Y’know, the only people I know who care as much about gay guys as Zeb does…are gay guys.
Closet case, Zebbie?
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Zeb, your statement that depression, etc… has to do with the lifestyle and not the stigmatization and the way society views them is completely subject. And can’t be proven either way.[/quote]
Then what you are saying is that lothario should not make a claim that his gay friends are depressed because heterosexuals don’t accept their lifestyle!
By the way, I will do more reading on that specific topic.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
Y’know, the only people I know who care as much about gay guys as Zeb does…are gay guys.
Closet case, Zebbie?[/quote]
I think that’s pretty much a natural charge from social liberals. If you speak out against gay marriage you must be a closet homosexual. That is perfectly logical (in their world).
Yea…that makes sense. I hate broccoli and insist on skipping it whenever it is offered. Liberal logic then determines from my actions that I actually love broccoli!
Ha ha…go away until you actually have an argument.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Then what you are saying is that lothario should not make a claim that his gay friends are depressed because heterosexuals don’t accept their lifestyle!
By the way, I will do more reading on that specific topic.
[/quote]
My friends for the most part are pretty well-adjusted. However, they have been the subject of discriminations, dirty looks, threats, etc. in the past. Things are better nowadays than they used to be around here.
ZEB, this is why I wanted you to meet a few gay people and discover what they’ve been through as a result of their stigmatization. It sucks being an outcast. It sucks being shunned. I can identify with my gay friends in that regard because I was the “ugly duckling” growing up. I know what it feels like.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I also asked you a question from the last post which you did not answer. Please answer it:
lothario, let me put it to you this way: what if (and I’m not saying this is the case at all), the statistics showed that every single gay person who had homosexual sex was going to die with in 15 years?
Or, what if they showed that every single gay person was going to kill themselves by the time they were 40? Or, every single gay person was going to have to be on anxiety and depression drugs?
Would you then change your mind and think: “Hey we better help these folks?”
Tell me lothario what exactly would it take for you to actually want to help these people instead of offering them more of what has harmed them?
What effect would those possibilities have on your thought process?[/quote]
I don’t see how these questions apply to reality at all. I guess you don’t see the straw man setup, huh? Create a false image of what you are arguing against, and knock down the false image… ring a bell?
There won’t ever be any studies which prove that gayness causes an early grave, because it doesn’t. HIV will cause an early death. Getting tied to the bumper of a car and being dragged down the road will cause an early death. OD’ing on drugs will cause an early death.
Notice that these things aren’t gayness per se, they are side effects of dangerous behaviors like drug abuse and unprotected sex, and outcomes from stigmatization. None of my gay friends has HIV, nor are they likely engaging in dangerous behaviors which make their risk any greater than mine, for example, to catch the AIDS somehow (I do bloodwork in a hospital, and have exposure to the disease more frequently than most poeple).
They are not just numbers on a page, they are real people just like you and me. Their sexual orientation is not causing them or anybody else any harm.
I was just thinking about my roommate here for a second. In a small way, she’s better off being gay than straight… if she sticks with this nice girl she’s dating, then she won’t ever be at risk of marrying some wife-beating asshole who’s going to give her a black eye once a week. Not that I wouldn’t hand somebody their own spleen who would do that to one of my best friends in the world to begin with, but you get the picture.
This way, I just have to worry about some fool getting in her face and calling her a “rugmunching dyke” or something. If anybody lays a hand on her they are going to have medical problems, though. And I know the folks here at the hospital… it’s going to be a rough stay for anybody stupid enough to try some shit.
Honestly though, I consider the real chances of violence against her to be next to zero. People are pretty chill around here.
I’m thinking just fine for myself, thank you very much. Do you have anything original to bring here besides what some people with an agenda have interpreted the bible to mean? Since we are thinking for ourselves and whatnot, let’s go hog-wild! 
I have contact with gays every single day and night. I have shared what I have seen and experienced in the real world here, and you are stuck quoting HIV statistics like that has a damn thing to do with the personal worth and “deservingness” of my roommate and her girlfriend; my co-worker here in the lab, her “wife”, and their daughter; or some of the nurses upstairs and in the ER, some of the techs in various departments, or one of the administrators that I know about.
This is real life. These are the real facts, ZEB. You jokingly called me a “fact-o-phobe”, and yet you got nothing “real” to bring to the table except for some stats which have no bearing on what we are talking about. The ONLY thing I can possibly see for your side of the argument is the appeal to tradition… that’s it.
Problem with that is the fact that our ideas of tradition have always been mutable. Look at how we as a nation celebrate Christmas now. How many incarnations of the Christmas rituals are there? We have common holiday symbols like Santa, baby midget Jesus, Christmas trees, and drunken eggnog-fueled overnight jail stays, but these common threads are woven into a large and varied tapestry which differs from household to household.
And just like the different Christmases, there will be common elements in gay marriages just like we see in hetero marriages. Rings, family, a marriage contract, etc. Can our nation withstand the incorporation of gay families into our definition of marriage? Sure. Of course. Why not?
Is our marriage tradition that fragile and weak? I don’t think so. If we are any kind of badasses at all, then we will not flinch from extending a hand to our gay neighbors and treating their love relationships as equal to our own.
Or is that too reasonable for you?
PS If gayness is so detrimental to one’s health, then how come every single gay friend of mine is doing just fine? They aren’t dying of HIV or trying to kill themselves or snorting drain cleaner or anything fun like that at all. What gives?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Zeb, your statement that depression, etc… has to do with the lifestyle and not the stigmatization and the way society views them is completely subject. And can’t be proven either way.
Then what you are saying is that lothario should not make a claim that his gay friends are depressed because heterosexuals don’t accept their lifestyle!
By the way, I will do more reading on that specific topic.
[/quote]
Yeah, I’m basically saying that. Although, if they’ve experienced specific instances of discrimination adn ridicule that points strongly towards that having an impact on depression whether or not they are also more predisposed to it. As far as research goes, I don’t think it’s possible to separate out each casual factor. So, it’s ultimately unknowable.
But those are pretty ludicrous and far-out hypotheticals that have little to do with reality. It’s been shown that proportionally more black people are involved in crime. Extending your logic, we could ask "What if every black person went on a massive crime spree.
What if they went on a murderous rampage." Would it make us reconsider our position on race relations. Sure, but ain’t happening any time soon.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Don’t worry, you won’t catch the gay cootie butt flu if you just keep your distance from them.
[/quote]
Hilarious…
The gay cootie butt flu straight man blues, baby. Yeah!
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
WMD wrote:
Did you even read this website? It does not reflect your attitude in any way, shape, form or fashion. This website is for people who are conflicted over their homosexuality, not those who are comfortable in it. They seem to have compassion for people in that conflict, unlike you.
Ok, try and stay focused babe. We have statistically way more adult and teen gay suicide attempts than straight. And you are saying that this website is only for “conflicted” gays. Based on the suicide attempt rate, I would say many more are conflicted than you want to believe. You, of coarse would never be conflicted. But for all those less fortunate souls out there, I’m glad they have this site, if at least for the guys to help them sort this stuff out.
[/quote]
I know for a fact gay people live with conflict every day of their lives. There is nothing like having to fear for your life, safety, property, family and friends all at the same time just because you’re different. Thanks so much for the safe, loving and supportive atmosphere you and people like you have managed to create in this country for us queers.
[quote]I didn’t blame society for my behavior. Please try to keep up. You asked why I thought gay teens commited suicide at a higher rate. I offered what seems a plausible explanation besides your “Fags suck and that’s why they die” crap. Apparently you are one of those middle aged white guys, since you took it so personally.
Really? Less plausible I suppose than gays actually being conflicted about their sexually orientation? Wonder why that seems to be an issue for others and yet something you seem to have no clue about? Sorry, but the facts would also indicate that being unsure about one’s sexual orientation is also a very plausible reason for the high suicide rate.
[/quote]
The question, Mr. Not-Able-to-Keep-Up, is why they would be so conflicted over their sexual orientation. This culture is one of the most sexually conflicted ones in all history. We really want it but preacher said it’s evil so what do we do? Hate the fags cuz God REALLY hates that shit. You know how sexual harassment legislature refers to the creation of a hostile environment? Well guess what. People like you have created a thouroughly gay hostile environment in this country. Again, thanks so much.
[quote]As far as the “fags such…” comment. I have no idea what you are talking about. But it does appear you get some comfort from believing that I feel that way.
[/quote]
Is it that you just don’t read the posts or is it that you don’t comprehend what is written?
[quote]So your clearly informed opinion is that I am gay because I fear men. Not that I like women. That’s why I train in male dominated dojos and why I joined the Army and went to war. Because I am scared. Not because women are hot or anything. Right. Because I would date someone who would rape me, if I were straight. Truly you have a dizzying intellect.
I didn’t mean you fear men, I said that there could be some trauma involving a man or men that was the issue. No, doesn’t sound like you fear men. Sounds like you want to be one.
[/quote]
You just could not help yourself, could you? You try so hard to be good, but you just could not resist a little gay bashing. Such a cute little homophobe. And again, if you don’t understand why I like women, you probably have never been with one. Poor guy.
[quote]So one website and approx 200 respondents from that same website makes it scientific. Ever heard of peer reviewed studies? Not to mention it is pretty clear this website is for people with internal conflicts with their homosexuality and it is exclusively addressed to men. What has that to do with those who are confortable with their sexuality or women?
Does one’s comfort with their own behavior determine if those behaviors are right or wrong? If a killer, child molester, some one who cheats on their taxes, wants to have sex with animals, etc. feels totally great about their behavior, does that then make it acceptable?
[/quote]
Seriously, do you actually read what is written or are you just having an argument with an imaginary opponent? It would be nice if you could stay on task.
[quote]Fortunately, society as a whole has determined what is and isn’t acceptable. Each special interest or deviant group (deviant from general society) does not get to set the rules. So one own comfort with their behavior has little to do with whether society as a whole will support that behavior.
[/quote]
Yeah, society. Always right, that society. Society determined women could not vote and blacks were less human than whites and children could be beaten and exploited and wives were chattel. Let’s see, what other wonderful things has society supported? So much to choose from…
[quote]I personally could care less about any religious institution. If marriage were about religion, people couldn’t get married in Vegas wedding chapels or at Justices of the Peace. So no denigration to religious institutions would be done to marriage that has not already been done by heterosexuals. The right to marry someone of the opposite sex is not guaranteed in any of our founding documents, yet you assume that you have the right to marry anyone you want to marry. As a citizen I believe I should have the same right to marry the person of my choice. I could care less if it recieves religious sanction as long as it is legally protected. I don’t care if it’s called marriage or howling at the moon in matching outfit.
First, you have the right to marry any guy you want to. That is the only criteria for marriage set from its DOCUMENTED historical origin. That is still the criteria today. So what you want is for society to agree to change those parameters to include same sex. Well, since the majority of people support those parameters I wouldn’t count on them changing all to soon.
[/quote]
Really. What DOCUMENTED historical origin would that be? And please try to stay focused. I am a lesbian. I don’t want to marry a guy. I want to marry my girlfriend. Therefore, I am not being given the same rights because I cannot marry the person of my choice. I believe freedom of choice is what this free country is all about.
[quote]Now if you want some legal arrangement that allows you to visit your partner in the hospital, get insurance benefits, wear each others clothes, etc. I don’t really care. Go for it. But marriage, not going to happen.
[/quote]
Gee, thanks for your permission to be fully human.
[quote]Heh, you should reread your own posts.
Maybe you should be the one rereading. Don’t recall ever calling you stupid.
[/quote]
You can’t call me stupid because I am not. I can call you stupid because you are.
[quote]Again with comparing gay people to child molesters. And calling me a liberal. Oh, the pain. Will I ever recover. It is your own responses and attitudes that make me think you’ve got a real issue here. Oh and being gay is a sexual preference not a lifestyle unless you are assuming that the millions of gay people in the world are all living exactly the same way. You know, like there is only one hetero lifestyle.
Now who’s confused? I thought you said you were gay from a child? That would indicate you are genetically gay. Now you say it’s a “sexual preference”. Perhaps you are more conflicted than you realize?
[/quote]
What in hell are you talking about here? How does the phrase “sexual preference” preclude genetics or biology? This sort of thing is what leads me to use the adjective “stupid” when referring to you. If you don’t want to be called stupid, quit saying stupid things.
[quote]Comparing gays to child molesters is reasonable as mostly it is same sex (men to boys) and they also feel totally comfortable with their behavior, as you do. They both are also deviant in terms of society and are considered a choice by most. And like pedophilia, the gay sex acts are still illegal in most all US States. So they are almost identical in all ways accept for the age of the participants.
[/quote]
You are remarkably adept at being completely and utterly wrong about everything you say. Here are some things to help on the path to enlightenment:
http://www.yellodyno.com/html/child_molester_stats.html
http://www.youth.org/loco/PERSONProject/Resources/ResearchStudies/molestation.html
http://www.womenofsubstance.org/sexabuse.htm
In 1995, local child protective service agencies identified 126,000 children who were victims of either substantiated or indicated sexual abuse; of these, 75% were girls. Nearly 30% of child victims were between the ages of 4 and 7.
Source: Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, Child Maltreatment, 1995
Apparently, girls are victimized at least as often as boys and almost all sex offenders are men. So what does that say about men in general? Statistically men commit more crimes of all sorts than women so maybe we should compare all men to rapists, pedophiles, murderers, child molesters, etc. Maybe men should not be allowed to marry or adopt children or buy guns or hell, walk freely until all the testosterone has been somehow leached from their bodies. I mean, if we’re to follow your logic, that is.
[quote]However, in the Gay March on Washington about 10 years ago, one of the “demands” that was made by the leaders of the March was to lower the age of statutory rape. So looks like many of the gays want most all the same things as child molesters. So comparing the two is reasonable as they are very alike in many ways.
[/quote]
Sorry, but you are not allowed to pull bullshit straight out of your ass and have it accepted as truth. The leaders of the March never “demanded” that the statutory rape age limit be reduced. Gay people and pedophiles are no more the same than say straight men are the same as pedophiles. Unless of course we were to go by the statistics of the USDOJ and other reporting agencies. You are being hoist on your own petard.
[quote]If you were to do any reading in the psychology field, you would learn that humans often have very hostile reactions to things that they fear. They fear those things because they think it means something about them. So I would certainly not be surprised to find any number of legislators who have fantasies about children passing laws against child molestation. Just like closeted gay legislators voting against gay marriage.
Who said that anyone fears gays? I’m sure they fear the results of the gay lifestyle working into the hetero population like HIV, but other than that fear would not be an accurate description. More like disgust or indignation. Again, I know it supposed to help to believe that those who disagree with your sexual behavior fear you somehow, but that is not really accurate.
[/quote]
I like how you keep trying to 'splain your reactions to gay people. YOu know, you too tough and manly to admit you fear the queers, so it’s really disgust or indignance because those two things have nothing to do with fear. I think fear is a totally accurate word in this case. Why would you even concern yourself with it and spend so much time worrying about it on the Internet, if you weren’t at least a little, teeny-tiny bit afraid?
Hey lorisco, if AIDS was sent by God to punish gays why did He let it get into the straight population? Would that be intelligent design?
Ole!
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
There won’t ever be any studies which prove that gayness causes an early grave, because it doesn’t.[/quote]
That is what you would like to believe because it fits your liberal wonder land of happy thoughts. Unfortunately, however that is not the case:
“The median age of death for homosexuals, however, was virtually the same nationwide–and, overall, less than 2% survived to old age. If AIDS was the cause of death, the median age was 39. For the 829 gays who died of something other than AIDS, the median age of death was 42, and 9% died old. The 163 lesbians had a median age of death of 44, and 20% died old”
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet3.html
Darn those pesky little facts!
They just keep popping up to shoot down your liberal wonderland of fiction regarding homosexuality.
[quote]HIV will cause an early death. Getting tied to the bumper of a car and being dragged down the road will cause an early death. OD’ing on drugs will cause an early death.
Notice that these things aren’t gayness per se, they are side effects of dangerous behaviors like drug abuse and unprotected sex,[/quote]
Oh, sometimes I just hate to do it to you. It’s almost like disapointing a child at this point (I said almost):
Sunday, November 14th, 2004
"In Europe CDC Issues Alert On New Disease Infecting Gays And Bisexuals
November 1, 2004 - The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) issued an alert to health officials on October 29 on a rare venereal disease (STD) spreading through Europe among homosexual and bisexual males. The CDC believes it is just a matter of time before the disease reaches the U.S.
The disease is Lymphogranuloma Venereum (LGV), a variety of the Chlamydia trachomatis bacterium. According to the CDC, this STD rarely occurs in industrialized nations but has appeared in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, and Sweden.
LGV has increased dramatically in the Netherlands, which typically has less than five cases a year. During the 17 months preceding September, 2004, the nation had diagnosed 92 cases. Thirty of these cases occurred in 2003 and 62 during 2004.
Some of the following was taken from CDC. All information is well documented. It seems that legitimizing homosexual practice may not lead to a better healthier society.
While all of the facts are disturbing, here are some that seem to refute your argument that only a small “subculture” of gays are overly promiscuous:
- A.P. Bell and M.S. Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 perc
True enough, but she will also miss out on the potential for a happy marriage with a good man. She misses out on having children of her own and all the other good things that come from having such a relationship.
But you keep that wacky liberal logic going…(eye roll).
[quote]I’m thinking just fine for myself, thank you very much.
[/quote]
You are not even close my friend! You have swallowed the liberal pill! Gulp! “Weeeeee…everything should be fair and equal but I don’t have one good reason in the world to say this…la la la la.”
[quote]Do you have anything original to bring here besides what some people with an agenda have interpreted the bible to mean? Since we are thinking for ourselves and whatnot, let’s go hog-wild!
[/quote]
I have given you facts from the Bible, which you reject. Facts from polls and actual ballot measures which you say mean nothing. Facts from the CDC and other healt studies which you also dismiss.
It is you that has nothing to bring to this debate! And at this point everyone knows it. I’m just going to hang in this thread and continue to tell all who want to read it, the facts!
[quote]I have contact with gays every single day and night. I have shared what I have seen and experienced in the real world here, and you are stuck quoting HIV statistics like that has a damn thing to do with the personal worth and “deservingness” of my roommate and her girlfriend; my co-worker here in the lab, her “wife”, and their daughter; or some of the nurses upstairs and in the ER, some of the techs in various departments, or one of the administrators that I know about.
[/quote]
Standing on my chair and applauding. You know this may come as a shock to you but others know gay people too. Your little anecdotal experiences are quaint, but mean very very little compared to the reality of the facts and figures that I have brought to this debate.
[quote]Is our marriage tradition that fragile and weak? I don’t think so. If we are any kind of badasses at all, then we will not flinch from extending a hand to our gay neighbors and treating their love relationships as equal to our own.
[/quote]
Their “love relationships” lol join the “love connection.” “Hook up with that special someone- same sex? No problem here at the LOOOOVE relationship connection…” lol…Sorry you’re just so goofy lately that I have to add a little of my own nonsense. Besides facts mean nothing to you so why not have fun…
I give you solid facts, tradition, thousands of years of social mores, health statistics etc.
You give me the “LOOOOVE RELATIONSHIP CONNECTION” LMAO…I’m falling down laughing right now…I usually don’t do this but I’m showing your latest post to a few of my buddies and my wife. I just have to…please forgive me Wahahahahaha…
Okay back to the debate:
Marriage is not for people of the same gender. An instution becomes strong because it represents something! To bend it and shape it to any sort of form that the latest social liberals demand strengthens nothing!
There you go again quoting a few facts out of your little world-LOL
Your gay friends are okay so the entire freaking world is fine…wahahah you are killing me today LMAO…
Think about this: If you put a large degree of faith in the few facts that you see why not put even more faith in those who compile a great amount of facts? Those who have access to lots and lots of gay people seem to have a better handle on it than you do.
You close your eyes to reality because it just does not fit your expectations. Your little world is fine so those nasty old facts can’t be right. LOL-
(shaking head) I’m not one to name call but quite honestly you are genuinely goofy.
Please post back to me with some research about how AIDS, STD’s, suicide rates, depression and anxiety problems effect gays less than the rest of the population then you will actually still be in this debate.
Otherwise, my friend, you come up lacking!
lothario:
I want to apologize for laughing at you in my last post. While it was all in good fun, I don’t want anyone to get the idea that this is a laughing matter. Also, I know that you are very passionate about this subject and care a great deal about your friends. Everyone should have a friend like lothario!
With that said let me one more time show you piece by piece why the homosexual lifestyle is literally killing good people, just like your friends:
"Risky Sexual Behavior on the Rise Among Homosexuals. Despite two decades of intensive efforts to educate homosexuals against the dangers of acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) and other stds, the incidence of unsafe sexual practices that often result in various diseases is on the rise.
Note: The Center for Disease Control is a government institution. Not some right wing gay hating organization. They study health trends and statistics world wide in order to attempt to foresee the various disease’s that might be either already prevalent, or could become prevalent in the United States.
I posted only a few statistics here as there is no reason to overwhelm you with facts as I have in earlier posts. Simply review these few facts and give me an honest comment on them:
"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), from 1994 to 1997 the proportion of homosexuals reporting having had anal sex increased from 57.6 percent to 61.2 percent, while the percentage of those reporting “always” using condoms declined from 69.6 percent to 60 percent.
Homosexuals Failing to Disclose Their HIV Status to Sex Partners
A study presented July 13, 2000 at the XIII International aids Conference in Durban, South Africa disclosed that a significant number of homosexual and bisexual men with hiv “continue to engage in unprotected sex with people who have no idea they could be contracting HIV.”[4] Researchers from the University of California, San Francisco found that thirty-six percent of homosexuals engaging in unprotected oral, anal, failed to disclose that they were HIV positive to casual sex partners.
A CDC report revealed that, in 1997, 45 percent of homosexuals reporting having had unprotected anal intercourse during the previous six months did not know the HIV serostatus of all their sex partners. Even more alarming, among those who reported having had unprotected anal intercourse and multiple partners, 68 percent did not know the HIV serostatus of their partners."
The above means that people just like your friends are engaging in risky, potentially death defying behavior! They are not containing the potential for AIDS and STD’s, they are spreading it!
This is in fact killing them at a higher rate than the national average. How can anyone possibly consider this a good thing? And if it is not considered a good thing then why would anyone want to promote such a thing if not merely for the sake of social liberalism and political correctness?
But there’s more…
Zeb,
Don’t you think most heterosexuals engage in more risky behavior before they get married than after? If you are really worried about homosexuals putting themselves at risk, why not encourage them to enter into monogamous relationships by giving them the same incentives heterosexuals have?
[quote]doogie wrote:
Zeb,
If you are really worried about homosexuals putting themselves at risk, why not encourage them to enter into monogamous relationships by giving them the same incentives heterosexuals have?[/quote]
I’m glad you brought that up doogie!
"In The Male Couple, authors David P. McWhirter and Andrew M. Mattison reported that in a study of a hundred-fifty-six males in homosexual relationships lasting from one to thirty-seven years,
Only seven couples have a totally exclusive sexual relationship, and these men all have been together for less than five years.
Stated another way, all couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships.
In Male and Female Homosexuality, M. Saghir and E. Robins found that the average male homosexual live-in relationship lasts between two and three years.
Unhealthy Aspects of “Monogamous” Homosexual Relationships. Even those homosexual relationships that are loosely termed “monogamous” do not necessarily result in healthier behavior.
The journal AIDS reported that men involved in relationships engaged in anal intercourse and oral-anal intercourse with greater frequency than those without a steady partner.[15] Anal intercourse has been linked to a host of bacterial and parasitical sexually transmitted diseases, including AIDS.
The exclusivity of the relationship did not diminish the incidence of unhealthy sexual acts, which are commonplace among homosexuals. An English study published in the same issue of the journal AIDS concurred, finding that most “unsafe” sex acts among homosexuals occur in steady relationships."
The statistics reflect a serious problem which transcends age as well:
“In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al., found that only 2.7 percent claimed to have had sex with one partner only. The most common response, given by 21.6 percent of the respondents, was of having a hundred-one to five hundred lifetime sex partners.”
Instead of pacifying the homosexual community why not actually try to help them?
Is runaway social liberalism and political correctness more important than the health and well being of this group of people?
And there’s more…
.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
Y’know, the only people I know who care as much about gay guys as Zeb does…are gay guys.
Closet case, Zebbie?[/quote]
Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
lothario, my original answer to this statement was inadequate in light of yet more hard evidence that disputes your anecdotal experiences:
“A study in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence examined conflict and violence in lesbian relationships. The researchers found that 90 percent of the lesbians surveyed had been recipients of one or more acts of verbal aggression from their intimate partners during the year prior to this study, with 31 percent reporting one or more incidents of physical abuse.[69]”
90% report verbal abuse, while 31% report actual physical abuse!
“In a survey of 1,099 lesbians, the Journal of Social Service Research found that “slightly more than half of the [lesbians] reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner. The most frequently indicated forms of abuse were verbal/emotional/psychological abuse and combined physical-psychological abuse.”[70]”
Over half of lesbians are abused by their female lover in the above poll! Not at all a pretty domestic scene…
Note that good pollsters like Zogby and Gallop can determine the next President of the United States by polling about 1000 people!
However, it is not simply lesbians who lead a more difficult life. Gay men have it very difficult too. How anyone can read these statistics and not feel sorry for these folks I don’t know:
"In their book Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence,D. Island and P. Letellier report that “the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population.[71]”
You say that heterosexual relationships are violent too? Not nearly as violent as homosexual relationships according to the following statistics by "The Bureau
of Justice Statistics (U.S. Department of Justice). Again, not some right wing nut job group who wants to gay bash.
"Compare the Low Rate of Intimate Partner Violence within Marriage. Homosexual and lesbian relationships are far more violent than are traditional married households:
The Bureau of Justice Statistics (U.S. Department of Justice) reports that married women in traditional families experience the lowest rate of violence compared with women in other types of relationships.[72]"
The above would prove your initial statement at the top of this page to be quite false indeed!
Just about every credible source agrees on the subject:
"A report by the Medical Institute for Sexual Health concurred,
It should be noted that most studies of family violence do not differentiate between married and unmarried partner status. Studies that do make these distinctions have found that marriage relationships tend to have the least intimate partner violence when compared to cohabiting or dating relationships.[73]"
Married couples suffer LEAST amount of domestic violence!
Gay “couples” suffer the MOST amount of domestic violence!
It’s time to stop the political correct madness that has swept the nation and actually help this group! We cannot help them by encouraging them to continue in a life of physical and mental pain!
But there is more…
[quote]WMD wrote:
I know for a fact gay people live with conflict every day of their lives. There is nothing like having to fear for your life, safety, property, family and friends all at the same time just because you’re different. Thanks so much for the safe, loving and supportive atmosphere you and people like you have managed to create in this country for us queers.
[/quote]
Why do you assume someone that doesn’t agree with you will also try and hurt you and destroy your property?
Of coarse it has to be that gays are conflicted because of society not accepting them. It couldn’t be that they are actually not sure of their choices? I guess when they had sexual identify disorder in the DSM (look it up) the American Psychiatric Association didn’t know what they were talking about. Sure, it was societies fault.
Sounds like a personal issue. I don’t know anyone who is conflicted about their sexual orientation. In the right context sex is fine. They problem comes from when you feel you need to act out every sexual impulse you have at the exact time you have it. So what you call conflicted I call self control and being a human, as apposed to an animal.
What was a gay bash? The fact that in nearly all gay relationships someone chooses the feminine role and the other the masculine role. Funny how that mimics a natural male/female relationship. So because I indicated that from your posts you clearly have chosen the masculine role, that is bashing? If you didn’t want that known you shouldn’t have gone on about all the male dominated things you do.
And now you want to add sexual deviation to the list. Nice!
The bible is a historical document and has been proven accurate using carbon dating and the Dead Sea scrolls.
The criteria set by the bible was a man and woman for marriage. You want that criteria changed to be also same sex. So you don’t want equal rights, you want new special rights. And unfortunately, you are correct. This country is becoming all about special interest rights at the expense of the majority.
Wow. You think marriage proves you are human. You have some issues!
Now that was mature.
Well my dear, the definition of “preference” is:
a. The selecting of someone or something over another or others.
b. The right or chance to so choose.
c. Someone or something so chosen. (See Synonyms - choice).
So a preference is a choice. If it is a choice, that means you can choose not to have sex with woman. That means it is not genetic. Being genetic would indicate that there was no choice in the matter. So that is why a choice would preclude genetic or biology. Perhaps you should buy yourself a dictionary so you actulay know what the words mean that you are writing.
Once again you don’t seem to get it. I never stated that gays were or as child molesters. I stated that their lifestyle is very close to the same thing in terms of society. Once again, anal sex and oral sex as done on same sex is illegal in most States. The gay sexual practices are deviant to the rest of society; so are child molesters. Both have been shown to cause physiological trauma or issues. Etc…
So gay sexual practices are similar to child molesters in many ways. That doesn’t mean gays are molesters or molesters gay. It just means they both are negative aspects of society in a similar way.
I don’t want to stand by a let the moral fabric of our society be torn down by you and others like you. It’s one thing to do what you want behind closed doors. But it’s entirely another thing to force your deviant views on society and state they must accept your preference.
[quote]
Hey lorisco, if AIDS was sent by God to punish gays why did He let it get into the straight population? Would that be intelligent design?
Ole![/quote]
You just think of that or did someone help you?
So since HIV in the hetero population came from gay guys, why is that God’s fault? Gay guys giving blood is how children get HIV. So how would you want God to prevent that? Wipe out all gays so they can’t hurt heretos?
Hey WMD, why is AIDS almost exclusively confined to the gay population and only gets into the hertero population by gays?
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Y’know, the only people I know who care as much about gay guys as Zeb does…are gay guys.
Closet case, Zebbie?
Evil triumphs when good people do nothing. [/quote]
All right, I’ll bite…what in the name of sweet stinky fuck does that mean?
[quote]harris447 wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Y’know, the only people I know who care as much about gay guys as Zeb does…are gay guys.
Closet case, Zebbie?
Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
All right, I’ll bite…what in the name of sweet stinky fuck does that mean?[/quote]
It means that the reason Zeb is spending time talking about this issue is not because he is gay or fears gays. It is because he values the current morals of society and doesn’t want them to change. So he is a good man doing something about it.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Y’know, the only people I know who care as much about gay guys as Zeb does…are gay guys.
Closet case, Zebbie?
Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
All right, I’ll bite…what in the name of sweet stinky fuck does that mean?
It means that the reason Zeb is spending time talking about this issue is not because he is gay or fears gays. It is because he values the current morals of society and doesn’t want them to change. So he is a good man doing something about it.
[/quote]
No…he’s a religious nut arguing on the internet that an entire class of people are second class citizens.
But, you were close.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Y’know, the only people I know who care as much about gay guys as Zeb does…are gay guys.
Closet case, Zebbie?
Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
All right, I’ll bite…what in the name of sweet stinky fuck does that mean?
It means that the reason Zeb is spending time talking about this issue is not because he is gay or fears gays. It is because he values the current morals of society and doesn’t want them to change. So he is a good man doing something about it.
No…he’s a religious nut arguing on the internet that an entire class of people are second class citizens.
But, you were close.
[/quote]
More hate speech from the social liberals…(shaking head). You guys just never learn do you?
You know harris, I’m thinking you are an atheist (If I’m wrong I apologize) and I can respect that. I never once called you a Godless nut ball did I? Simply because I happen to be a Christian does not make me a “religious nut.”
If so there are about 2.1 billion other “nuts” in the world. And I’ll take their company over yours any day.
furthermore, if you have kept up with this legnthy thread you can see that we have left the topic of religion many posts ago.
Statistics, figures, poll numbers, referendum results, tradition, social mores and yes religion back up my position.
But I guess you always have your hate speech.