Qs for Trump Supporters

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
382

“The people are the only censors of their governors: and even their errors will tend to keep these to the true principles of their institution. To punish these errors too severely would be to suppress the only safeguard of the public liberty. The way to prevent these irregular interpositions of the people is to give them full information of their affairs thro’ the channel of the public papers, & to contrive that those papers should penetrate the whole mass of the people. The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers & be capable of reading them.”

-Thomas Jefferson

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383

Absolutely!

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384

That quote is from 1787 and mine is from the early 1800s. Looks like he realized the truth and wised up.

“From forty years’ experience of the wretched guess-work of the newspapers of what is not done in open daylight, and of their falsehood even as to that, I rarely think them worth reading, and almost never worth notice.”

–Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1816. ME 14:430

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Lincoln had reporters jailed without charges. That is tyranny. Saying mean things about the press isn’t government oppression.

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386

#ARE YOU OK WITH PRESIDENTS DOING EXCLUSIVE ONE ON ONES WITH A REPORTER OF THEIR CHOICE AND CAREFULLY SELECTED QUESTIONS AND SUBJECTS THAT A REPORTER MUST NOT DEVIATE FROM?

Or how about the ole Fireside Chat? A masters thesis on controlling the narrative and shaping public opinion-

Try not to skip over the part that describes the long hours of work and deliberation put forth to choose words and shape the messages.
Think about that for a moment before you go all bold faced type with your ovaries all cramped.

And consider this for a moment too- Decorum aside, there is nothing anywhere ever- that says you have to talk to anybody. ANYBODY!

In fact, we have a fifth amendment to the constitution which allows you to remain silent even in the court of law.

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387

“The press [is] the only tocsin of a nation. [When it] is completely silenced… all means of a general effort [are] taken away.” --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, Nov 29, 1802. (*) ME 10:341

“The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure.” --Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491

“The functionaries of every government have propensities to command at will the liberty and property of their constituents. There is no safe deposit for these but with the people themselves, nor can they be safe with them without information. Where the press is free, and every man able to read, all is safe.” --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384

“The art of printing alone and the vast dissemination of books will maintain the mind where it is and raise the conquering ruffians to the level of the conquered instead of degrading these to that of their conquerors.” --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1821. ME 15:334

“The Chief Magistrate cannot enter the arena of the newspapers.” --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1811. ME 13:64

Criticizing the quality of journalism at a given time is wholly different than trying to silence or bully the press into submission so it doesn’t do its job in a free, democratic society.

Freedom of press - like freedom of speech - covers really bad press coverage, whether sloppy, vindictive, or blindly partisan. Or even untrue reporting.

And like speech, the antidote to bad, even untrue, information being peddled by the press is more information to correct the record, not restricting the press.

Trump is a dolt - the press is never going to submit to his wishes, and because of his treatment of them, they’re motivated like never before to dig in and report against him, precisely an outcome he doesn’t need.

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388

The press is “free” they can carry out any journalism and publish whatever they want without fear of punishment from the state.

If anything it should be alarming that some mainstream outlets have become nothing more than mouthpieces for ultra rich billionaires such as Carlos Slim and Jeff Bezos.

Many of these mainstream media sources would have closed up shop at this point but since a billionaire will happily take multi million dollar losses if it means widening their reach they still exist.

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My ovaries are none of your business LOL.

I will be more selective with bold type in the future :smiley:

I hate bias media regardless of where it comes from.

You seem to think my stances are rooted in a left vs right or Democrat vs Republican. I am not posting Trump’s actions in here because he is a Republican or Russian.

Nobody makes you defend his actions. You can simply say, yup he is a detriment to the USA.

When Obama got health care for millions who didnt have it I was all on board. Since he continued the wars in the middle east I think he sucks. I think Obama was above average for a president, the best one the US has had since Kennedy…and a monumental disappointment.

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If you find that alarming, there is surely no limit to the alarm you must feel because of the fact that the executive branch of the federal government has become nothing more than mouthpieces for ultra rich millionaires and billionaires such as Trump, Mnuchin, and Tillerson.

Right?

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391

Fixed that so it doesn’t appear you are questioning him.

392

Kind of like Fox News and the WSJ are mouthpieces for Murdoch?

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393

Oh dear - are we, here in PWI, once again beset by DiLorenzo-reading lib-uh-turr-eans allergic to history?

394

Question for you, because I agree he was a good president and somehow a bit of a letdown as well. Do you think Obama is seen as a letdown by some Dems because our expectations were too high, or because he truly didn’t live up to his potential?

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pfury:

My thoughts.

Much like the GOP has done with it’s movement toward the Far Right…the DEMS have done the same by moving toward the far Left.

In other words; despite the whining and vitriol from the Right…Obama simply wasn’t “left enough”.

One last thing. Despite the Rights attempts to paint President Obama as “The worst President in History” (as they post their cut-and-paste list of failures); his history is being written even as I type…and it’s not nearly as pessimistic. Also…keep in mind that as an ex-President; he finally will able to give “his side” (via memoirs, speeches, etc.) to the Right’s criticisms.

It certainly doesn’t hurt him in the least that he will have fallen between GW Bush and Donald Trump.

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396

I’m confused. Didn’t Lincoln:

Blockade southern ports, call up 75,000 troops and basically declare war without congress?

Ignore multiple SCOTUS rulings?

Institute a draft organization that spied on the entire north?

Jail journalists critical of him.

Suspend Habeas Corpus without congress (initially)?

Try civilians in military tribunals?

Wodrow Wilson and Roosevelt expanded executive powers far more than Lincoln. But we don’t have to like everything Lincoln did.

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One other thing, pfury.

With literally each passing day with the Trump Administration…criticisms directed at President Obama seem to sound more and more shallow (whether legitimate or not).

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398

Speak for yourself. I’m not questioning the Holy Trinity of the United States of Murica.

(I will add that criticism of Obama, from people that worship at the Altar of Lincoln, Wilson, and Roosevelt, always makes me laugh. I would take Obama over each member of that group, any day and twice on Sundays.)

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Me personally, a bit of both.

A large part of that was not Obama’s fault. I thought if a black dude could get elected and give millions health care maybe racism would take a back seat. Like hey, these black dudes deserve rights too.

Ironically it just fueled more racism from the same people getting fkt by their own party alliance. If racists could think though.

I give up on that shit though.

Where he failed for me was wars and wealth inequality (which would solve most racism…when people dont have to struggle they stop fighting).

The media owned by rich people actually have a rooting interest in racism and broadcasting it because it keeps the people from uniting against their true enemy, which is the 1%.

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400

You should question every thing and every body. That is your civic duty.

It doesn’t mean I won’t give a pass for reasons, or condemn for reasons.

It sounds like Lincoln committed versions of war crimes and treaon, but he did it to free the slaves.

Obama committed war crimes by continuing the war profiteering set up in previous years…like way previous…like 1500s previous.

Trump also most likely committed acts of treason to get elected. I mean if he ends up actually draining the swamp and rids the USA of bias media then OK I am all on board.

What it really looks like he is doing (because it is about as blatantly transparent as water…not Flint’s water though) is rebuilding the swamp for his own interests (oil/russia).

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Your style of argument is odd. You take issue with my criticism of Lincoln and then when I clarify it you move onto Obama. You’ve made no actual argument. I don’t think any one person likes Lincoln, Wilson and FDR for their expansion of government.

I can only conclude that you’re trolling and I was too slow to catch it. Oh well.