Puppycide in Austin

[HoustonGuy]

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Again search for Firce Decisions at amazon . It’s by Rfiry Miller. Order it and read it.
Until then if you’re talking about how force should or not be used you do not know what you’re talking about.

Translation : Houstonguy is right.[/quote]
Why should I read that when I can refer to my actual LEO training, unlike HG. [/quote]
A teacher and a cop? Will you have personal experience in every scenario discussion?

And conveniently a teacher in a poor school?

Get the fuck out of here.[/quote]
Was a substitute teacher while in school. Am an MP in the National Guard. I know, it’s hard to believe that people actually get out, live, and have various experiences…which they then bring to the table unlike others who will go unnamed. Good job keeping score though. The internet is serious business. [/quote]
Lol! A substitute?

And now an MP?

Call that “living” if you want but you’re full of shit with “personal experience” for discussion.[/quote]
I guess if you live with your parents it would be unbelievable. What about your experience? [/quote]
Really? A “shot in the dark” war? Even after openly laying out your bullshit?

FTR, a substitute isn’t in any way an expert on much of anything, certainly not an educational system. And you’re still stretching here. Nice spin and all but you’re a waste of time.

[/quote]
Again, what is your experience? Why do you avoid the question? Why do you demand facts from others yet when the same is asked of you, you refuse? Why the fear?

What’s funny is how you claim a sub isn’t close to an expert on education yet you are because you are acquainted with educators. You don’t even see the irony in your own posts.

So tell us, what is your experience in law enforcement? Don’t be afraid. You’re safe in your parents’ basement. [/quote]
What’s funny is you position yourself as an expert based on alleged experiences and come to find out, you don’t have said experience at all. This is a far cry from objective reasoning and taints your posts with a strong whiff of horse shit.

There are no basements in Texas.

What I do is irrelevant and, unlike you, I won’t pretend otherwise. Frankly, I believe roscoedog is actually an LEO and it seems as though his thinking and mine are pretty well aligned. Tom63 seems pretty knowledgeable as well. Anecdotal, I know, but then so are you and with a flair for dishonesty. So, what about lying cops?[/quote]

If I prove I am an MP will you stop posting here? Ball is in your court Sparky. [/quote]
Nope. It doesn’t take the Chief of police to utilize deductive reasoning. When you start making valid points instead of shit kicking and exaggerating your experience you can have a better conversation though.

[HoustonGuy]

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Again search for Firce Decisions at amazon . It’s by Rfiry Miller. Order it and read it.
Until then if you’re talking about how force should or not be used you do not know what you’re talking about.

Translation : Houstonguy is right.[/quote]
Why should I read that when I can refer to my actual LEO training, unlike HG. [/quote]
A teacher and a cop? Will you have personal experience in every scenario discussion?

And conveniently a teacher in a poor school?

Get the fuck out of here.[/quote]
Was a substitute teacher while in school. Am an MP in the National Guard. I know, it’s hard to believe that people actually get out, live, and have various experiences…which they then bring to the table unlike others who will go unnamed. Good job keeping score though. The internet is serious business. [/quote]
Lol! A substitute?

And now an MP?

Call that “living” if you want but you’re full of shit with “personal experience” for discussion.[/quote]
I guess if you live with your parents it would be unbelievable. What about your experience? [/quote]
Really? A “shot in the dark” war? Even after openly laying out your bullshit?

FTR, a substitute isn’t in any way an expert on much of anything, certainly not an educational system. And you’re still stretching here. Nice spin and all but you’re a waste of time.

[/quote]
Again, what is your experience? Why do you avoid the question? Why do you demand facts from others yet when the same is asked of you, you refuse? Why the fear?

What’s funny is how you claim a sub isn’t close to an expert on education yet you are because you are acquainted with educators. You don’t even see the irony in your own posts.

So tell us, what is your experience in law enforcement? Don’t be afraid. You’re safe in your parents’ basement. [/quote]

dood, he soooo read a book once.[/quote]
Well this certainly makes a fireman = a policeman.

[zecarlo]

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
It’s pretty obvious that the officer lied because he knew he was wrong. He panicked, maybe he is scared of dogs, and was too quick to use his gun.

The same thing happened in my town years ago. Several cops showed up, during the day, at someone’s house because a neighbor complained about the noise (he was having a cookout). The officers approached and his dog, a golden retriever, ran towards them in a manner that a dog person would recognize as friendly.

One cop drew his weapon. The owner yelled don’t shoot my dog. The cop shot the dog in head (it survived but lost an eye and the city paid the vet bill). The other cops didn’t draw their guns let alone shoot. I went to HS with the cop who shot the dog and he was always a bit of a pussy so I’m not surprised he would be scared of a dog.

However, does his fear in that situation make his actions reasonable and thus right? The other cops weren’t afraid so who does he get judged against? A cop gets judged as a cop and not an individual. This particular cop’s fear, and how he reasoned because of it, was not judged as reasonable. Of course he couldn’t lie about what happened and had to face being ridiculed by the other cops. Oddly enough he left the dept to go on to become a state trooper. [/quote]
He gets judged against standard operating procedure.
[/quote]
Isn’t that what I said?

[FrozenNinja]

I don’t understand why police officers can do something wrong and get away with it because of the “Situation” they were in? I think I need that explained. Of all the arguments I’ve gotten in with my close friends and family in law enforcement this has NEVER been stated. They always tell me if a cop does something wrong, they should be held accountable.

[HoustonGuy]

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
I don’t understand why police officers can do something wrong and get away with it because of the “Situation” they were in? I think I need that explained. Of all the arguments I’ve gotten in with my close friends and family in law enforcement this has NEVER been stated. They always tell me if a cop does something wrong, they should be held accountable. [/quote]
Again, you will have to define “wrong”.

A cop patrolling a street who sees a dog chained up at the top of a driveway, jumps out of his cruiser, runs up the driveway and shoots the dog for no apparent reason would no doubt be wrong in his action.

A cop responding to a suspicious scene who is confronted by an aggressive dog and shoots the dog would not be.

We could kill the server with examples of situational right and wrong, both defined by action within a scenario.

This isn’t “stretching” or spin either, simple common sense being largely ignored for the sake of hating cops, not wanting to admit fallacy and wanting really badly to “prove” HG wrong.

We are again being emotional as opposed to rational.

[FrozenNinja]

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
I don’t understand why police officers can do something wrong and get away with it because of the “Situation” they were in? I think I need that explained. Of all the arguments I’ve gotten in with my close friends and family in law enforcement this has NEVER been stated. They always tell me if a cop does something wrong, they should be held accountable. [/quote]
Again, you will have to define “wrong”.

A cop patrolling a street who sees a dog chained up at the top of a driveway, jumps out of his cruiser, runs up the driveway and shoots the dog for no apparent reason would no doubt be wrong in his action.

A cop responding to a suspicious scene who is confronted by an aggressive dog and shoots the dog would not be.

We could kill the server with examples of situational right and wrong, both defined by action within a scenario.

This isn’t “stretching” or spin either, simple common sense being largely ignored for the sake of hating cops, not wanting to admit fallacy and wanting really badly to “prove” HG wrong.

We are again being emotional as opposed to rational.[/quote]

I asked one of my family members and this person said they would’ve shot the dog too, if the command was made to “get your dog” and it wasn’t heeded. When I pointed out the video and told about the limited time the owner had to do so, then this person said…“yeah that’s a tough situation but it wasn’t right.” I’m just skipping conjecture and asking family and friends who are cops in law enforcement.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

Well this certainly makes a fireman = a policeman.[/quote]

I have far more experience in similar situations and even on equivalent 911 calls than you do. My experience only came up because of you attacking me for my perspective and being wrong essentially saying I have no idea what I’m talking about, when, in fact, I have infinite times more relevant experience and much better knowledge of these kind of situations than you do.

I have never claimed to be or know what it is to be a cop. That doesn’t mean my experience dealing with animals on 911 life threatening emergency calls with possible violent criminals is irrelevant.

You not only lectured me on what it like to be a cop (which you have absolutely no experience of whatsoever) but you also lectured me on what it’s like to be a firefighter. The absolute illogical, irrational, arrogance of some of your statements is astounding. Your very insinuation that my experience isn’t relevant would require you to know both the life of a firefighter and a cop, of which you know absolutely nothing about either.

I respond to life threatening 911 calls with violent criminals. I deal with protective dogs while trying to get to someone in trouble. That is entirely relevant. And relevant doesn’t mean I’m clamming “firefighter = cop” or another other asinine strawman spin you can come up with.

Oh, but I make equation with equals sign. I have logic. You look more and more like a fool with every post. So, by all means, keep posting.

[HoustonGuy]

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
I don’t understand why police officers can do something wrong and get away with it because of the “Situation” they were in? I think I need that explained. Of all the arguments I’ve gotten in with my close friends and family in law enforcement this has NEVER been stated. They always tell me if a cop does something wrong, they should be held accountable. [/quote]
Again, you will have to define “wrong”.

A cop patrolling a street who sees a dog chained up at the top of a driveway, jumps out of his cruiser, runs up the driveway and shoots the dog for no apparent reason would no doubt be wrong in his action.

A cop responding to a suspicious scene who is confronted by an aggressive dog and shoots the dog would not be.

We could kill the server with examples of situational right and wrong, both defined by action within a scenario.

This isn’t “stretching” or spin either, simple common sense being largely ignored for the sake of hating cops, not wanting to admit fallacy and wanting really badly to “prove” HG wrong.

We are again being emotional as opposed to rational.[/quote]

I asked one of my family members and this person said they would’ve shot the dog too, if the command was made to “get your dog” and it wasn’t heeded. When I pointed out the video and told about the limited time the owner had to do so, then this person said…“yeah that’s a tough situation but it wasn’t right.” I’m just skipping conjecture and asking family and friends who are cops in law enforcement.[/quote]
That’s cool. In the video you can’t see the dog or the shot, leaving conjecture intact.

But yes under the circumstance, excepting conjecture around unseen actions to a command, cops would shoot the dog and rightly so. Thanks. Pretty sure roscoe confirmed this very early on too.

[HoustonGuy]

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

Well this certainly makes a fireman = a policeman.[/quote]

I have far more experience in similar situations and even on equivalent 911 calls than you do. My experience only came up because of you attacking me for my perspective and being wrong essentially saying I have no idea what I’m talking about, when, in fact, I have infinite times more relevant experience and much better knowledge of these kind of situations than you do.

I have never claimed to be or know what it is to be a cop. That doesn’t mean my experience dealing with animals on 911 life threatening emergency calls with possible violent criminals is irrelevant.

You not only lectured me on what it like to be a cop (which you have absolutely no experience of whatsoever) but you also lectured me on what it’s like to be a firefighter. The absolute illogical, irrational, arrogance of some of your statements is astounding. Your very insinuation that my experience isn’t relevant would require you to know both the life of a firefighter and a cop, of which you know absolutely nothing about either.

I respond to life threatening 911 calls with violent criminals. I deal with protective dogs while trying to get to someone in trouble. That is entirely relevant. And relevant doesn’t mean I’m clamming “firefighter = cop” or another other asinine strawman spin you can come up with.

Oh, but I make equation with equals sign. I have logic. You look more and more like a fool with every post. So, by all means, keep posting.[/quote]
Moving on from the summary of your bullshit, show where it’s illegal for a cop reasonably responding to what he believes is a violent scene to shoot a menacing or even simply distracting dog. Make it a step easier and show me where not only is this not illegal but also not standard practice.

We can find the fool quickly and eliminate like 11 pages of knee jerk emotion.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

Well this certainly makes a fireman = a policeman.[/quote]

I have far more experience in similar situations and even on equivalent 911 calls than you do. My experience only came up because of you attacking me for my perspective and being wrong essentially saying I have no idea what I’m talking about, when, in fact, I have infinite times more relevant experience and much better knowledge of these kind of situations than you do.

I have never claimed to be or know what it is to be a cop. That doesn’t mean my experience dealing with animals on 911 life threatening emergency calls with possible violent criminals is irrelevant.

You not only lectured me on what it like to be a cop (which you have absolutely no experience of whatsoever) but you also lectured me on what it’s like to be a firefighter. The absolute illogical, irrational, arrogance of some of your statements is astounding. Your very insinuation that my experience isn’t relevant would require you to know both the life of a firefighter and a cop, of which you know absolutely nothing about either.

I respond to life threatening 911 calls with violent criminals. I deal with protective dogs while trying to get to someone in trouble. That is entirely relevant. And relevant doesn’t mean I’m clamming “firefighter = cop” or another other asinine strawman spin you can come up with.

Oh, but I make equation with equals sign. I have logic. You look more and more like a fool with every post. So, by all means, keep posting.[/quote]

Moving on from the summary of your bullshit, show where it’s illegal for a cop reasonably responding to what he believes is a violent scene to shoot a menacing or even simply distracting dog. Make it a step easier and show me where not only is this not illegal but also not standard practice.

We can find the fool quickly and eliminate like 11 pages of knee jerk emotion.[/quote]

I don’t know the law regarding cops and have not commented on legality to this point in the thread. Quit making shit up.

What is reasonable is a judgment call. I don’t think it was reasonable based on my moral compass and my experience in similar situations.

I would also have disputed what he believed as well as what he should have believed based again on my experience responding to 911 calls.

You then proceeded to lecture me on who my perspective was wrong and how you had the right perspective, though you apparently have absolutely no experience in anything. Meanwhile explaining what reasonable actions are for an officer in that situation (that you have never experienced in any way)and what firefighters do and don’t deal with and how it doesn’t apply, with apparent inside knowledge of the SOPs for that department and their application to the situation, and what the mental state of the officer was afterward specifically in regard to where you started diagnosing mental disorders. You are the one full of shit.

What the officer did was wrong. What he did was terrible. Was the act itself criminal? I don’t know. I would hope it is. Was the lying about the situation surrounding a shooting criminal? I’m not sure, but again I would hope so. It is purposefully interfering with an investigation if nothing else. Both however were wrong.

Further, it is obvious to everyone else in the thread that the only reasonable and logical explanation for the lie afterward is because the officer himself thought he’d done something wrong. If he’d felt he acted appropriately, there would have been no reason to flat out lie about it.

But again, please keep posting and looking like a moron.

[HoustonGuy]

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

Well this certainly makes a fireman = a policeman.[/quote]

I have far more experience in similar situations and even on equivalent 911 calls than you do. My experience only came up because of you attacking me for my perspective and being wrong essentially saying I have no idea what I’m talking about, when, in fact, I have infinite times more relevant experience and much better knowledge of these kind of situations than you do.

I have never claimed to be or know what it is to be a cop. That doesn’t mean my experience dealing with animals on 911 life threatening emergency calls with possible violent criminals is irrelevant.

You not only lectured me on what it like to be a cop (which you have absolutely no experience of whatsoever) but you also lectured me on what it’s like to be a firefighter. The absolute illogical, irrational, arrogance of some of your statements is astounding. Your very insinuation that my experience isn’t relevant would require you to know both the life of a firefighter and a cop, of which you know absolutely nothing about either.

I respond to life threatening 911 calls with violent criminals. I deal with protective dogs while trying to get to someone in trouble. That is entirely relevant. And relevant doesn’t mean I’m clamming “firefighter = cop” or another other asinine strawman spin you can come up with.

Oh, but I make equation with equals sign. I have logic. You look more and more like a fool with every post. So, by all means, keep posting.[/quote]

Moving on from the summary of your bullshit, show where it’s illegal for a cop reasonably responding to what he believes is a violent scene to shoot a menacing or even simply distracting dog. Make it a step easier and show me where not only is this not illegal but also not standard practice.

We can find the fool quickly and eliminate like 11 pages of knee jerk emotion.[/quote]

I don’t know the law regarding cops and have not commented on legality to this point in the thread. Quit making shit up.

What is reasonable is a judgment call. I don’t think it was reasonable based on my moral compass and my experience in similar situations.

I would also have disputed what he believed as well as what he should have believed based again on my experience responding to 911 calls.

You then proceeded to lecture me on who my perspective was wrong and how you had the right perspective, though you apparently have absolutely no experience in anything. Meanwhile explaining what reasonable actions are for an officer in that situation (that you have never experienced in any way)and what firefighters do and don’t deal with and how it doesn’t apply, with apparent inside knowledge of the SOPs for that department and their application to the situation, and what the mental state of the officer was afterward specifically in regard to where you started diagnosing mental disorders. You are the one full of shit.

What the officer did was wrong. What he did was terrible. Was the act itself criminal? I don’t know. I would hope it is. Was the lying about the situation surrounding a shooting criminal? I’m not sure, but again I would hope so. It is purposefully interfering with an investigation if nothing else. Both however were wrong.

Further, it is obvious to everyone else in the thread that the only reasonable and logical explanation for the lie afterward is because the officer himself thought he’d done something wrong. If he’d felt he acted appropriately, there would have been no reason to flat out lie about it.

But again, please keep posting and looking like a moron.[/quote]
“I don’t know the law but this is my opinion and because I’m a fireman it’s true” would be an accurate summary.

So who is forcing an opinion on whom? Don’t be a moron.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
“I don’t know the law but this is my opinion and because I’m a fireman it’s true” would be an accurate summary.

So who is forcing an opinion on whom? Don’t be a moron.[/quote]

Worst illogical strawman in history. Let me summarize your position then:
“Everyone else just doesnâ??t know what it’s like to be a cop in that situation. What? You guys are calling me out on the fact that I have no idea about any of the absolute bullshit I’m spouting as fact? Well, it doesn’t matter that I’m 45, live in my mom’s basement and still breast feed. You guys are spinning and I have logic and stuff.”

You seriously told me I was wrong about what it’s like being a firefighter. Will you at the minimum admit that you were talking out your ass about that and that you have no idea what my experience is and if it’s is relevant or not?

And please explain how I forced an opinion on anyone. YOU are the one that started attacking and belittling my opinion and my experience. I never said that I had the “right perspective” and that anyone else’s experience is wrong. You did.

[HoustonGuy]

I’m 67 and live in my great grandmothers attic.

I told you being a fireman is not the same as being a cop when you tried to make the argument that because you are a fireman you know what it is to be a cop.

Because of this, I said your perspective is wrong and you inadvertantly agreed.

Then you go on to state that because my view doesn’t match your fireman experience I’m a 45 year old, breast feeding basement dweller.

Cool story.

The cop reasonably believed he was at a dangerous scene and acted accordingly, whether or not he personally enjoys shooting dogs.

With every post you are looking like an overly emotional douche bag with no real point outside of reactionary emotion and a strong need to feel right.

[HoustonGuy]

And yes, a fireman equaling a cop is a pretty fucking horrible strawman. To that, I agree.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I’m 67 and live in my great grandmothers attic.

I told you being a fireman is not the same as being a cop when you tried to make the argument that because you are a fireman you know what it is to be a cop.

Because of this, I said your perspective is wrong and you inadvertantly agreed.

[/quote]
No, I never agreed. I never said I know what itâ??s like to be a cop. And by this reasoning, your opinion is even less valid than mine.

Then you go on to state that because my view doesn’t match your fireman experience I’m a 45 year old, breast feeding basement dweller.

Well, first, I was intentionally creating a strawman in that statement and meant to be facetious. And no, the fireman stuff was brought up in retort to you claiming my view was incorrect and that I didnâ??t know that the right perspective was. I then honestly asked what your experience was and found out you had none. Me now pointing out your lack of experience is pointing out your gross hypocrisy in your own argument, not an attempt to invalidate your view through my own reasoning.

Cool story.

The cop reasonably believed he was at a dangerous scene and acted accordingly, whether or not he personally enjoys shooting dogs.

The cop did indeed have reason to be cautious. He should have also had a reasonable reservation about the reality he was walking into. 911 calls are wrong all the time. Locations are wrong all the time (brush fires in the middle of nowhere are the worst). It could of easily been a woman trying to get back at her husband because she was mad. I think it’s absolutely wrong to draw a weapon on a non-threatening individual based on an alleged incident at an alleged address. I DO believe he needlessly escalated the situation that resulted in the wrongful death of a pet and then proceeded to try to cover up his poor judgment by lying about it all.

[quote]

With every post you are looking like an overly emotional douche bag with no real point outside of reactionary emotion and a strong need to feel right. [/quote]

All you have done is proclaim what the right view is and proclaim what a reasonable thing to do in that situation.

[Big_Boss]

There are two different arguments going on…and they are grossly being criss-crossed.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Pretty sure roscoe confirmed this very early on too.[/quote]

My dog’s name is roscoe, and I have a half second of an image of my dog as a cop every time you mention the name. Hah!

[angry_chicken]

If the cop REALLY felt “endangered” he would have certainly called for backup. He must not have felt THAT scared. And if he REALLY felt like he was fully justified in shooting the dog, he never would have LIED about it.

HG, why can’t you admit that the cop fucked up?

No one is saying that a cop is not within his right to shoot a dog if he feels threatened.

The point is that THIS cop gave conflicting orders, didn’t give the “suspect” (a man in his garden during the day, not dangerous thug in a dark ally - he wasn’t even wearing a hoodie!) enough time to respond to ANY of the commands!

Then he LIED.

I think ANYONE with any kind of mature judgement can say that this situation was not handled properly. From the fuck up at the 911 call center to the inadequate handling of the “situation” (which really WASN’T a “situation” at all)

And now someone’s dog is dead.

Regardless of how “justified” the cop was or wasn’t, it’s not JUSTICE when the STATE can knock down someone’s fucking door and kill their dog! WITHOUT A CONSEQUENCE

That certainly isn’t a country I want to live in.

[HoustonGuy]

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
If the cop REALLY felt “endangered” he would have certainly called for backup. He must not have felt THAT scared. And if he REALLY felt like he was fully justified in shooting the dog, he never would have LIED about it.

HG, why can’t you admit that the cop fucked up?

No one is saying that a cop is not within his right to shoot a dog if he feels threatened.

The point is that THIS cop gave conflicting orders, didn’t give the “suspect” (a man in his garden during the day, not dangerous thug in a dark ally - he wasn’t even wearing a hoodie!) enough time to respond to ANY of the commands!

Then he LIED.

I think ANYONE with any kind of mature judgement can say that this situation was not handled properly. From the fuck up at the 911 call center to the inadequate handling of the “situation” (which really WASN’T a “situation” at all)

And now someone’s dog is dead.

Regardless of how “justified” the cop was or wasn’t, it’s not JUSTICE when the STATE can knock down someone’s fucking door and kill their dog! WITHOUT A CONSEQUENCE

That certainly isn’t a country I want to live in.[/quote]
Because I don’t believe the cop fucked up in his actions, “maturity” not withstanding.

Responsibility for the dead dog lies with the call center.

I realize your sentiment fits DD, Orion and BB’s sentiment and the arguments I’ve made to them stand for you as well.

[HoustonGuy]

And by the time the dog showed up, calling back up would’ve been a moot point. The dog would be faster.