Psychiatry/chology = Pseudosciences

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Oh, Boy…

I NEVER said that our attempt to deal with the extremely difficult problem of the millions of mentally ill was one that was perfect.

…But I also didn’t make it the root of all that is Evil, and that the answer was Coconut Oil and UV lights…

Don’t Straw Man me with arguments I didn’t make. Instead, give some practical and viable alternatives.

Tell you what.

  1. Go to any Mental Health facility in what ever State you live in.

  2. Make an appointment with a family that was at their wits end when they thought that they would lose their Loved one ravaged by mental illness who is at least now a) getting some food and a place to stay b) they can visit and at least carry on a conversation with and c) while not perfect are alive, safer than they were, and still with them.

Mufasa[/quote]

You make it sound better than the Drug companies. Only every story doesn’t have a happy ending like the example you described.

Living in a mental hospital as a walking zombie is a “practical and viable alternative?”

Thats funny since I’ve seen many people,including my cousin, get better without medication.
Yeah,must be that elusive Bullshit mercola preaches.

ONE example out of MILLIONS suffering?

Wow…now I’m just TINGLY all over!

Make sure and tell the Mental Health Authorities and workers in your State that you have all the answers because you had a cousin that got better with UV Light…

Mufasa

Oh, just noticed your avatar…

All those drug pushing whores of the Pharmaceutical Industry at UVA, The Medical College of Virginia and Eastern Virginia would be glad to know that there is someone out there with all the answers.

Give them a call…

Mufasa

Through experimentation, science has been able to discern that, when certain chemicals are of certain quantities within the brain, it has certain effects on perception and behavior.

I visited one of my friends from highschool recently, hearing that she had been diagnosed with chronic depression. Not something too far fetched for a high school student, and I wanted to see how she was. I caught her on her break from work.

I held her for her entire break while she bawled on me, and she couldn’t explain why she was crying. This is a girl who grew up in a regular home, with good parents, went to a good school and had friends who cared for her. But more than that, she couldn’t figure out why she was crying.

Fast forward a few months, she’s been taking anti-depressants, and ya know what? She doesn’t cry randomly during the day for no reason. She feels sad normally, she feels happy normally. Her medication corrects certain imbalances in her brain chemistry that have a negative effect on her life, allowing her to lead a normal, healthy life.

Further back, I had another friend who was much worse off. She lived with her semi-abusive father, couldn’t go to a normal high school and, had she ever been taken to a shrink, would have been diagnosed and clinically depressed (just my guess). She can’t get or afford medication, her dad isn’t helping her out, even the priest at her church couldn’t help her out. Eventually, she committed suicide.
Would she be around today if she had been put on anti-depressants, I don’t know. But she’d have had a better chance.

And those are just a few of the people I’ve known with depression, not even coming near the people I know who’ve had bipolar disorder or diagnosed with schizophrenia. A lot of people I’m friends with would not be able to function or behave like a normal person without clinical psychology and their medications.

Do some people get better from depression on their own? Yes, I’m sure some do. I had depression, but now, years later, I took control and, without doctors or physicians, I’m fine. To this extant, I don’t believe I would have been diagnosed clinically depressed, and if I had been I would have taken the medications and possibly shaved years of pain from my life and the lives of my friends.

So don’t call the people who need to stay in mental hospitals zombies, they’re not, no more than someone who has broken bones. Psychologists aren’t criminals running around selling people snake-oil, because if they were, there would be very few people able to survive with depression and schizophrenia.

This argument is over. When you interact, live, maybe even love someone who has a serious mental disorder, maybe then you’ll appreciate what science has been able to learn and do for the sick.

-Gendou

Great post, gendou…

I’m too close and un-diplomatic about all of this. Your post is much more helpful than all of mine put together.

Mufasa

The level of ignorance in this thread is utterly appalling.

So now that you find one person who did not have a great reaction to psychiatric drugs, they are all worthless and turning people into junkies? Where are you drawing you leaps of logic from?

I know a lot of people who have benefited from these drugs and last time I checked, they were not babbling zombies with no awareness of the world around them.

If we can all agree that there are people out there with real conditions, I fall strongly in Mufasa’s camp: What does everyone plan on doing about it? It seems a lot of the critics just choose to shun drugs that have helped MILLIONS because they know a handful that the drugs did not work for.

Hey, maybe drugs were not the answer in their unique case or maybe they were just not on the right drugs. This is not an attempt to create a community of “legal junkies” but an active search for a way to help people.

If you want to immediately throw yourself into a conspiracy theory camp about the pharmaceutical companies, be my guest… but it’s a pretty weak argument. That would assume every physician and psychiatrist was in their pocket and that’s just silly.

The human brain is incredibly complex and so they are not always going to have the perfect medication for every person just yet… and it’s possible they never will. Hell, it’s probably the case that there are a lot of people who do not need the drugs at all and could use some good counseling… but don’t throw away the drug option given the fact that it has truly HELPED many.

[quote]doogie wrote:
iflyboats wrote:
Musafa, I don’t have any solutions. I don’t need to have any. It ain’t on me. You can realize that something is worthless without having a better idea.

I’m bipolar. When not on medication I go manic, have delusions, and a lot of bad crap happens. When medicated, I have my ups and downs but I don’t go manic and I don’t try to steer my car into oncoming traffic. To declare it as worthless just tells me you haven’t dealt personally with any of it.[/quote]

Well put, doogie.

I love the grenade throwers on here who throw up an ill-thought out post and then declare that they don’t even need to defend their thinly constructed piece of “logic”. It’s a coward’s tool.

Man up and at least actually TRY to defend what you write.

Just a picture of Angelica Pickles to let everyone know that I’m not really a total ass-hole! (Just passionate about some things!)

Mufasa

Oh…

Angelica DOESN’T need meds…

Her parents just need to get her under control!

(Hehe!)

Mufasa

[quote]iflyboats wrote:
Musafa, I don’t have any solutions. I don’t need to have any. It ain’t on me. You can realize that something is worthless without having a better idea.[/quote]

When you’ve seen the difference between a person who is suffering from catatonic schizophrenia on and off their medication you can come on here and pretend to know what you’re talking about you insipid little uneducated trolling shitbag.

[quote]Leeuwer wrote:
Many succesful managers, CEO’s, and the heads of major business corporations are in fact psychologists.
[/quote]

Not to call you out, but can you (or anybody for that matter) name any of these high-powered psychologists? I’m very curious.

[quote]Kuz wrote:
The level of ignorance in this thread is utterly appalling.

So now that you find one person who did not have a great reaction to psychiatric drugs, they are all worthless and turning people into junkies? Where are you drawing you leaps of logic from?

I know a lot of people who have benefited from these drugs and last time I checked, they were not babbling zombies with no awareness of the world around them.

If we can all agree that there are people out there with real conditions, I fall strongly in Mufasa’s camp: What does everyone plan on doing about it? It seems a lot of the critics just choose to shun drugs that have helped MILLIONS because they know a handful that the drugs did not work for.

Hey, maybe drugs were not the answer in their unique case or maybe they were just not on the right drugs. This is not an attempt to create a community of “legal junkies” but an active search for a way to help people.

If you want to immediately throw yourself into a conspiracy theory camp about the pharmaceutical companies, be my guest… but it’s a pretty weak argument. That would assume every physician and psychiatrist was in their pocket and that’s just silly.

The human brain is incredibly complex and so they are not always going to have the perfect medication for every person just yet… and it’s possible they never will. Hell, it’s probably the case that there are a lot of people who do not need the drugs at all and could use some good counseling… but don’t throw away the drug option given the fact that it has truly HELPED many.[/quote]

Great post. It does seem strange that the people that bash psychiatry/psychology pass judgements that slice the core of a medical science have acquired their deep knowledge of the field from the comfort of an armchair, not from the positive effect it has on real people that have real and threatening issues.

Mufasa,

You forgot the Emotional Freedom Technique! Mercola is such an ass. I truly believe he has gone insane along with Paul Chek. I just erase his weekly newsletters now without reading them. They’re the same garbage every week… fish oil, and EFT will solve everything.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
ONE example out of MILLIONS suffering?

Wow…now I’m just TINGLY all over!

Make sure and tell the Mental Health Authorities and workers in your State that you have all the answers because you had a cousin that got better with UV Light…

Mufasa[/quote]

One example? What are you denoting?
I remember hearing about two suicides and one homicide on the local news alone last year. Even the FDA themselves say that antidepressants raise suicide risks in teenagers. New warnings have surfaced about the risk of suicide from selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressant drugs, which include Paxil, Prozac and Zoloft.

There aren’t answers for EVERYTHING,nor will it ever be that easy. But most people I’ve seen who fought severe depression ate a shitty diet,drank too much,sometimes did drugs,never got any sun light or omega 3’s (yes,it is important for the brain to have it’s omega 3’s since a good portion of our brain is mostly fat),etc.

When I suffered from severe depression I didn’t live a healthy life style. Not to mention,I was always putting bad thoughts in my head. Even you can be your own worst enemy when you’re fighting depression if you consistently put shitty thoughts in your head. There are natural things you can do to fight depression,anxiety,etc.

Healthy diet,omega 3’s,sun light,exercise-which by it’s self has proven to help fight depression by 70%.
After you have that in place you can look into other natural methods.
ADDRESS your problems.

Most people,including myself, who fight depression usually don’t address their problems,nor do they usually address their fears.

Sugar pills,believe it or not, have been found to work just as good,if not better, than antidepressants. According to a new analysis, "the majority of antidepressant trials conducted by drug companies have found that sugar pills, or placebos, produce results similar to or better than antidepressant drugs.

In one study of 96 antidepressant trials conducted between 1979 and 1996, no difference could be determined between the effects of antidepressants and sugar pills in some 52 percent of trials."

I could go on about the positives and negatives. But people have to learn to quit being puppets for the drug companies and not rely on them to “treat” their symptoms with their ever-so wonderful band-aid approach by using their Pseudo “maintenance therapy’s”,etc.
Yeah,prozac for life. That’ll do much.

As far as bipolar disease goes,not everyone who has bipolar is the same.

If you find a medication that works for you with little to no side effects,then thats great.
But you have to take time to figure out what you want to be doing five years down the road and if you’ll be better or “healthy” enough to discontinue use of your medication.

I’m not saying drugs shouldn’t be used,but I do,however,believe in rare and only severe,life threatening, situations drugs should be used.
I just think it’s outrageous how little Timothy is feeling a little blue and decides to get a drug from his doctor and not try ANYTHING else.

[quote]florin wrote:
iflyboats wrote:
I don’t mean to come off like a scientologist

I don’t mean to come off like I’m selling you a beach property in Arizona, but I am a real estate agent after all, and I do operate in Arizona, and I do have a couple nice condos with great view to the ocean.[/quote]

lol.

Well, good ol’ L. Ron Hubbard. What an example for mankind. The true picture of competency at its finest. Accomplishments galore! Of course everything is self proclaimed, with no proof…but who cares, who needs proof when you’ve reached the upper echelons of la la fucking land.

Here is a nice read.

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/cult/l-ron-hubbard/

I would have to go with Cthulhu’s point of view in this thread, being a sufferer of severe depression myself.

I’ve tried SSRIs and MAOIs and tricyclics and RIMAs and you know what? Fuck it all, I’d rather deal with my condition through alternative or natural methods. Being on those meds is a weird feeling and it’s just not quite right.

LOL, “fuck it all” reminded me of that Robin Williams joke -

“…cause they have all these drugs that make you feel better like Zoloft, Prozac…I just wanna have one drug to encompass it all. We will call it Fuckidol…yes…i dont feel anything i dont care for anything …Fuckidol…Im sitting in my own shit, I dont care…Fuckidol…But they usually have some strange side effect like - ‘Warning may cause artificial insemination’”

If you guys can’t understand that personal anecdotes, poor science, judging people’s Lifestyles, fish oil and “statistical fear-mongering” will NOT take care of the needs of the millions of the severely mentally ill, then I’m done.

Taking care of the needs of a POPULATION/SOCIETY is not easy, and takes a LOT more than “pie-in-the-sky” thinking.

Don’t you think that if things were as easy as Tom Cruise and Mercola make it, that it would have been done?

Oh yeah…we’re all whores for the Pharmaceutical Companies…

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
If you guys can’t understand that personal anecdotes, poor science, judging people’s Lifestyles, fish oil and “statistical fear-mongering” will NOT take care of the needs of the millions of the severely mentally ill, then I’m done.

Taking care of the needs of a POPULATION/SOCIETY is not easy, and takes a LOT more than “pie-in-the-sky” thinking.

Don’t you think that if things were as easy as Tom Cruise and Mercola make it, that it would have been done?

Oh yeah…we’re all whores for the Pharmaceutical Companies…

Mufasa[/quote]

and you think that drugging them all into a stuporous state, or locking them up in psychiatric institutions is the answer? Bowing and scraping to the so-called authorities who really don’t understand the brain, mind, psyche, spirit, soul of a human being themselves? Empirical, materialist science will save us all?

I wouldn’t throw away the value of psychiatry/psychology as a useful body of knowledge, but on the other hand, I don’t FULLY subscribe to its complete authority over the field of the human mind.

There are other ways to heal the mentally ill besides putting it all down to the movement of chemicals and molecules in the brain, and dispensing drugs to try and control the so-called fault.

I’m not a fan of fish oil either.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
If you guys can’t understand that personal anecdotes, poor science, judging people’s Lifestyles, fish oil and “statistical fear-mongering” will NOT take care of the needs of the millions of the severely mentally ill, then I’m done.

Taking care of the needs of a POPULATION/SOCIETY is not easy, and takes a LOT more than “pie-in-the-sky” thinking.

Don’t you think that if things were as easy as Tom Cruise and Mercola make it, that it would have been done?

Oh yeah…we’re all whores for the Pharmaceutical Companies…

Mufasa[/quote]

No. Nothing will ever be that easy. Nor has it been that easy for me thus far.
However,we were born with brains I do believe. I also believe we were born with some form of common sense. And the drug Companies are REALLY good at brain washing us into thinking that every health problem we have is just too complex for us to take care of therefore rendering us too incompetent to take care of ourselves and our own health.
How is it “pie in the sky thinking?”
And giving some kid a bunch of drugs that do nothing more than mentally sedate him and shipping him of to some hospital in the stinks somewhere, later becoming another statistic, isn’t a “pie in the sky, get rid of them all fast and easy” approach?