A recent post has got me thinking I don’t understand something (…it happens a lot)
I undertand pretty much about ester lengths and half-lifes, but…
People say that the longer acting esters take a longer time to take effect than the shorter esters. For example, most say that test prop starts to take effect within a week or so, while test-e doesn’t start to be felt until 4 wks or so.
So what I don’t understand is this…I thought as soon as the ester cleaved off of the test, it was free to circulate and take effect. I understand this ester cleaving happens at a rate correlated to it’s half life. So it seems to me that test-e, for example, should start working within 5-10 days (same as it’s half life)…but most say, and my own experiences seems to confirm, that it really does take about a month, by which time it seems, according to half-lifes, the test is gactually out of the body.
What am I missing?
Does the time to take effect have something to do with how long it takes the hormone to bind with receptor site? Once it binds to the receptor, is it ‘used up’.
It is the time it takes for maximum blood levels to build. The half life for cyp dictates that the first injection wont have left the body until 4-5 weeks in, at the time the first injection is almost FULLY metabolised, is the exact time that blood levels will be at their highest… everytime after that there will be an ebb and flow of levels as each of the past injections degrades and is re-administered (in the past weeks).
For prop, this is around a week.
So i have theorised, that a good way to determine how long an estered AAS will take to “kick in” is by looking at the whole life of it (not detection time mind you).
As i explained above, this moment when the whole amount of the first dose is metabolised down to less than a mg, is the first moment of the highest blood levels and the first sign of real stability (which is almost impossible).
[quote] JJ wrote:
It is the time it takes for maximum blood levels to build. The half life for cyp dictates that the first injection wont have left the body until 4-5 weeks in, at the time the first injection is almost FULLY metabolised, is the exact time that blood levels will be at their highest… everytime after that there will be an ebb and flow of levels as each of the past injections degrades and is re-administered (in the past weeks).
For prop, this is around a week.
So i have theorised, that a good way to determine how long an estered AAS will take to “kick in” is by looking at the whole life of it (not detection time mind you).
As i explained above, this moment when the whole amount of the first dose is metabolised down to less than a mg, is the first moment of the highest blood levels and the first sign of real stability (which is almost impossible).
JJ[/quote]
This makes a lot of sense JJ. I think you can really see what you are talking about if one were to use Rents calculator and really see what the levels start to look like as the cycle progress’s.
What ever ester is used the effect starts immediately. You may just not notice it as easily as the effects are cumulative and the drug is at a lower concentration.
Peak concentration is reached somewhere around 5 half-lives. With cypionate/enanthate that would be around 4 weeks.
Your best bet is to front-load as it will bring peak concentration quicker and thus greater therapeutic effect at the beginning of the cycle.
I don’t believe in any drug “kicking in”. Therapeutic effects don’t go from 0-100% on the fourth week of a cyp/enan cycle.
as opposed to a frontload where just the first dose is doubled - which NEVER seems to work…
i know many dont rate the frontload theory, but i still think think there may be something in it still, i think that people dont throw themselves into it properly as it CAN waste alot of gear potentially…
bushy, that is exactly how I understood it to work. There is a given chance that each carbon will be taken off of the molocule. Once all the carbons are taken off then it is active. Sometime it will take a short time, sometimes longer to get them all off. But it is due to random chance. The time it takes to take effect is the time until a given amount of the esters have been completely removed, which takes much longer with a cyp ester than a prop ester.
as opposed to a frontload where just the first dose is doubled - which NEVER seems to work…
i know many dont rate the frontload theory, but i still think think there may be something in it still, i think that people dont throw themselves into it properly as it CAN waste alot of gear potentially…
JJ[/quote]
For 500mg per week with enanthate having a 6 day half-life, and injecting every third day…
E3D dosing would be (500mg/7)x3=214mg
Day 1: 735mg
Day 4: 214mg
Day 7: 214mg
Every third day afterwards 214mg.
The net testosterone released per day would be;
Day 1: 76mg
Day 2: 68mg
Day 3: 60mg
Day 4: 76mg
Day 5: 68mg
Day 6: 60mg and so on.
This dosing schedule should give you peak concentration at Day 1, thus giving you gains quicker. I would liken it to getting a shot of suspension every day of that dose. Not a perfect comparison but close.
If you were to go with 214mg E3D from the start your net testosterone released per day would be;
Day 1: 22mg
Day 2: 20mg
Day 3: 18mg
Day 4: 38mg
Day 5: 34mg
Day 6: 30mg
Day 7: 49mg
Day 8: 44mg
Day 9: 39mg
Day 10: 57mg
Day 11: 51mg
Day 12: 45mg
Day 22: 71mg
Day 49: 76mg
OK, have had some time to think on this and I can kind of see how the de-esterification of the steroid is related to half life, but what about the time it take for the depot to enter the blood stream? I assume this delays the time to take effect as it has to enter the blood stream to come in contact with the esterase enzyme, which would seem to delay the onset of de-esterification.
I’m sure it’s dependent on the injection volume, but given an average injection of say, 1 ml, how long does it take to leach into the blood stream so it can begin the de-esterification process? Or is it so negligible as to be of no consequence?
I am under the impression that the time it takes for the actual estered molecule to enter the bloodstream is trivial. No matter the type of oil-based depot it should take a matter of hours until the molecule is in the blood stream. For example the time difference between a test-prop molecule and a test-eth molecule should be very similar.
