Protestants Q&A

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
<<< Israel had a religious society, a temple, sacrifices, feasts, etc. but I don’t consider them to have belonged to the church of Christ.[/quote]Paul did and so did the writer of Hebrews. Same gospel.
[/quote]

There’s a difference between the gospel and the church. The church, as organized by Christ, clearly didn’t exist in the old testament (no apostles, no baptism, no sacrament, etc.)[/quote]The church, as covenanted by the Father and bought by the eternally begotten Son preexisted creation. There cannot be the presence of the saving gospel without the church. The ekklesia, the congregation of holy ones, was founded in time when God covenanted with Abraham to bless all the nations of the Earth in his seed. If you think the saints occupying the hall of faith in Hebrews 11 were not the church you have greatly overestimated you own biblical acumen.
[/quote]

The church as established by Christ is not the gospel.

The church as established by Christ is not the saints.

The church is defined and delineated by laws and ordinances.

Jesus said that the laws and ordinances of the old testament were fulfilled in Him. They were done away with. He established new laws and ordinances. He established a new church. The authority structure was different, the laws were different, and the ordinances were different.

You can play semantics about what “church” really means, but nobody can argue that the laws and ordinances established by Christ were very different from those in the old testament.

And regardless, it’s clear that your belief system is a far cry from what Jesus actually taught. You’re like a modern day Saul, in his pharisaical glory, prior to his conversion to the gospel of Christ. Even following his conversion, I think Paul struggled with his pharisaical roots, which is why he was so often at odds with Peter.
[/quote]

So, you need a sponsor for RCIA??? :)[/quote]

Nah, after spending many thousands of hours in service to my former church, I enjoy sleeping in on Sunday mornings :wink:

122

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Take a look. Just you n the Word. It’s right there, until somebody steals it from you with false authority.[/quote]

So…are you advocating that we ignore the author of the book and when the author of the book tries to explain it to us we yell out ‘you have false authority…’

123

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
<<< Israel had a religious society, a temple, sacrifices, feasts, etc. but I don’t consider them to have belonged to the church of Christ.[/quote]Paul did and so did the writer of Hebrews. Same gospel.
[/quote]

There’s a difference between the gospel and the church. The church, as organized by Christ, clearly didn’t exist in the old testament (no apostles, no baptism, no sacrament, etc.)[/quote]The church, as covenanted by the Father and bought by the eternally begotten Son preexisted creation. There cannot be the presence of the saving gospel without the church. The ekklesia, the congregation of holy ones, was founded in time when God covenanted with Abraham to bless all the nations of the Earth in his seed. If you think the saints occupying the hall of faith in Hebrews 11 were not the church you have greatly overestimated you own biblical acumen.
[/quote]

The church as established by Christ is not the gospel.

The church as established by Christ is not the saints.

The church is defined and delineated by laws and ordinances.

Jesus said that the laws and ordinances of the old testament were fulfilled in Him. They were done away with. He established new laws and ordinances. He established a new church. The authority structure was different, the laws were different, and the ordinances were different.

You can play semantics about what “church” really means, but nobody can argue that the laws and ordinances established by Christ were very different from those in the old testament.

And regardless, it’s clear that your belief system is a far cry from what Jesus actually taught. You’re like a modern day Saul, in his pharisaical glory, prior to his conversion to the gospel of Christ. Even following his conversion, I think Paul struggled with his pharisaical roots, which is why he was so often at odds with Peter.
[/quote]

So, you need a sponsor for RCIA??? :)[/quote]

Nah, after spending many thousands of hours in service to my former church, I enjoy sleeping in on Sunday mornings :wink: [/quote]

Well, look no farther! Do you like to dress up for service? Do you also like to dress up for social gatherings? Do you like to sleep in on Sunday? The one day of the week you don’t work?You have found the right Church!

We have Saturday evening Mass right after sunset so you can fulfill your Sunday obligation to the Church, as well as, stay up half the night and sleep in Sunday morning!

I sleep most of Sunday because of working 80 hours a week, but I like to go two steppin on Saturday nights, so I go to Mass (this is an old tradition) on Saturday after work, I go dancing all night long, come home wake up and go scouting through the Ponderosa forest.

Becau

124

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Take a look. Just you n the Word. It’s right there, until somebody steals it from you with false authority.[/quote]

So…are you advocating that we ignore the author of the book and when the author of the book tries to explain it to us we yell out ‘you have false authority…’[/quote]Nope

125

[quote]pat wrote:<<< So, you need a sponsor for RCIA??? :)[/quote]That’s what I was thinkin.

126

[quote]forlife wrote:
Nah, after spending many thousands of hours in service to my former church, I enjoy sleeping in on Sunday mornings :wink: [/quote]

Ha! I get it. I can say all the stuff about masses being at many different times and all that shit, but I really am not trying to convince you, nor convert you…
But I tell you this, you do have a gift for the understanding of faith. In many ways you get it in ways, that, sadly, many theists don’t.
My wish for you, in what ever way it ends up manifesting itself, that you don’t let that gift die and that you use it for good. That’s all.

In you I sense someone, though you doubt he even exists, someone who loves God. Like I said before, you cannot help the way you feel :wink:

127

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< So, you need a sponsor for RCIA??? :)[/quote]That’s what I was thinkin.
[/quote]

Yeah I know, we’re all going to hell…But I’d be the world’s cutest sponsor.

128

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< So, you need a sponsor for RCIA??? :)[/quote]That’s what I was thinkin.
[/quote]

Yeah I know, we’re all going to hell…But I’d be the world’s cutest sponsor.[/quote]Especially with that red white and blue face =] You’re so cuddly and adorable. I can’t take it.

129

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Take a look. Just you n the Word. It’s right there, until somebody steals it from you with false authority.[/quote]

So…are you advocating that we ignore the author of the book and when the author of the book tries to explain it to us we yell out ‘you have false authority…’[/quote]Nope
[/quote]

Well let me just get you registered for RCIA and get you your own Catechism.

130

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[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Take a look. Just you n the Word. It’s right there, until somebody steals it from you with false authority.[/quote]

So…are you advocating that we ignore the author of the book and when the author of the book tries to explain it to us we yell out ‘you have false authority…’[/quote]Nope
[/quote]

Well let me just get you registered for RCIA and get you your own Catechism.[/quote]

RCIA is a pretty good way to learn about Catholicism. Just saying.

131

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Take a look. Just you n the Word. It’s right there, until somebody steals it from you with false authority.[/quote]

So…are you advocating that we ignore the author of the book and when the author of the book tries to explain it to us we yell out ‘you have false authority…’[/quote]Nope
[/quote]

Well let me just get you registered for RCIA and get you your own Catechism.[/quote]That’s OK, I have one. Well, a few, that actually don’t ignore the author of the book.

132

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Nah, after spending many thousands of hours in service to my former church, I enjoy sleeping in on Sunday mornings :wink: [/quote]

Ha! I get it. I can say all the stuff about masses being at many different times and all that shit, but I really am not trying to convince you, nor convert you…
But I tell you this, you do have a gift for the understanding of faith. In many ways you get it in ways, that, sadly, many theists don’t.
My wish for you, in what ever way it ends up manifesting itself, that you don’t let that gift die and that you use it for good. That’s all.

In you I sense someone, though you doubt he even exists, someone who loves God. Like I said before, you cannot help the way you feel ;)[/quote]

Thanks Pat :slight_smile: It’s certainly possible that there is a God, but even if there’s not, I think Jesus was right. The purpose of life, and the only thing truly worthy of our worship, is Love. When we are on our deathbeds, what will matter the most are the people we have blessed, and been blessed by in return.

133

As a man still on the journey for truth, I figured I should ask some more questions of my truth proclaiming brethren. I think about truth and God daily, and various questions come into my thoughts that I do not understand. Because I already started this thread I’ll post some of those questions I have written down over the years.

If everything we need to know as Christians is in the Bible, where in the Bible does it give us the list of books that are supposed to be in the Bible? How do we know that all those books that are in the Bible, (I don’t think anyone here would claim that the Bible just fell from the sky with all the books in it) that claim to be scripture are supposed to be in there?

134

I think maybe an interesting one to consider also Chris is, why didn’t Jesus, as part of his ministry, write the Bible (or at least the New Testament)?

135

Chris, great question. I love when people quote Revelations 22:18-19 to prove revelation stopped with the bible, as if Revelations was the last book written in the bible.

There are a few possibilities:

  1. Pope Damascus I was inspired by God in his selection of which books to include and which to exclude.

  2. Some of the apocryphal books are inspired by God, and/or some books currently in the bible are not inspired (e.g., Song of Solomon).

  3. Rather than stopping with the bible, God continues to communicate with men today.

136

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
As a man still on the journey for truth, I figured I should ask some more questions of my truth proclaiming brethren. I think about truth and God daily, and various questions come into my thoughts that I do not understand. Because I already started this thread I’ll post some of those questions I have written down over the years.

If everything we need to know as Christians is in the Bible, where in the Bible does it give us the list of books that are supposed to be in the Bible? How do we know that all those books that are in the Bible, (I don’t think anyone here would claim that the Bible just fell from the sky with all the books in it) that claim to be scripture are supposed to be in there?[/quote]You are jist a blast Chris LOL!!! I am in no way making fun of you or being the least bit disingenuous when I say that my life has been made more blessed in having met you.

137

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
As a man still on the journey for truth, I figured I should ask some more questions of my truth proclaiming brethren. I think about truth and God daily, and various questions come into my thoughts that I do not understand. Because I already started this thread I’ll post some of those questions I have written down over the years.

If everything we need to know as Christians is in the Bible, where in the Bible does it give us the list of books that are supposed to be in the Bible? How do we know that all those books that are in the Bible, (I don’t think anyone here would claim that the Bible just fell from the sky with all the books in it) that claim to be scripture are supposed to be in there?[/quote]

Nice :slight_smile:

138

[quote]forlife wrote:
Chris, great question. I love when people quote Revelations 22:18-19 to prove revelation stopped with the bible, as if Revelations was the last book written in the bible.

There are a few possibilities:

  1. Pope Damascus I was inspired by God in his selection of which books to include and which to exclude.

  2. Some of the apocryphal books are inspired by God, and/or some books currently in the bible are not inspired (e.g., Song of Solomon).

  3. Rather than stopping with the bible, God continues to communicate with men today.[/quote]

The bible is the living word of God, not the dead former word of God. If God quit having anything to do with us, the bible is useless and cannot help us now.

139

[quote]pat wrote:<<< The bible is the living word of God, not the dead former word of God. If God quit having anything to do with us, the bible is useless and cannot help us now.[/quote]The bible is the written Word of God. Jesus is the Living Word of God. It wouldn’t have mattered who made your comment Pat. I would still have given this response.

140

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< The bible is the living word of God, not the dead former word of God. If God quit having anything to do with us, the bible is useless and cannot help us now.[/quote]The bible is the written Word of God. Jesus is the Living Word of God. It wouldn’t have mattered who made your comment Pat. I would still have given this response.
[/quote]

And it would matter who you responded to, you’d still be wrong. Jesus is the word incarnate, the bible is the Living word. Go look it up, don’t take my word for it, like you would.