Proof Gay Marriage is Wrong

Off Topic
1169

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Well you are consistent as I’ve said before.

You are wrong about the war in Iraq.

Wrong about the media.

Wrong about the role of family.

And now you are wrong about heterosexual men wanting sex from other men (hey maybe you are just talking about yourself lol)

Go play doctor somewher else…

[/quote]

I was wrong about the war in Iraq? You mean that we went in under false intel? Uh, isn’t that exactly what happened?

How was I wrong about the media? What are you even talking about?

The role of family? Again, are you just pulling shit out of your ass and tossing it on screen?

Further, what does Iraq, the media, or your personal family have to do with being a doctor?

1170

[quote]ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Also, what do you think about these closeted people like Jim McGreevy? You don’t think they were gay all along and pretending? You think they just became gay one day in their 40s?

I am not talking about “closet” homosexuals. I am talking about heterosexuals!

The average heterosexual man does not think about sleeping with his male friends.

We really have to move on…

[/quote]

Move on from what? That’s the entire issue. Of course heterosexuals don’t think about sleeping with men. But there are apparently a good number of closeted gays who do and succesffully sleep with their wives for years. Speaks highly to the fact that any gays who are supposededly cured have merely gone into the closet instead of come out ot it.

1171

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Also, what do you think about these closeted people like Jim McGreevy? You don’t think they were gay all along and pretending? You think they just became gay one day in their 40s?

I am not talking about “closet” homosexuals. I am talking about heterosexuals!

The average heterosexual man does not think about sleeping with his male friends.

We really have to move on…

Move on from what? That’s the entire issue. Of course heterosexuals don’t think about sleeping with men. But there are apparently a good number of closeted gays who do and succesffully sleep with their wives for years. Speaks highly to the fact that any gays who are supposededly cured have merely gone into the closet instead of come out ot it.
[/quote]

Well, not the whole issue. But as far as homosexuals turning straight, there’s really no evidence of that beyond that one dubious study.

1172

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:

That doesn’t change the fact that sex is about PREFERENCE when it comes to these labels. A homosexual man is still a man. While how much of one can be debated, he still has a functioning penis. Therefore, it is not impossible that the act itself could take place. Not only that, but I would assume that even a homosexual would get at least some pussy thrown his way over the course of a life time.[/quote]

But the homosexual is supposed to not be interesting in women sexually as he is a homosexual. If he is interested in women sexually then he should be termed a “bisexual.”

And what’s up with Bisexuals anyway? Are we supposed to believe that that is genetic too?

You see this whole liberal “gay is genetic thing” falls apart pretty fast when you examine it.

[quote]If a guy has sex with someone whom he thinks is a woman (but was fooled) does that mean he WANTED sex with a man? No of course not!

Gee, Zeb, that was my point. There have been stories where heterosexual men fall in love with transexuals before knowing about the sex change. Yes, it may be weird, but welcome to the year 2005-2006.[/quote]

Ha well that’s my point too!

Most (overwhelming majority) of men will not-cannot have sex with another man as they are not aroused to do so. But why can homosexual males have sex
with women?

Why don’t you answer that question if you really want to contribute to the thread in a positive way.

[quote]Nothing is “immpossible.” However a large percentage of “gays” have sex with women. Where is the large percentage of heterosexuals to match this?

Why would heterosexuals be trying to match this? [/quote]

Um…they are not “trying” to match this (shaking head). Does anyone else see how difficult it is to have a conversation with this guy? No…I’m really trying here :slight_smile:

How can a homosexual male become aroused enough to have sex with a women if he is in fact a true homosexual?

Answer that one for me…

Well I think you have proven that you THINK you know more about everything than all of us do :slight_smile:

But that aside, why do you care about the repubican party? Why don’t you stop talking about them? BECAUSE they effect the course of this country. Not unlike liberal groups one some of which are gay lobbies.

As far as knowing how people become gay I have to repeat myself as you just are not catching on, so I’ll type in large print again:

I DON’T KNOW HOW PEOPLE BECOME GAY-BUT NEITHER DO THE GROUPS SCREAMING THAT GAYS “ARE BORN THAT WAY.”

Do you understand that yet? Let me know if you need it again. :slight_smile:

If a gay man can become aroused enough to have sex with a woman then I suggest (again) that we should be telling those who state that they are “born that way” to shut up." As that seems not to be the case.

[quote]You have been giving answers in this thread? Keep telling yourself that.
[/quote]

I have been quoting statistics from various reliable sources such as Johns Hopkins University and the Center for Disease Control.

You have been popping in and out complaining about the length of thread and contributing nothing. But then you know that right?

1173

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I was wrong about the war in Iraq? [/quote]

Yes.

You and I were involved in a fairly lengthy debate several months ago regarding the media. I’m not surprised that you would want to forget it.

No that’s your job.

First tell me haw a hetersexual man having sex with a an unattractive woman has anything to do with a “homosexual” man having sex with a woman?

1174

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:

But there are apparently a good number of closeted gays who do and succesffully sleep with their wives for years.[/quote]

I am not at all talking about “closet gays.” I am talking about those men who call themselves homosexual who still manage to sleep with women.

How does that happen if they are truly homosexual?

[quote]Speaks highly to the fact that any gays who are supposededly cured have merely gone into the closet instead of come out ot it.
[/quote]

Wrong!

"Dr. Robert Spitzer (2001)
Dr Spitzer is a psychiatry professor at Columbia University. He conducted a study of 143 ex-gays and 57 ex-lesbians who reported that they have become “straight.” 2 He reported his findings at a meeting of the American Psychiatric Association on 2001-MAY-9. He concluded, as a result of 45 minute interviews with each subject, that 66% of the males and 44% of the females had arrived at “good heterosexual functioning.”

According to Cnn.com, that term is defined as having been “in a sustained, loving heterosexual relationship within the past year, getting enough satisfaction from the emotional relationship with their partner to rate at least seven on a 10-point scale, having satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and never or rarely thinking of somebody of the same sex during heterosexual sex.”

1175

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Well, not the whole issue. But as far as homosexuals turning straight, there’s really no evidence of that beyond that one dubious study.
[/quote]

Quite honestly I don’t think that a person who has same sex attraction can change that to heterosexual attraction unless he/she really wants to!

And that is what many studies have stated clearly.

In one way it’s not unlike the alcoholic who has to want to change in order for change to occur.

Hold on, it’s like that with just about everything huh?

Smoking, drugs, alcohol, etc…

How can one even think of changing if he/she is told repeatedly by those more interested in politics than people, that they were “born that way?”

Did I ever mention that there is no proof that they are born that way? Oh yea I probably did :slight_smile:

1176

[quote]ZEB wrote:

First tell me haw a hetersexual man having sex with a an unattractive woman has anything to do with a “homosexual” man having sex with a woman?
[/quote]

Let’s put this in words you can understand. Do you believe that the stories heard about prison rape are all done at the hand of homosexuals? You believe that every case of this is only a homosexual act? If heterosexual men have been “involved” sexually with other men in prison yet will still claim to be heterosexuals when released…how could that happen? By your own logic, this should be impossible. Could explain this? I would love to see you try to twist and turn through it.

1177

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:

First tell me haw a hetersexual man having sex with a an unattractive woman has anything to do with a “homosexual” man having sex with a woman?

Are you are in essence stating that same sex attraction just “might” be one sort of perversion? Which under just the right circumstances can be occur?

1178

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:

First tell me haw a hetersexual man having sex with a an unattractive woman has anything to do with a “homosexual” man having sex with a woman?

Do you believe that the stories heard about prison rape are all done at the hand of homosexuals? You believe that every case of this is only a homosexual act? If heterosexual men have been “involved” sexually with other men in prison yet will still claim to be heterosexuals when released…how could that happen? By your own logic, this should be impossible. Could explain this? I would love to see you try to twist and turn through it.

Are you are in essence stating that same sex attraction just “might” be one sort of perversion? Which under just the right circumstances can be occur?

[/quote]

I doubt it. I’m sure he’s suggesting the act of sex with another human being is preferable to being relegated to masturbating for 30 years even if it’s one of the same sex. Not that there’s an actual attraction. Personally, I think I’d rather masturbate for 30 years, but then, I’ve never been in prison. I don’t think most prisoners are or become gay or would be having sex with men if women were available.

1179

[quote]ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Well, not the whole issue. But as far as homosexuals turning straight, there’s really no evidence of that beyond that one dubious study.

Quite honestly I don’t think that a person who has same sex attraction can change that to heterosexual attraction unless he/she really wants to!

And that is what many studies have stated clearly.

In one way it’s not unlike the alcoholic who has to want to change in order for change to occur.

Hold on, it’s like that with just about everything huh?

Smoking, drugs, alcohol, etc…

How can one even think of changing if he/she is told repeatedly by those more interested in politics than people, that they were “born that way?”

Did I ever mention that there is no proof that they are born that way? Oh yea I probably did :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Yeah, you did. No proof that they’re not. More evidence than not that it is predominantly genetic, influenced by environmental factors in a way we do not really understand yet. No proof that they can change it even if they wanted to as opposed to pretending to have changed. Of course, it can be like a drug addict as you said. drug addicts can stop taking drugs, but they may never be able to eliminate the cravings. Homosexuals can stop having gay sex and even have normal sex through fantasizing about gay sex. But they may never be able to stop craving gay sex or actually enjoy the woman they are with without fantasizing.

1180

[quote]ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:

But there are apparently a good number of closeted gays who do and succesffully sleep with their wives for years.

I am not at all talking about “closet gays.” I am talking about those men who call themselves homosexual who still manage to sleep with women.

How does that happen if they are truly homosexual?

Speaks highly to the fact that any gays who are supposededly cured have merely gone into the closet instead of come out ot it.

Wrong!

"Dr. Robert Spitzer (2001)
Dr Spitzer is a psychiatry professor at Columbia University. He conducted a study of 143 ex-gays and 57 ex-lesbians who reported that they have become “straight.” 2 He reported his findings at a meeting of the American Psychiatric Association on 2001-MAY-9. He concluded, as a result of 45 minute interviews with each subject, that 66% of the males and 44% of the females had arrived at “good heterosexual functioning.”

According to Cnn.com, that term is defined as having been “in a sustained, loving heterosexual relationship within the past year, getting enough satisfaction from the emotional relationship with their partner to rate at least seven on a 10-point scale, having satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and never or rarely thinking of somebody of the same sex during heterosexual sex.”

[/quote]

Study doesn’t mean much Zeb. The big hole as addressed is the subjective feeling of the gay having sex with the woman. Fantasy on his part can make sex possible and PERHAPS even satisfy the woman. Of course the study is vague and doesn’t say what satisfying is. No mention of whether it’s the subjective satisfaction of either party or the mere act of sex. Sex once a month? Huh. Seems like the gay guy could get through that ordeal and climb ontop his wife once a month and manage to cumb by thinking of Brad Pitt. Are these ex-gays and ex-lesbians married together. Maybe the wife is thinking of Jennifer Aniston. They’re still together in some sense! Yay. haha. (actually, I’d like to see that link to that CNN pole if you have it. Please. Rarely thinking of someone of the same sex during sex with your opposite sex partner itself does not seem normal). I also have to tell you Zeb that I was a psych major. This is one pyschiatric sutdy. The vast majority of psychiatrists disagree with this guy and view his as a crackpot. The general consensus of the psyhciatric and psychological community is NOT than anyone can become ungay but that people can have heterosexual relationships and complete the act of heterosexual sex through fantasy. After law finals are over and I’m finished with my Florida vacation, I’ll try to dig up my old psych book. Which has not one but a summation of hundreds of studies that take that view. But you will probably chalk this vast body of evidence up to liberal bias and prefer to go with the sole study that you have uncovered.

1181

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:

First tell me haw a hetersexual man having sex with a an unattractive woman has anything to do with a “homosexual” man having sex with a woman?

Do you believe that the stories heard about prison rape are all done at the hand of homosexuals? You believe that every case of this is only a homosexual act? If heterosexual men have been “involved” sexually with other men in prison yet will still claim to be heterosexuals when released…how could that happen? By your own logic, this should be impossible. Could explain this? I would love to see you try to twist and turn through it.

Are you are in essence stating that same sex attraction just “might” be one sort of perversion? Which under just the right circumstances can be occur?

I doubt it. I’m sure he’s suggesting the act of sex with another human being is preferable to being relegated to masturbating for 30 years even if it’s one of the same sex. Not that there’s an actual attraction. Personally, I think I’d rather masturbate for 30 years, but then, I’ve never been in prison. I don’t think most prisoners are or become gay or would be having sex with men if women were available.

[/quote]

Or better yet, just as we see some lesser organisms on this planet with the ability to change their sex in the absence of the opposite sex in order for procreation, our sexual preferences are not some untouchable unchanging force but simply another aspect of a poorly understood biology. In other words, it could be seen eventually as no more perverse than a natural change in environment and the biological adaptation to it.

Take this for instance:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/03/0301_040301_genderbender.html
which shows that many scientists are worried about sexual changes appearing in many animals may be linked to environmental changes.

Or, take the Dragon Moray Eel found in the Phillipines which can change sex at will in order to continue propogation of the species. If there aren’t any males around, these fish change sex to become the one male around.

The Coral Trout can also change sex. they start life as female and then change into males once they approach maturity in length. I am sure you knew about all of this, however.

Perhaps what you are so quick to write off as an abomination might be what helps save the planet thousands of years from now. That is, if your mind is open to more possibilities than the minor things you have personally been exposed to in your own life.

1182

I didn’t read through any post, but I just have one question that I pose to all anti-gay marriage proponents.

How can gay marriage be illegal on the grounds that it is not moral based on Christian beliefs when there is a clear seperation of church and state in the United States? “Protecting the institution of marriage,” as the Republicans put it in their platform, is a clear violation of a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT–the institution of marriage they speak of is clearly related to the Christian institution of marriage. This flies straight in the face of the 1st amendment and what John Adams calls seperation of church.

1183

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Perhaps what you are so quick to write off as an abomination might be what helps save the planet thousands of years from now.[/quote]

You know you might have something there.

I have presented many good theroies on why people develop same sex attraction. And so far there is no proof that it is genetic.

I’ve also shown many many statistics which seem to demonstrate that same sex attraction can be changed if the person really wants to change.

But then if everyone changed who would be around to save the planet?

(Is it me or has this entire thread taken a turn for the worse since you know who showed up?)

1184

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I also have to tell you Zeb that I was a psych major. This is one pyschiatric sutdy. The vast majority of psychiatrists disagree with this guy and view his as a crackpot.
[/quote]

The APA is politically correct-It’s not nearly as easy to perform such studies over the past 15 years as you are attacked by claiming anything other than the politically correct party line.

By the way there many studies which demonstrate that homosexuals can change. Spitzer only represents one.

They are far more interested a politics than they are in helping people.

1185

If gay marriage were legal:

  1. Your children, my children, and any children attending public school would be taught that being gay is OK, even though the facts and statistics show otherwise. Although this is happening right now, morally minded parents and teacher have a say in it. They can say “No, we don’t want this.” If gay marriage is legal, the parents have a much smaller say in the matter.

  2. Your health insurance costs would go up. The facts presented in this thread show that gays are a much larger spreader of HIV and AIDS than heteros. Gay marriage would lead the common person to believe homosexuality is ok (e.g., it is legal, so it must be ok), and it is reasonable to believe more people would “try it out”. More gay sex = more AIDS = more health care costs.

  3. The number of pedophiles in the country would likely increase. Ever notice that we see a heck of a lot of gay men abducting and murdering little boys? Don’t be surprised to see more.

more to come…

1186

[quote]danmaftei wrote:
I didn’t read through any post, but I just have one question that I pose to all anti-gay marriage proponents.

How can gay marriage be illegal on the grounds that it is not moral based on Christian beliefs when there is a clear seperation of church and state in the United States? “Protecting the institution of marriage,” as the Republicans put it in their platform, is a clear violation of a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT–the institution of marriage they speak of is clearly related to the Christian institution of marriage. This flies straight in the face of the 1st amendment and what John Adams calls seperation of church.[/quote]

N E W S F L A S H ! ! !

This country was founded on Christian principles by Christian men. There is no proof that the founders of our country intended for the constitution to enable and protect gay marriage, because THE FOUNDERS OF THIS COUNTRY DID NOT INTEND FOR GAYS TO BE GETTING MARRIED.

1187

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Perhaps what you are so quick to write off as an abomination might be what helps save the planet thousands of years from now.

You know you might have something there.

I have presented many good theroies on why people develop same sex attraction. And so far there is no proof that it is genetic.

I’ve also shown many many statistics which seem to demonstrate that same sex attraction can be changed if the person really wants to change.

But then if everyone changed who would be around to save the planet?

(Is it me or has this entire thread taken a turn for the worse since you know who showed up?)

[/quote]

Yes, this thread has taken a downturn. We need to bring back more civilized people like WMD.

1188

[quote]terribleivan wrote:

N E W S F L A S H ! ! !

This country was founded on Christian principles by Christian men. There is no proof that the founders of our country intended for the constitution to enable and protect gay marriage, because THE FOUNDERS OF THIS COUNTRY DID NOT INTEND FOR GAYS TO BE GETTING MARRIED.[/quote]

N E W S F L A S H ! ! !

It’s not about what they intended or didn’t intend, it’s about what’s in the LAW, and the LAW says that there is a S E P E R A T I O N O F C H U R C H A N D S T A T E. Is that how you speak in real life too, Ivan? Listen, Ivan, I hate to rag on you cuz you have a cool nick, but the law states that there is a seperation of church and state, and upholding “the institution of marriage” and not allowing gays to marry is in clear violation of this, as it is based purely on Christian marriage beliefs. There are many other institutions of marriage where marriage is not defined by a union between a man and a woman. And what the fuck is up with conservatives claiming this will be the downfall of civilization? Have you looked at the media lately? Oh yes, two gays who love each other marrying will fuck us all, it’s not the thousands of week-long marriage fuckfests that celebrities engage in. It’s not the rising teen pregnancy rates. It’s gay marriage. Lord have mercy on us all!

As for you other three arguments, I will only respond to them because I am procrastinating writing a midterm paper.

“1) Your children, my children, and any children attending public school would be taught that being gay is OK, even though the facts and statistics show otherwise. Although this is happening right now, morally minded parents and teacher have a say in it. They can say “No, we don’t want this.” If gay marriage is legal, the parents have a much smaller say in the matter.”

Who says gay marriage is wrong? Once again, this is a Christian belief (and Islam), and enforcing it based on the idea that it is “wrong” is a violation of the 1st amendment. And if I hear one more person say “Then who says killing someone or raping someone is wrong?” I’m going to shoot you. The Constitution firmly states the things that every US citizen is entitled to, such as life, liberty, equal education, no discrimination, etc.

Your 2nd and 3rd arguments assume one thing: that because gay marriage is illegal, no one is gay. Or that no one abducts and rapes little boys. Have you heard of a sect of men called “priests” lately? If anything, making gay marriage legal will reduce pedophelia, as a result of less frustration with this fucked up system. And point me to these facts that AIDS and HIV are more carried in gay men? Do you still live in the 80’s?

Ivan, I think you need a N E W S F L A S H ! ! !