With Free T at the top of the range (25ng/dL on Lapcorp labs), my E2 (sensitive) will typically be between 40 and 50pg/mL without any E2 control.
On paper the Mast didn’t lower my E2 which is expected in most cases as it acts more similarly to a SERM than an AI. But the Mast is legit, I got it tested myself, and has had all the benefits typically reported from that compound.
I do a decent amount of bloodwork, at least 3-4 times a year, more if I’m tinkering. In 5-6 weeks I’ll test TT, FT, E2, Hct, lipids, etc…to see the effects of Primo.
But in general, unless the numbers come back crazy I go by how I feel. If my HDL comes back at 25, or my E2 at 3pg/mL, I’ll obviously reassess with the assumption that those levels can’t be healthy long term even if I feel great right now.
1 Like
Wanting to try things is good, the problem is the part where you change things every 3-4 weeks.
Mast has a profound effect on my sex drive. On Test alone, my sex drive is lower than what it was naturally at 40yo. With the Mast in there, I’m jerking off 5x/day and am still diamond hard effectively “forever” when having sex with my girl at night.
I’m also a lot more deviant and aggressive sexually, which for me (and her) is a plus. YMMV on that one.
Not sure what the Primo will do, but I’m expecting something similar. My natural sex drive when I was younger, and even in my mid-late thirties was exceptionally high, I think for me it’s more a question of controlling E2 than the effects of DHT (derivatives).
3 Likes
Man, this is the goal. Fair play brother, fair play. Really makes me want to try a bit of mast in mine, as what you describe is exactly what I lack, on TRT. How often do you leave it when making a change before assessing. I know this is my issue, oll change something, have a weird period around week 3/4 where some days I have wood of steel and then another, ill have zero sensation or function, panic, then change something again. And then… the cycle continues
1 Like
I give protocols at least 6 weeks in general. I think by then you can typically tell whether it’s at least going in the right direction. If you’re having high BP and are completely bloated by that point it’s unlikely things will turn around.
I would definitely give Mast or Primo a shot. Start low and give it at least 6-8 weeks.
2 Likes
All great advice guys, thanks for your contribution and sharing your experiences.
As of today, ive gone ahead and added 60mg Mast weekly to my protocol of 120mg Test weekly (and a little HCG, 250 iu M/W/F).
Ill give this one at least 8 weeks before touching anything, even if weird sides start appearing in the first few weeks.
1 Like
Thats 3 moving parts already. How will you know whats working and whats not? Not to bust your balls or anything but the more moving parts the less chances for you to feel good. It’s a pain in the ass finding what works but going slow adding one compound at a time, giving it time, is the way to go IMO.
3 Likes
Agree with @belekas, I think 120 Test + 60 Mast is a great experiment. I would hold off on the hCG for now.
2 Likes
Thanks both. I was only keeping the HCG in as ive heard it improves sexual function. But agreed, not sure its doing much and may just be over complicating right now. I will want to try and become fertile next year, but can focus on a fertility type protocol when the time comes. Right now I just want to get the libido and function right, so ill drop the HCG and give Test/Mast in isolation a try for 8 weeks
2 Likes
My only concern with this experient, is that I am low SHBG on just T alone (18nmol ish), not sure how much 60mg Mast a week will impact this, but one would likely not get an improvement in erections if they tanked SHBG? Where does yours sit? I have started a week ago.
Mine was 80nmol/L before TRT and dropped to 40nmol/L after starting and has been there for years now.
I didn’t test SHBG on Mast so I don’t know whether it lowered it even more, I would suspect it probably did a bit but nothing dramatic.
I wouldn’t worry about it too much honestly. Your mind seems to look for things to worry about, which I understand because I used to suffer from anxiety. Just try to see this experiment through without talking yourself into changing something because you suddenly worry about erection quality or whatever else comes to your mind.
This is all chemical; if you find the right protocol your anxiety will go away and in retrospect will seem insane.
When my E2 is high my anxiety goes through the roof, I can’t even function and am in realistic danger of losing my job. On Mast, I had zero anxiety; now on Primo it seems to have the same calming effect, nothing gets to me. It feels like it would take something extreme to get my angry, let alone stress me out.
High Estrogen, at least for me, is absolute garbage.
2 Likes
Yeah man, so true. I mean for me the anxiety stems around my erection quality. I actually had great erections first couple of days, seems to have dropped off past 4/5 days. This then leads me to think of 1001 things that could be negative about my protocol and what I need to change… i change it… the cycle continues. But I am determined to give this one at least 8 weeks before I come to conclusions. Changing something every 4 weeks cant be good for erection quality
1 Like
I absolutely agree that the more you start fiddling with everything the more anxious you will get. Been there done that. This, that, nah, this, nah maybe that, or this and…your fried. Next thing you know you get anxious af, get a fucking headache or migraine, then start measuring your BP just to see it spiking like a mofo. Not saying that should be ignored, hell nah, but gotta be smart and patient the way we approach hormone therapy. It ain’t easy in general. Maybe for some it is as I know some guys that pin how much they want, when ever they want and they feel good. Like I have a mate whos been a bber for decades so he pins 250mg/week, sometimes forgets, so pins 250mg in 4 weeks, and he says hes absolutely fine, feels no fucking different at all lol. Go figure.
3 Likes
Update:
I’ve been injecting every 3.5 days since I started TRT with the exception of in February where I experimented for a few weeks 3 days a week on Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings before I decided that was a bit more than I cared for, so I went back to 3.5 days again. I didn’t notice any difference during that time. There was one exception where I did every 4 days twice so I didn’t have to take my supplies with me on a long weekend while visiting family.
Well, recently due to my unpredictable weekly schedule since last month I began injecting every 4 days so I can inject every 4 mornings without worrying about injecting in the early evenings. I’m aware that 4-5 weeks may not be that much time, but I honestly haven’t noticed any difference yet compared to every 3.5 days. Maintaining a steady level is important to me, as I don’t want to experience fluctuations with highs and lows. Plus, injecting in the mornings, and a bit less frequently appeals to me. However, I don’t think I would spread it out any more than every 4 days, and eventually when my schedule is more consistent again, I may go back to every 3.5 days. Based on my personal experiences so far, it seems that every 3.5 days or every 4 days may work for me long term. I really don’t think 1/2 a day would make much of a difference anyway.
Man, sounds like something I’d like to try. Spontaneous erections became a rare occurrence at least 15 years ago. In the past year or two, when I was doing 100 mg IM, weekly, I’d get one solid erection mid to late evening. It’s still the only time I get that erection, though I’ve changed my dose. No morning wood, nothing during the day, though my libido is generally there.
Have you ever experience them to begin with? Have you tried once a week or every 5 days or something to come to this thought process of highs and lows and steady levels???
I’m assuming you use cyp and I heard because of the half-life and to reduce sides like hair loss injecting every 7 days is the way to go. Speaking of hair loss what is everyone doing to maximize keeping hair and don’t say shave it and just embrace it lol.
FWIW. I started with Nizoral shampoo a few weeks into TRT (160mg) per wk. as a cheap counter measure and I still have my hair.
2 Likes