Possible yes. Im also a bit afraid of the psychological effects it may have. Sometimes even now I have anger issues and get aggressive to the point where I dont mind to go into fight for some stupid shit especially when driving a car. After that I feel sorry about my behavior. Im afraid testosterone may elevate that
I’m not saying it’s true I’m just saying what he said was the most effective way of using it. @unreal24278 can likely explain the reasoning of why for fertility to wait until you are ready to conceive. I’m sure there’s likely many ways of using it.
Yea but his reasoning for using it that way is based on a myth. Thats all I am saying.
@vonko1988
I feel less aggressive and my anger more in check while on TRT personally. I boxed golden glove when I was younger and love to fight but I don’t have that need to prove myself anymore. I’m also a lot bigger now.
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@mythbusters can you settle this one and for all?
D’Agata R, Vicari E, Aliffi A, Maugeri G, Mongiol A, Gulizia S. Testicular Responsiveness to Chronic Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Administration in Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1982;55(1):76-80.
Steroidogenic responsiveness to long term hCG administration (1500 U three times a week for 23 months) was characterized in 8 males with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HH). During hCG treatment, testosterone (T), which was in the prepuberal range under basal conditions, rose considerably to the upper end of the normal range and remained at that level during the 23 months of observation. A 2.5-fold increase was observed in serum levels of 17{beta}-estradiol (E2) an increment less than seen with T. The increment in 17{alpha}-hydroxyprogesterone was also lower than that in T throughout the study; thus, the 17{alpha}-hydroxyprogesterone to T ratio, despite continuous hCG administration, remained low. Serum androstenedione was slightly increased during hCG therapy. No significant changes were observed in serum levels of dehydroepiandrosterone. These data indicate that continuous long term hCG administration stimulated T levels in HH, with a relatively small change in E2. The kinetics of the T and E2 responses to 2000 U hCG, evaluated after 23 months of therapy, indicated that the testicular response was markedly reduced. No increment in T levels was observed at 24 h; the maximal response occurred at 48 h. This pattern of T response supports the idea that partial testicular desensitization occurs in HH patients receiving chronic treatment with hCG.
So 1500 IU three times per week and “TT remained at that level for 23 months”
If there was any “loss of effectiveness” then TT would have dropped.
It is also important to note " With a relatively small change in E2"
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I’m sold
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I used to think there was desensitization too, I actually got into a huge argument about it years ago with Scally. He was right.
Thats when we started doing restarts and saw that it wasn’t true for ourselves.
So seems HCG does not loose effectiveness over time?
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Seems the verdict is in and the jury has spoken. It doesn’t lose effectiveness.
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And now that we are here, it makes you wonder if it is possible to permanently shutdown your HPTA with AAS use, or propecia or any type of drug-induced hypogonadism.
I started with levels around 550, four reasons:
- Last year I was in the 400s and it was horrendous for me. I don’t have any interest in going back there as I age, and I can’t imagine 500 is magically better either. So I’m hoping that going higher will feel a lot better.
- Long standing ED/libido issues. I’ve tried everything else, and I’ve gotten so sick of taking Cialis in my 30s (started in my 20s really). I’m super attracted to my girlfriend, and whereas other girls I’ve been with in recent years I’d make excuses for not getting it up, with her I can get by 75% of the time without Cialis. Get by…not feel my best.
- I was prescribed TRT a year ago, and “tried” it a few times and found it helped immensely with sexual and mental health issues. I understand some of this is the honeymoon period, but it gave me hope. Dr Saya agreed with me that this was a worthy consideration, even though I didn’t make their cutoff TT after recent bloodwork.
- Low FT - almost always under 10 or 1.7%, which I’ve read in multiple places is where a fair amount of guys start experiencing issues. Given I have those issues, I figured it’s worth a shot.
There’s no rush…last year when I had my first Defy consultation, I was thinking only weeks ahead in fixing the problems. I backed down, and spent a lot of time and effort getting my levels as high as I reasonably could naturally, only to get them to where they were 3 years ago when I wasn’t trying. I’m willing to make sacrifices, but when it reached a point I couldn’t go out (not even drinking!) with friends, or I’d freak out about staying up too late with the girlfriend, or had to run my diet like military boot camp, I realized I was fighting a battle I wasn’t interested in.
In the end my therapist especially convinced me to try it, asking me if I wanted to live the rest of my life chasing a better feeling of well being while popping Cialis every time I wanted to have sex - when something much better could be right in front of me. I decided it was worth the risk of trying.
I can relate to the anger issues too. I’ve noticed two things…some of those issues are psychological and I still need to put the work in to fix, and others TRT has helped me feel calmer in addressing. You really start to see things fall into perspective a lot better, and managing your emotions becomes much easier. On a bad day though (crashed E2, too little T for a while, etc), I start turning into a pissy brat. Good day example: I took a hefty financial loss recently in the stock market along with some stupid purchases. Instead of flipping out, I more calmly saw it for what it was - lost money that I would have to plan how to rebuild, with little sense in complaining about.
In a nutshell…you (ideally) feel calm, collected, confident and like taking charge of the things that matter. Although the confidence boost can result in you expressing your opinions more than people who know you might be used to.
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Which doctor in NYC do you see?
I use a doc out of Georgia. In reality he sends me 10ml of 220mg/ml test & Nolvadex every two months that I do whatever I want with. It’s the way I want it. He would be more involved if I wanted him to be but I like it this way. For $150/month it’s not a bad deal. Plus with a 600 total T before TRT he was willing to prescribe me based on how I felt so I’m loyal to him for that. Plus a many of his clients are epic bodybuilders and his wealth of knowledge on that subject is worth it.
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Bro, what things do you take except T? HCG, AI?
If you’re referring to me then I take this daily:
Testosterone 200mg/week IM daily
5,000iu vit D
100mcg mk-7 vit K
3mg boron
1200mg ashwagandha ksm-66
1000mcg methylcobalamin (sublingual vit B12)
2000mg vit C
Before bed:
600mg magnesium glycinate
2.5mg melatonin
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No HCG and no AI?
How much t you inject daily? I was recommended 30mf ED which seems a bit high but as I read there is a lot of reason to start there
@vonko1988
No hcg and no AI. I started with an AI but after realizing it causes more problems than it helps I stopped and have zero symptoms with an E2 of 77. I inject 28.6mg per day of testosterone (bottle is 220mg/ml)
Many people will say 200mg/week is high but I would bet a majority of people on TRT are on 200mg/week. The ones that come to forums are those that have problems. If 200mg/week is giving you problems and you have given your body enough time to adjust and will have those problems then a dose change is in order. For me 100mg made me feel ok. Not bad not good. 200mg makes me above average mentally and physically so that’s where I’ll stay (I also don’t have negative symptoms at that side which is a factor worth accounting for)
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Sub q I guess?
@vonko1988
Read the post before your last two questions as it answers both of them… IM daily. Did sub-q and had the same results. Either one does the same for me. They are both easy to do and take 30 secs out of my day.