you mean ‘libertarianism’? After all, before the socialists hijacked that title, it was the popular term used to refer to libertarians.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand your point. But your argument doesn’t include any roadmap or plan other than a mass voluntary return to Biblical Morality. That’s not gonna happen.
YOU are fooling YOURself.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< If you apply the principles in my last post, you would see a return to family values and a decline in sexual promiscuity. If you return to family values and turn away from promiscuity, you would be applying those same principles. >>>[/quote]No we wouldn’t. [quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< You state that you have no faith in people, but you espouse a voluntary return to Morality as the solution to our problems? >>>[/quote]That voluntary return is impossible apart from a true and mighty move of the same Spirit of God that moved here in the beginning (Some predictable responses should be coming soon. Not necessarily from you.) The CHURCH was a thousand times more faithful then and exerted defining influence over the society. The pathetic church today is largely no different than the debauched society she’s supposed to be a holy testimony and witness to. Look around. How many people are there right here in these forums claiming to be Christians with filthy mouths, abominable immoral lifestyles and who flatly deny the clearest possible principles of the bible? THAT is why God is removing His gracious restraining hand and doing what He always does. Leaving rebellious sinful people to do what they think they want.[quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< How likely is that to happen? >>>[/quote]Not being a prophet? I don’t know. I DO know it is the only actual solution. [quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< Don’t you think it would be much better to reform the law to favor Morality? >>>[/quote]No actually. I don’t think it would be better. I’d prefer a society wherein every form of on demand abortion was fully legal and never happened because our citizens were aghast at the very suggestion that they murder their own children. God once honored this country in proportion to how she honored Him. Still does actually. [quote]JayPierce wrote:<<<
It can’t be immediate. Too many people have the will and capability to do better, and they have to be given a chance. >>>[/quote]And you think this will happen in fatherless homes? Where Dad is nowhere to be found and couldn’t care less if his children starved? To say nothing of their mother? I say where Dad is a faithful man of God who loves Mom and and nurtures his children BY loving Mom, NOTHING will defeat them regardless of whatever laws there are or aren’t. Let that become the preponderance of the citizens, regardless of race, and the nanny state will go away because there will be nobody left to take the handouts. Laws or no laws. The change must be internal and that is not possible by autonomous human effort. No matter how well intentioned. [quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< I assume by ‘pre LBJ liberalism’ you mean ‘libertarianism’? After all, before the socialists hijacked that title, it was the popular term used to refer to libertarians. >>>[/quote]Libertarianism works where lotsa people love Jesus more than themselves. In other words where there is a faithful church like there once was here. The founders said in essence, even the pagans, “go do what you want folks”. Because they assumed that would be voluntarily governed by biblical social morality. It is simply thigh slapping, side splitting, eye watering hilarity to deny that. I could post a multi page wall documenting exactly that. [quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< Don’t get me wrong, I understand your point. But your argument doesn’t include any roadmap or plan other than a mass voluntary return to Biblical Morality. That’s not gonna happen. YOU are fooling YOURself.[/quote]Except for that IS the only path which is why I said it’s over which is NOT fooling myself. WHAT IF, as I’m saying, biblical morality actually WAS the bedrock of this nations practice of self government? Biblical morality gone? Bedrock gone? Nation gone. Simple. Don’t look now. There it is. All around you. Only God can save this decaying nation which might mean He will. He could ya know. He loves to do stuff where He is the only explanation. I’ve seen plenty. Would be a trivial yawn for a God who calls light and matter into existence from nothing by fiat command. Please listen to this http://gregnmary.gotdns.com/index1.html The very fist word in sentence is the link. It’s my own server. 13 and a half minutes. I’d be interested in your response. This Egyptian immigrant really REALLY gets it.
The religious mindset engenders racism because it breaks the chain of reason. Skin color is NOT a defining characteristic but is a secondary one. Religion allows the person to admit concepts into his head that are irrational, ie break the chain.
Only when we have evolved can a truly non-racist society emerge. When religion goes away, so will racism.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The religious mindset engenders racism because it breaks the chain of reason. Skin color is NOT a defining characteristic but is a secondary one. Religion allows the person to admit concepts into his head that are irrational, ie break the chain.
Only when we have evolved can a truly non-racist society emerge. When religion goes away, so will racism.
[/quote]
I very much disagree with everything you just posted. Unless you make a distinction between faith and religion.
Jesus gave an open invitation to everyone in the world through his disciples.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The religious mindset engenders racism because it breaks the chain of reason. Skin color is NOT a defining characteristic but is a secondary one. Religion allows the person to admit concepts into his head that are irrational, ie break the chain.
Only when we have evolved can a truly non-racist society emerge. When religion goes away, so will racism.
[/quote]
I very much disagree with everything you just posted. Unless you make a distinction between faith and religion.
Jesus gave an open invitation to everyone in the world through his Church.[/quote]
Fixed.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The religious mindset engenders racism because it breaks the chain of reason. Skin color is NOT a defining characteristic but is a secondary one. Religion allows the person to admit concepts into his head that are irrational, ie break the chain.
Only when we have evolved can a truly non-racist society emerge. When religion goes away, so will racism.
[/quote]
I very much disagree with everything you just posted. Unless you make a distinction between faith and religion.
Jesus gave an open invitation to everyone in the world through his disciples.[/quote]
If a mystical semi-divine being says: ‘Jooz are bad!’, the people simply accept it.
A logical person doesn’t take that statement on faith. They know that faith or skin color are not defining characteristics of Man. (Man is the animal that thinks by forming concepts.)
This is why faith is a short-circuit, destroying the mind. The mind must not accept concepts that have no foundation ultimately in perceptions. To do so goes against how our minds works.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The religious mindset engenders racism because it breaks the chain of reason. Skin color is NOT a defining characteristic but is a secondary one. Religion allows the person to admit concepts into his head that are irrational, ie break the chain.
Only when we have evolved can a truly non-racist society emerge. When religion goes away, so will racism.
[/quote]
I very much disagree with everything you just posted. Unless you make a distinction between faith and religion.
Jesus gave an open invitation to everyone in the world through his Church.[/quote]
Fixed.[/quote]
Either fix it with a direct quote from the Bible, or leave my words alone.
You are a junior clergyman, aren’t you? I can tell by your willingness to change someone else’s words to what you see fit.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< I very much disagree with everything you just posted. Unless you make a distinction between faith and religion.
Jesus gave an open invitation to everyone in the world through his disciples.[/quote]Well we certainly agree here. There is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, black nor white, male nor female. ALL equally bear His image. I keep trying to get Headhunter to come to church with me. He would experience first hand the nonsensical nature of so much of his hatred of Christianity. My church is VERY mixed though predominately black. We love each other. Not even he would be able to miss it.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The religious mindset engenders racism because it breaks the chain of reason. Skin color is NOT a defining characteristic but is a secondary one. Religion allows the person to admit concepts into his head that are irrational, ie break the chain.
Only when we have evolved can a truly non-racist society emerge. When religion goes away, so will racism.
[/quote]
I very much disagree with everything you just posted. Unless you make a distinction between faith and religion.
Jesus gave an open invitation to everyone in the world through his Church.[/quote]
Fixed.[/quote]
Either fix it with a direct quote from the Bible, or leave my words alone.
You are a junior clergyman, aren’t you? I can tell by your willingness to change someone else’s words to what you see fit.[/quote]
Junior clergyman? Lol. I’ve been in some crazy congregations before, but that is the first time I’ve heard that term. No, I’m not any kind of clergyman.
Matthew 28:18, the first Bishops were prime in the Great Commission, they are par excellence responsible for evangelism in their territory. Of course, in one’s baptism one is duty bound to make disciples of all nations and partake in the Great Commission.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:<<< I very much disagree with everything you just posted. Unless you make a distinction between faith and religion.
Jesus gave an open invitation to everyone in the world through his disciples.[/quote]Well we certainly agree here. There is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, black nor white, male nor female. ALL equally bear His image. I keep trying to get Headhunter to come to church with me. He would experience first hand the nonsensical nature of so much of his hatred of Christianity. My church is VERY mixed though predominately black. We love each other. Not even he would be able to miss it.
[/quote]
Thought you said your church was 95% black?
If you’re looking for diversity, well that’s the universal Church. Not only have we had people from every time period starting at Pentecost, but we’ve had people from every timezone (still do), and our skin tones range from soulless ginger pale white to African (my new Chaplain is from Nigeria). My church is VERY mixed.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The mind must not accept concepts that have no foundation ultimately in perceptions. To do so goes against how our minds works.[/quote]
That’s not true at all. There is some interesting research on how the human mind has evolved to see patterns when there are none where false positives are better than the alternative.