Protestants Q&A

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:
I think maybe an interesting one to consider also Chris is, why didn’t Jesus, as part of his ministry, write the Bible (or at least the New Testament)?[/quote]

God had a plan, and it didn’t involve Jesus authoring texts. I don’t think God left it up to pure fate that some of Jesus’s followers wrote about his deeds. He also didn’t leave it up to fate when he intervened in the life of Paul who authored much of the New Testament. So while Jesus was out doing, others were watching and preparing to write.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< The bible is the living word of God, not the dead former word of God. If God quit having anything to do with us, the bible is useless and cannot help us now.[/quote]The bible is the written Word of God. Jesus is the Living Word of God. It wouldn’t have mattered who made your comment Pat. I would still have given this response.
[/quote]

And it would matter who you responded to, you’d still be wrong. Jesus is the word incarnate, the bible is the Living word. Go look it up, don’t take my word for it, like you would.[/quote]

The Dei Verbum is the word of God, or Divine Revelation. It is the “living and timely word” of God. The Bible is the “written” word of God in the sense of distinction, that it is not the oral word of God; however, as I quoted above of Pope Benedict XVI, it is the “living and timely word” of God (Verbum Domini).

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:
I think maybe an interesting one to consider also Chris is, why didn’t Jesus, as part of his ministry, write the Bible (or at least the New Testament)?[/quote]

God had a plan, and it didn’t involve Jesus authoring texts. I don’t think God left it up to pure fate that some of Jesus’s followers wrote about his deeds. He also didn’t leave it up to fate when he intervened in the life of Paul who authored much of the New Testament. So while Jesus was out doing, others were watching and preparing to write. [/quote]
Not disputing any of that, but it is worth noting that God became incarnate thus showing that He wanted to work through and with men. Following this, Christ came to redeem mankind and establish a Church and He did this by teaching and appointing those who would teach in His stead until He returned (not by authoring books). The point I was trying to make is the importance of the Church, not over and in opposition to the Scriptures, but as the source of them, and proclaimed by them, to be the pillar and foundation of the truth.


Edit: misread, please ignore.

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:
I think maybe an interesting one to consider also Chris is, why didn’t Jesus, as part of his ministry, write the Bible (or at least the New Testament)?[/quote]

Look up the Jesus letters.

And, because he was a Jew, they taught in oral tradition.

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:
I think maybe an interesting one to consider also Chris is, why didn’t Jesus, as part of his ministry, write the Bible (or at least the New Testament)?[/quote]

God had a plan, and it didn’t involve Jesus authoring texts. I don’t think God left it up to pure fate that some of Jesus’s followers wrote about his deeds. He also didn’t leave it up to fate when he intervened in the life of Paul who authored much of the New Testament. So while Jesus was out doing, others were watching and preparing to write. [/quote]

Lol.

[quote]pat wrote:

Edit: misread, please ignore.[/quote]

Resend those PM’s.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Edit: misread, please ignore.[/quote]

Resend those PM’s.[/quote]

I did send you one…WTF?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
That’s OK, I have one. Well, a few, that actually don’t ignore the author of the book.
[/quote]

I don’t even know what this means. Anyway, re-read some GK and found this very interesting:

This is the Protestant Challenge! I answered all these while I was a protestant…and well it’s your turn. If you have the good will to believe that protestantism is right, you should have no problem answering these problems in good faith either.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
This is the Protestant Challenge! I answered all these while I was a protestant…and well it’s your turn. If you have the good will to believe that protestantism is right, you should have no problem answering these problems in good faith either.

[quote]
Where did the Bible come from? When was it codified? What books were first listed as belonging in the Christian canon? How has the canon changed over time in various groups? What books were included in the first edition of the King James Bible? When did the Council of Jamnia take place, who were its members, and what did it do?

Before the Books of the Bible were canonized, how was the Gospel spread? Before the printing press was invented some one-thousand and five hundred years after Christ, how was the Gospel spread? How do the answers to these questions apply to the concept of “sola scriptura,” or the “Bible alone” as the rule of faith? What does 2 Peter 3:16 warn against? 2 Peter 1:20-21 says Scripture is of ___ ____________ _____________? What does the word “profitable” mean? In 2 Timothy 3:16-17, what does the word “profitable” mean? Does “profitable” mean “is sufficient for” in any dictionary? Was there a New Testament canon at the time Paul wrote that verse? If not, then what Scripture was he referring to?

What do 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2 Thessalonians 3:6 and 1 Corinthians 11:2 say about Tradition? When did this Tradition stop being in effect? What did Jesus mean when He told his followers to heed those who sat on the Chair of Moses in Matthew 23:2? What does that say about Jesus’ expectations for his followers to obey earthly authority?

What does 1 Timothy 3:15 indicate is the rule of faith? What do you believe is the rule of faith, and why?

The man to whom Jesus is speaking in Matthew 16:18-19: what was his name before those verses? What was his name after those verses? What does that name mean? What language did Jesus speak? What is the name given to this man in Jesus’ original language? What does that word mean? What other people in the Bible were given name changes? What did name changes signify in Hebrew life? What metaphoric object does Jesus give the man in Matthew 16:18-19? What does this symbolize? What did they symbolize in Isaiah 22? What are “binding and loosing”?

If Christ is a High Priest, and we are members of His royal priesthood, what are the offerings of each? If Christ is a High Priest forever, can his offerings have stopped? Did the fact that the Israelites were members of the royal priesthood negate the ordained Levite priesthood? Did the New Testament Church have bishops, elders (presbyteros, priests), and deacons or was it non-hierarchical? What is the rebellion of Korah mentioned in Jude 1:11? (hint: see Numbers 16:3) What does it mean that Jesus is a “High Priest after the order of Melchizedek”? In John 6:52-58, what is the meaning of the word “is”? In I Corinthians 11:23-30, why does Paul say some people become sick – and what does that indicate to you? Since Messiah has come, where today are the incense and “pure offering” offered up as predicted in Malachi 1:10-11? What is the root word of the word “priest”? What is the root word of the word “presbyter”?

How does Paul refer to himself in 1 Corinthians 4:14-15? In what way do the Apostles treat new Christians according to 1 Thessalonians 2:11? How does Paul refer to Isaac in Romans 9:10? How does John address his audience in 1 John 2:13?

What does I Peter 3:18-21 say baptism does? Whom does Acts 2:38-39 say that baptism is for? Whom does it indicate the promise of baptism is for? What does Colossians 2:11-12 compare baptism with? When were people circumcised to enter into the Old Covenant (i.e., at what age)? Did or did not Paul baptize entire households? In John 3:1-7, it says we are to be baptized in the Spirit and _______? In Whose name are we to be baptized according to Matthew 28:19? Do you believe something different about Baptism than what these verses teach? If so, why? How did the earliest Christians baptize according to the non-canonical writings of the earliest Christians (e.g., the Didache, written in about 50 AD)?

According to Acts 8:14-17 and Acts 19:5-6, what did Peter, Paul and John do in addition to baptizing? Do you believe that what they did is unimportant? If so, why?

What do Proverbs 28:13 and 1 John 1:9 say we should do with our sins? What authority was given to the twelve who were with Jesus in the Upper Room in John 20:21-23? What power was given specifically to Simon Peter in Matthew 16:19? What sort of ministry is described in 2 Corinthians 5:18? Do you believe something different than what these verses teach? If so, why?

How does James 5:14 describe how the elders (presbyters, priests) dealt with the sick? What did they use to help the sick? Does the faith community you’re involved with do this? If not, why not?

What does Matthew 19:6 say about marriages that are put together by God? Does your faith community teach something different? If so, why?

Mark 12:26-27 says that God is the God of what three people? What does it say about these three people (i.e., what condition are they in)? Is God the God of Abraham? Is God the God of the dead? How can he be both the God of Abraham but not the God of the dead but the living? What does Revelation 6:9-10 say about what the “souls of them that were slain” are doing? Where are those souls? What does Hebrews 12:1 say we are surrounded by? Who are they? What does this say about those who die in Christ? Does your faith community teach something different? If so, why?

What woman in Scripture gave birth to the man who was to rule all nations? Where does Revelation 12 say this woman is? What does the word “magnify” mean? In Luke 1:46-49, what does “magnify” mean? Who is the “Queen in Gold” of Psalm 45:10-17? In what ways does this Psalm make Luke 1:48 clear?

If Christ is the New Adam Christ (Romans 5:14-15, 1 Corinthians 15:22, 1 Corinthians 15:45), who is the New Eve? Who are the only two people in the Old Testament to have been without original sin from their first moments?

What three things did the Ark of the Covenant have within it (hint: see Hebrews 9:4)? What did Mary carry within her and in what ways are the contents of the Ark similar? Compare Luke 1:39-56 and 2 Samuel 6:2-16: in what ways are the Ark of the Covenant and Mary similar?

What is the Jewish “Mourner’s Kaddish” (or “Quaddish”) and why is it prayed? What is the meaning of 1 Corinthians 3:13-15? What does Revelation 21:27 say about the unclean? If you were to die right now, today, would you be clean enough to stand before Almighty God? For whom was Paul praying in 2 Timothy 1:16-18 and what was his condition at that time?

What does James 2:24 say about how we are justified? What kind of faith is mentioned in Galatians 5:6? Whom does Jesus say will enter the Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew 7:21? What does Ephesians 2:8-9 say about the possibility of saving ourselves through works? What does that verse say we are saved by? Does your faith community teach either salvation by faith alone or by works alone? If so, why?

What does Hebrews 3:12-14 indicate about the possibility of departing from God? Under what conditions does it say we can be “partakers of Christ”? In what way does Philippians 2:12 say we should approach salvation? Do you approach salvation in this way? If not, why not? Are babies saved? Are 5 year olds saved? 19 year olds? At what point, if any, do the conditions for salvation change and how do your answers affect the concept of “once saved, always saved”?

What does Acts 7:51 say about the ability to resist the Holy Spirit? What does this mean in terms of the existence of free will? Does your faith community teach something different about free will? If so, why?

What does Luke 23:34 indicate about those who act in ignorance? What does Romans 9:15 indicate about the ultimate sovereignty of God?

Revelation 17:15-18 speaks of a whore which is “that great city.” What is this city according to Revelation 11:8? Where was Christ crucified?

How did the Jewish historian, Josephus, describe the Temple in Jerusalem that was destroyed in A.D. 70?

Why does Jesus say He came according to John 12:25-27? What is the nature of the Kingdom according to John 18:36? How long has this been the nature of the Kingdom according to Matthew 25:34? What do those three verses say to those who might believe Jesus came (and will come again) to set up an earthly kingdom? Does Galatians 3:7-29 differentiate between the “seed of Abraham” and the Church? Who is a Jew according to Romans 2:28-29? With whom is the New Covenant made according to Jeremiah 31:31-34? Are there people who say they are Jews but are not according to Revelation 2:9 and 3:9? Given these verses, are people properly referred to as “Gentiles” when they enter the New Covenant? Did God keep His promises to the ancient Israelites concerning the Holy Land according to Joshua 21: 43-45, 1 Kings 8: 56, Nehemiah 9: 7-8? Why did they lose their rights to the Holy Land according to Deuteronomy 28: 58-68?

What are the Talmud and Kabbalah? What does the Talmud say about Jesus Christ and Mary? How is modern Judaism different from the religion of the Old Testament?

What objects are described in 1 Kings 6:29? What about in Ezekiel 41:17-19? What does this mean in light of Exodus 20:4?

Did the religion of the Old Testament have a sense of sacred time, sacred space, and sacred objects? Is there anything in the New Testament that indicates the concept of consecrated things/places/times has changed? What media does God use to effect miracles in:
Joshua 3:15; 1 Samuel 4-6; and 2 Samuel 11-1?______________
Numbers 21:9?______________
2nd Kings 13:21?______________
Mark 5:25?______________
Acts 5:15?______________
Acts 19:12?______________
What is the true relationship of the people described as “brothers” in: Genesis 11:26-28 and Genesis 14:14? In Genesis 29:15? In 1 Chronicles 23:21-22? In 2 Kings 10:13-14? In Deuteronomy 23:7 and Jeremiah 34:9? In Matthew 23:8? In John 20:17-18 and Matthew 12:49? In 1 Corinthians 15:6? Who is the real mother of “James, the brother of Jesus” according to your view of these verses: Matthew 27: 55-56, Mark 3:18, Mark 15:40, John 19:25, and Jude 1? What does “firstborn” mean (hint: see Exodus 13:2, Exodus 13:14-15, Numbers 18:15)?

What is “Easter” called in Latin? In Italy, France and Spain? What is it called in Germany, Sweden, and Denmark? What do Byzantine Catholics call it? What is the common root word for all these names? What does that root word indicate about the origins of the holy day known in English speaking countries as “Easter”?

Everyone wants to be part of a “New Testament-style Church” – but few are the people who read what the earliest Christians wrote! If worshipping and believing like the Apostles did are, indeed, what you want, then why haven’t you read thoroughly Sacred Scripture, the Didache (the first century “Teachings of the Twelve Apostles”), Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, John Chrysostom, Augustine (all of him, not just the parts that, pulled out of context, seem to support various modern positions!), Hippolytus, etc. Even Origen and Tertullian give witness to what the early Christians believed… How can you know what the earliest Church was like if you don’t look? What is holding you back? If you read these Early Christian Writings, ask yourself: what Church today is like the Church they described? What Church today teaches Bible-based answers to the questions above?
[/quote][/quote]

When my exams are over I will answer these (at least try to anyways).

[quote]BBriere wrote:
Jesus never mentioned anything about the gifts of the Holy Spirit dying out in the Apostolic Age like some say. He never said speaking in tongues was necessary or unnecessary.
I think practicing something like Jesus name only baptism or Oneness modalism is more significant. I wouldn’t advocate a church that did these.

[/quote]
He spent 40 days telling the Apostles everything! The apostles who became heads of regional churches all ordained successors who we know had a Eucharist service with the same prayers used today within 2 generations at most, if not sooner. St. James of Jerusalem is believed to have written the prayers of consecration.

Acts 1
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

[quote]forbes wrote:
When my exams are over I will answer these (at least try to anyways).[/quote]

You can answer them for yourself. I posted this because it was a challenge issued to me by some dear friends.

WHERE did the Bible come from? Several places over a period of 1600 years.

Codified? I don’t understand.

Anyways, I presume you are talking about the Bible and how it was canonized. Well, obviously the old Testament was complete and recognized by Jesus and his disciples, and for hundreds of years prior during the intertestimal period.

As for the New testament, majority of the books were recognized by God’s people by about 186 AD, except for Hebrews, possibly the two letters of Paul, and James. So by this time, already 97% of the Bible was recognized as God’s word and was being circulated.

Eventually, the rest of the NT was recognized. The Bible developed over a period of time, just like the OT. It was not just written by lots of pepole and then a group of religious leaders got together and just put them into one book. The OT was not done that way and neither was the NT.

[quote]forbes wrote:
WHERE did the Bible come from? Several places over a period of 1600 years.

Codified? I don’t understand.

Anyways, I presume you are talking about the Bible and how it was canonized. Well, obviously the old Testament was complete and recognized by Jesus and his disciples, and for hundreds of years prior during the intertestimal period.

As for the New testament, majority of the books were recognized by God’s people by about 186 AD, except for Hebrews, possibly the two letters of Paul, and James. So by this time, already 97% of the Bible was recognized as God’s word and was being circulated.

Eventually, the rest of the NT was recognized. The Bible developed over a period of time, just like the OT. It was not just written by lots of pepole and then a group of religious leaders got together and just put them into one book. The OT was not done that way and neither was the NT. [/quote]

Codify means formalizing to my understanding. Question on this one, do you mean the early writings or do you mean the individual lists the Bishops brought to the Synods?

And, how is it documented that the people accepted and rejected the different books being passed around? For example, how did they know that the Gospel of James wasn’t inspired (even though it has a lot of truth that matches the pious traditions of early Christians)? How did they know that the Didache wasn’t inspired even though it is faithful to the analogy of faith?

This is directed towards Tirib, but anyone can answer it.

Did the Apostles break fellowship with those who were teaching different doctrines than they were teaching? Yes or no?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
This is directed towards Tirib, but anyone can answer it.

Did the Apostles break fellowship with those who were teaching different doctrines than they were teaching? Yes or no?[/quote]I just now saw this and I’m gonna try n get some sleep. The short answer is yes (this was your best trap so far BTW Chris. Yer gittin better)

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
This is directed towards Tirib, but anyone can answer it.

Did the Apostles break fellowship with those who were teaching different doctrines than they were teaching? Yes or no?[/quote]I just now saw this and I’m gonna try n get some sleep. The short answer is yes (this was your best trap so far BTW Chris. Yer gittin better)[/quote]

As you can see there are only two answers. And, you picked the longest answer by one letter.

Well, why don’t you do the same? Paul commands Titus (sometimes I like the King James, just not when he goes to Miami) in 3:10-11, “A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition reject, knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.” So, reject the heretic or the man that believes and teaches different doctrines. Does not the Bible say break fellowship with them? Or, do you believe that it is okay to worship and fellowship with those who believe and teach different doctrines? Is there no problem with doing this?

Next question, did Jesus and the Apostles demand conformity to the doctrines they taught? Yes or no?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
This is directed towards Tirib, but anyone can answer it.

Did the Apostles break fellowship with those who were teaching different doctrines than they were teaching? Yes or no?[/quote]I just now saw this and I’m gonna try n get some sleep. The short answer is yes (this was your best trap so far BTW Chris. Yer gittin better)[/quote]

As you can see there are only two answers. And, you picked the longest answer by one letter.

Well, why don’t you do the same? Paul commands Titus (sometimes I like the King James, just not when he goes to Miami) in 3:10-11, “A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition reject, knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.” So, reject the heretic or the man that believes and teaches different doctrines. Does not the Bible say break fellowship with them? Or, do you believe that it is okay to worship and fellowship with those who believe and teach different doctrines? Is there no problem with doing this? >>>[/quote]What does “reject” mean? AND it is just not possible to deny that comprehensive conformity has an elusiveness 2000 years hence that was more easily overcome while the apostles were still with us. Paul penned this letter to his beloved and trusted brother Titus in the early to mid 60’s somewhere while Titus was on Crete. The location is not insignificant in gaining the import of Paul’s admonition. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< Next question, did Jesus and the Apostles demand conformity to the doctrines they taught? Yes or no?[/quote]Uhhh… no. They agreed with Pat that there’s truth in all religions and everybody not demanding to go to hell wouldn’t. Of course they did. There. I jumped in with both feet. Lemme have it Christopher. Don’t lemme down now.

[quote]forbes wrote:
WHERE did the Bible come from? Several places over a period of 1600 years.

Codified? I don’t understand.

Anyways, I presume you are talking about the Bible and how it was canonized. Well, obviously the old Testament was complete and recognized by Jesus and his disciples, and for hundreds of years prior during the intertestimal period.

As for the New testament, majority of the books were recognized by God’s people by about 186 AD, except for Hebrews, possibly the two letters of Paul, and James. So by this time, already 97% of the Bible was recognized as God’s word and was being circulated.

Eventually, the rest of the NT was recognized. The Bible developed over a period of time, just like the OT. It was not just written by lots of pepole and then a group of religious leaders got together and just put them into one book. The OT was not done that way and neither was the NT. [/quote]

The current bible Cannon was assembled in Synod of Carthage in 397 AD. Martin Luther removed 7 books from the ot and the epistle of James, which was shortly put back.