[quote]ZEB wrote:
WMD wrote:
ZEB wrote:
We have seen that there is no reason to sanction gay marraige in this country. We began the debate on the Bible and it went from there into other areas, namely tradition, science, politics etc.
I now see that the debate is veering back to the Bible. The same old falsehoods which were thrown out early in the thread and refuted are being dusted off and thrown back in the mix.
You want to get back to the Bible…okay if you wish.
WMD wrote:
Think on this: When the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 by the
Romans, it made many of the holiness and observation rules in Leviticus moot. Thus people are not condemned for not going to the Temple to make sacrifice and atonement, because there is no Temple. Also it would seem that other aspects of the holiness code are no longer applicable, like eating shellfish, wearing cloth of two different materials, shaving the hair around the temples, touching menstruating women, etc. Why is it then that homosexuals continue to be condemned by Christians? Where is the verse that says “Choose 1 from column A and 2 from column B and thou shalt be holy”? When did it become okay for all you moral absolutists to pick and choose which aspects of Biblical law to follow?
I look forward to your response.
WMD
You have gotten caught before trying to pit the Old Testament against the New Testament. It was pointed out quite clearly exactly where homosexuality has been forbidden in the New Testament.
You don’t like the answer but it’s very clear. Allow me to post them again for you:
Rom 1:26
Rom 1:31
1 Cor 6:9
Col 3:5
1 Tim 1:10
2 Tim 3:3
The above are six direct scriptual passages which speak against homosexuality! I know you don’t like them you want to twist and turn their meaning, and will try no doubt. However, that never works.
Now let me ask you a question:
where in the New Testament does the Bible promote homosexuality? If it was an accepted practice then you would think that it would be found somewhere.
Marriage is mentioned in over 60 Bible verses in the New Testament. Not one time do any of theme ever refer to a someone marrying another of the same gender. However there are many that refer to one man one woman! That in addition to the “anti-homosexual” passages listed above makes a pretty clear case aginst homosexual marriage, based upon the Bible.
All you have to do is be logical. Christ spoke of repenting from your sin. Sex outside of marriage was considered sin. Do you think that he or any of the Apostles would have promted sex between two people of the same gender? Especially in light of the fact that there was no “gay marriage?”
Your arguments for gay marriage are weak to begin with. When you bring the Bible into the argument you lose even more points.
Now, could we get back to debating homosexal marriage aside from the Bible?
If homosexuality was such a hot issue, why does Jesus never speak of it?
This is almost the standard line for all those who really really want the Bible to be pro homosexuality. However, it holds no weight!
Why didn’t Jesus speak of pedophiles?
Why didn’t Jesus speak of date rape?
Why didn’t Jesus speak of bestiality?
Why didn’t Jesus speak of a hundred things that were considered sins?
I think it probably had something to do with not spending time on the obvious!
However we do have many scriptural references which denounce homosexuality. I’ll post them again for you since you seemed to ignore them last time around:
Rom 1:26
Rom 1:31
1 Cor 6:9
Col 3:5
1 Tim 1:10
2 Tim 3:3
Again, (as I stated in my last post) why would Jesus promote an activity which was obviously outside of marriage when in fact it was sin to even have sex with someone of the opposite sex outside of marriage.
Think girl think!
What we have seen is that you espouse and support a profound misunderstanding of scripture and pretty much every thing I have ever written.
No, actually your desire to want gay marriage to be a long standing accepted practice has made you blind to the reality of the scriptures, or you are playing a game.
The Bible offers no definitions of marriage, merely some examples.
Mark 10:6,7,8,9:
“But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one. Therefore what God has joined together let no man separate.”
The above seems pretty darn clear to me. There are other verses just as powerful, do you want them?
Now show me where Jesus speaks about a “man leaving his father and mother and being joined with another man.” No, I guess you can’t show me that verse because it does not exist. And nothing even close to that exists!
Where are all those “pro-homosexual” verses you were going to come up with?
You can’t even see modern stable gay couples; am I to be surprised you can’t see them in the Bible?
If you are alleging that there are specific examples of the Bible (specifically the New Testament, after Christs arrival-as that is the subject) touting homosexual relationships I think you need to post the exact scripture which states that specifically.
Just as I have posted the specific anti-homosexual language in the New Testament. And then pointed out how Jesus Christ talks about marriage between one man and one woman.
Again, and maybe for the 4th time, please post some scripture which states that homosexuality was well accepted.
My explanations of your sin (meaning to err or go astray) regarding your misunderstanding of scripture go completely unnoticed by you. YOu are nothing if not consistent. You can post your misunderstandings all day long; they remain misunderstandings.
Firstly, you failed (miserably I might add) to point out even one inconsistencey in what I have posted regarding the Bible. The fact that you want there to be an acceptance of a practice that was simply not accepted is a very large blind spot for you! And for that I’m sorry.
When you can read Greek and Hebrew, get back to me. Not that it will make any difference. Your own prejudice places the scales on your eyes and you cannot see the truth.
I can read some Greek and some Hebrew. However, the good part is I don’t have to! I can rely on the thousands of qualified Biblical interpreters who have dedicated their lives to the interpretation of ancient scriptures.
Very well intended men and women have looked closely at the ancient texts. Are they all narrow minded? Everyone one of them? Or are you wrong? Hmm…I know which way I’m leaning 
I will remind you once again that every single credible interpretation of the Bible agrees that those six verses posted above are “anti-homosexual behavior.” Do you want me to post the many, many Bible interpretations, or do you want to check back with a former post that I have written which mentions many of them.
You are the one out in the cold with your pro homosexual biased interpretations. It’s okay to be politically correct in the modern world. You can make all sorts of organizations become “pro gay” through the twisting and turning of “what’s fair” in a modern society. But you just can’t do that with the Bible. I know that bothers you and those who want to twist the scripture. However, everytime they try they will fail, just as you have done on this thread!
Your reasons for being against gay marriage are weak and lame. You know nothing about gay people or homosexuality, beside what you have read on truly dubious websites, such as Focus on the Family.
Well time to face facts: No one knows why people are gay! Maybe we need to find that out first huh?
You assert that gay marriage will turn society on it’s head without a shred of evidence.
(clears throat) for the last time, I am not the one who needs “evidence.” You are the one who needs to make a compelling argument as to why gay marriage should be allowed. The fact that over 70% of the populace (77% in a Texas vote recently) are against gay marriage is because your side has not given any compelling reasons why this practice should be sanctioned.
They have failed, just as you have on this thread to give quality reasons why gay marriage needs to be sanctioned.
You assert that marriage is a 5000 year old institution, as though there was no marriage prior to say the appearance of Egypt and Sumer and as though marriage has not undergone many evolutions in that time. Your understanding of social history is superficial at best.
I do know that changing a 5000+ year old institution for about 1% of the population without good reasons given is a bad idea. And since you have given no compelling evidence to the contrary the status quo should not change.
I figure that you are not the person you claim to be. You seem weak and easily threatened by people that have never caused you any harm.
Thank you for being consistent! The Queen of mean takes the debate to a personal level once again (old but still funny).
If you can’t win the debate on facts (and you have none), then attack personally. Are you alone much of the time?
Perhaps you need to study the Bible more closely, especially Matthew Chapters 6 and 7, entire.
Matthew Chapters 6 & 7 do not address homosexuality in any way shape or form. But then you know that (I hope). The inference that we should not judge others is not lost. However, pointing out where the scripture states that homosexuality is wrong, is not a judgement on anyone. It is a Biblical reference made in a debate regarding sinful actions (according to the Bible). You want badly to attach the buzz words of the social left regarding this topic. “Hate” “judgemental” “narrow minded.” But alis none qualify here, at least not to those who have actually read my many posts on the topic.
(By the way that should tell those who are on the fence regarding this topic something. If the social liberals cannot use attack words their argument falls short, as they have no facts!)
The Bible never states that you should hate anyone for committing homosexual acts. Nor does it state you should hate anyone for being a sinner. In fact, the message is contrary to this: love the sinner!
However, Christ does say to turn away from sin-That means repent. Um…don’t do it anymore…Get it yet?
The Bible came back into the argument because of another poster and I responded to him. You simply cannot resist interacting with me. I find your obsession with me scary and unhealthy.
I know you don’t want to debate me on this issue. Seeing the stance that you have taken, I don’t blame you. But, if you post something as erroneous as you have, it simply calls out for a good strong denunciation. That I have done and I’m happy
The fact that you assume an “obsession” that does not exist based upon our debate on this thread is odd. But then you have to somehow attempt to degrade. After all that is what social liberals do best…when they are losing the argument! Hopefully you are kidding…which by the way missed the mark anyway…
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You are a very perverse fellow, ZEB. You say you can read some Greek and some hebrew, yet you only use one definition of malakoi, when the LSJ presents about five, of which effeminate is the furthest down the list, indicating that it is the least used meaning. You say qadesh means man but Strongs Hebrew Concordance 6945 lists it as male temple prostitute, in Egyptian myth she is listed as a minor syncretized deity imported from Syria, the city of Qadesh meant holy one or holy ground (because it was a sacred site to the Hittites), so apparently it can have more than one meaning. The “experts” you rely on are letting their prejudices show through.
I conduct biblical research at the University of Texas. The people who hired me are smarter and more knowledgable on the subject than you. So am I. Most of your objections to gay people and gay marriage are based upon your religious views, which reflect a very rigid and mistaken point of view, based further upon centuries of prejudice and misunderstanding. Yes Zeb, I think it is quite possible for those experts you rely on so much for you opinions to be wrong. You know, like how so many people have misunderstandings about steroids and supplements, that would take, ahem, an act of God to change.
This idea you have that you have to provide no evidence for your arguments is really weird. If you have a position, some factual evidence to support it is probably in order, that is, if you really want to make a point.
It’s funny that you accuse me of personal attacks, not that I deny doing so. But you seem to think insulting and belittling my intelligence, lingustic skills and my opinions, are somehow not personal attacks. And your assertion that you don’t hate anybody or judge anybody is hilarious. You have a huge problem with gay people. Be a man and admit it.
You are quite right when you say I don’t want to debate you; it’s like teaching a pig to sing. It is a waste of time. You have made up your mind that there are no other possible interpretations of these scriptures.
The bottom line for me, apart from any Biblical issue, is that your religious beliefs are not my problem. They are not anyone else’s problem but yours. If gay people are citizens of this country, paying taxes, serving in the military or on juries, then they deserve the exact same freedom to choose their partners and have their relationships protected by law. If you think that gay marriage is wrong, then don’t enter into a gay marriage. No one is trying to make you gay. Neither you nor all the other people who agree with you have a right to interfere, approve, disapprove or anything else. It is none of your business who marries who. It shouldn’t even be put to a vote. It should just be a given that all our citizens are treated the same. Don’t tell me they have the same rights, since it is quite obvious they do not.
Your obsession with me is almost cute.
Almost.
WMD